RatDog

Just a bit of a heads up for you Vintage Air owners.

I got my Vintage Air system in 2012. The systems back then used a solenoid-operated heater control valve. There were lots of problems with these valves overheating and melting which is what happened to mine.

VA redesigned the valve sometime last year to a 3-wire servo operated mechanism which I put in my car last August. The other day a racket started coming from the new valve. I called VA and, sure enough, these new designs are having problems, too. They sent me a new valve at no charge which I just installed in my car.




Original solenoid-operated valve. Note the melted housing and wire. The green wire used to be attached to a terminal next to the white wire but the whole thing melted completely off the case.




Guts of the defective replacement servo-operated valve




Close up of the defective replacement servo-operated valve. Note the worm gear barely touching the round gear teeth and how the gear teeth are chewed away.

Frankie the Fink

Yeah Steve. Mike Coletta and I had a conversation about the early valves. Seems they had full time power to them that taxed the valve. Can you change it out in the engine bay? I do not want to mess with that evaporator. !

RatDog

Frankie - I think VA has had problems with their valves from the beginning. I think they first used a vacuum operated valve, then the solenoid, then the servo. My solenoid version failed and then my replacement servo failed after 6 months. The VA tech guy tells me they've had other reported failures of the new servo version.

I've included a photo below of all the parts included in the kit to do the 2-wire solenoid conversion to the 3-wire servo. It's pretty easy to do but you have to pull your glove box to rework some of the wiring back there. Fortunately, the 3-wire connector plug (the black plug in the photo with the white, red and blue wires) is on the engine side of the firewall so it's an easy 10 minute job if you have to replace your new valve with another one.

The kit was $48 plus $14.62 shipping and is Item Number 461173. I had to pay for the first replacement but they sent me the 2nd replacement for free since I'd only had it for 6 months.




Good luck,
-- Steve

6T7L71CPE

Steve,
If the A/C works without the valve wiring attached, I would leave it off. Replace it with a brass valve from Lowes/HD or Autozone and turn it manually as needed during season change.

RatDog

Thanks, Robert. That's my plan if this 3rd valve doesn't work. It's just discouraging to spend so much money for an A/C system and end up with a part that doesn't work. At least the A/C works flawlessly which is most important in FL.

Hope you guys had a good trip home.

-- Steve

mrg

Steve ..
Did the servo control valve that failed see a lot of cycling? .. Only 6 months use doesn't sound encouraging. I installed VA in my car this past summer. The system came with the servo type heater control valve.

Maybe some servo control valves will, or won't fail. Wonder how these valves will hold up over the long term. .. .
John

RatDog

Hey John,

I barely used the control valve at all. I don't drive my car a lot and it has been pretty mild here in FL since September when I put it in. I'm guessing I turned it on maybe half a dozen times, just to see if it was working.

It does say "Made in China" inside .

Turn your key to Accessories, open your hood, and listen to the valve, close up. It makes a fast "clicking" sound when it goes bad. Mine got so bad that I could hear it from the driver seat with the hood closed. As soon as I told the VA tech guy it was making noise, he told me that it shouldn't make any noise at all and he would send me a replacement. If yours makes any noise, call up VA and see if you can get a new one for free since you haven't had your's very long.

-- Steve

wmf62

this is the heater control valve I use, it has a separate control **** and is separate from the a/c. BUT, darn if I can remember where I got it; I know it was from one of the a/c vendors...
Bill

6T7L71CPE

Steve,
Trip went well, great meeting you and Anne.
Thanks

Frankie the Fink

I read the Vintage Air harness modification instructions for installing the new heater control valve that you emailed me Steve. Not all that bad; just have to be careful not to ruin any connector terminals juggling things around. Anyway, I'm not sure if I should just let things ride or do this upgrade. I'll prob let things ride for now I think. I think Vintage Air is one of the better vendors I've dealt with.

They are on constantly driven to improve their product and its a stellar upgrade for our cars.... I'm beyond pleased with the A/C system in my '63....even if the NCRS isn't...

RatDog

Frankie, if your valve is operating properly, I'd leave it alone and save the $60+ until if/when you have to replace it. Keep in mind that the replacement I got with the new design went bad as well. Just keep an eye on yours. The clue for me was seeing the green wire dangling down with melted plastic all over the end of it.

What I forgot to mention in my original post is that my replacement servo valve ended up running all of the time, even with the engine off and the key out of the ignition. Had to unplug the wires to the valve or disconnect the battery to get it to stop. I believe the solenoid versions were also failing because they were getting power full-time. Could the heater control switch or something else be causing these things to fail?

-- Steve

Frankie the Fink

Its the one bad design piece of the VA system IMO. They need to take a holistic approach and revamp the whole heater operation IMO.

One question Steve - do you run the heater per the VA instructions. E.g. with the venting control **** placed 1/2 way between floor vents and defroster ?

I don't feel ANYthing when I do that and always run it through the center console side vents and dash nozzles, just like the A/C.

RatDog

Frankie, I've never positioned that RH control **** anywhere other than full counterclockwise whether using heat or A/C. However, I rarely use heat.

It may be an unassociated problem but in the summer when I'm running the A/C, I sometimes feel hot air coming in from behind the dash area. I thought maybe I had some firewall openings allowing engine heat into the cabin. I found and plugged a few small ones but even using a bright light in a dark garage I can't find anything else. I wonder if the system is delivering heat when it shouldn't be. I didn't install the VA system myself so I'm not totally familiar with how it operates and don't know if that's even possible.

What I don't like is the fact that the replacement servo valve motor was continuing to run when the key was out of the ignition. I'm going to unplug the new one from the harness during the summer months. If this one fails, I may just take Robert's advice and get a manually-controlled valve.

-- Steve

Frankie the Fink

I'll check my setup today...I also don't want some non-essential component running with the key in the OFF/LOCK position. I haven't noticed heat under the dash from my Gen IV system however. I installed my own system though and put foil insulation over every spot I could..

RatDog

With your solenoid valve, you may not know if it's taking power or not when the key is off. It may not make noise like the motor and gear setup on the new valve .

-- Steve

mrg

Thanks, Steve. .. Other than cycling a number of times to ckeck operation between heat and AC after the the installation was completed the heater has been used only once.

The heater in my car doesn't see much use. If a servo valve failure is imminent, I guess we'll see. IIRC, the VA warranty period is 3 years.

The manual valve option sounds feasible too.

I need to move the VA ground wiring from the negative battery terminal to the disconnect switch contact terminal. As it is now, even with battery power disconnected via the disconnect switch the VA blower motor can still be turned on with the motor control switch.

RatDog

I'm ressurecting my thread from last year to report that my 3rd heater control valve has failed. Opened the hood the other day and I could hear the telltail buzzing sound (ignition off, key in my pocket). Took the car for a drive and A/C worked fine but no heat. Here in FL, I could live with that but I'm not comfortable with a constant buzzing sound coming from electrical parts in the engine compartment when the ignition is off.

So, I called Vintage Air and they are sending me another heater control valve for free. I just bought a $7 manual valve that I was going to use but since I've already made the upgrade to VA's new 3-wire servo unit when my original solenoid unit melted from overheating, it's a simple 10 minute plug and play to put this 4th unit in so I'll give their replacement one more try.

Even with this annoyance, I really like the Vintage Air system. The heater control valve is a minor component and there are a number of workarounds if you just get tired of swapping out the heater control units every year. But this component is definitely a weak part in an otherwise excellent system. Their original design was vacuum operated. Then they went to solenoid. Now they're using a servo operated design. All of them have had problems. Lots on the Web about it.

I went ahead and paid for my first replacement ($48 + $12 shipping) but VA has given me 2 free replacements since that one without me having to ask so kudos to them for standing behind their product.

Anyway, keep an eye on your heater control valve. If it's the solenoid type, and it fails, it will get extremely hot and may melt the case (see my first post). If it's the servo type, and it fails, it will making a buzzing sound (could be loud or faint) with your ignition off. Another clue is if you don't get hot air from the heater. It appears that when the valve fails, it fails closed, they fail closed. Don't hesitate to call VA if you have a problem. They are very aware of the issue.

Steve

59BlueSilver

IMO, you shouldn't have had to pay for the first replacement since there were known failures. I installed my VA system this past winter, so far, so good. I'm wondering what the other makers use. If VA can't get it together, could you use a Classic Air switch for instance?

Frankie the Fink

IIRC Vintage Air sources the part from a third party. Prob all the aftermarket A/C guys do. They said none of the third parties made valves that weren't powered full time when this came up a couple of years back.

RatDog

I worded things badly in my posting and have fixed it. I didn't have to pay for the first replacement so I'm not casting aspersions on VA for that. The system's warranty had run out so I just went to their website, saw that they had a redesigned heater valve, and ordered it. I never discussed the first failure with them. VA is a good company. Had I talked to them about the failure, it's likely they would have replaced it at no cost just like they've done for the subsequent failed units.