Track alignments and rear caster
08-04-2016, 10:28 AM
#1
Drifting
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Track alignments and rear caster
Were heading to the Glen again in a few weeks to test our oil cooler heat sink fins in some hotter temps hopefully and have some fun! Aside from that we've done many track alignment changes especially with rear caster with our 15 Z07. My question has anyone out there tried some different settings with rear caster, toe and camber and what were your experiences? I have settled on certain numbers I like but don't want to miss out on what could be better.
Does anyone have specific info on the Probst Z06 test ( I think at Road Atlanta) back in late 14 where the car had poor handling issues until the rear caster was changed?
I had a thread similar to this that has fizzled out so I hope this catches a few new eyeballs.
Does anyone have specific info on the Probst Z06 test ( I think at Road Atlanta) back in late 14 where the car had poor handling issues until the rear caster was changed?
I had a thread similar to this that has fizzled out so I hope this catches a few new eyeballs.
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RS4EVA (08-04-2016)
Popular Reply
08-04-2016, 04:37 PM
Safety Car
Mike Levitas is a Daytona 24 hour winner and owns TPC Racing. Mike/TPC also preps the Porsche 997.2 911T I race.
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
08-04-2016, 11:31 AM
#2
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depends on the track of course. maybe it would help if you said you want specific setup for Watkins Glen vs Road Atlanta or wherever you're running.
08-04-2016, 02:21 PM
#3
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The Pobst test that resulted in the Z06 rear caster discussion was at Laguna Seca. When he did the test at Road Atlanta he either set a record or came close to setting a record but the oil overheated in 4 laps. Of course the car was being run hard all day as it was a press review event and several other people had driven it hard before he got in the car.
Once GM reset the rear caster he redid the Laguna Seca test and said the car was vastly improved. However, a lot of that is lost in the noise about the Z06 being a beast to handle. I haven't found it to be that way. Although I haven't had the rear caster checked mine does well in turns and I have no issues with it.
Bill
Once GM reset the rear caster he redid the Laguna Seca test and said the car was vastly improved. However, a lot of that is lost in the noise about the Z06 being a beast to handle. I haven't found it to be that way. Although I haven't had the rear caster checked mine does well in turns and I have no issues with it.
Bill
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08-04-2016, 04:37 PM
#4
Safety Car
Mike Levitas is a Daytona 24 hour winner and owns TPC Racing. Mike/TPC also preps the Porsche 997.2 911T I race.
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Last edited by rikhek; 08-04-2016 at 04:48 PM.
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08-04-2016, 05:11 PM
#5
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Thanks for posting, so really the only real difference here is one degree of positive rear caster?
08-04-2016, 05:17 PM
#6
Drifting
Mike Levitas is a Daytona 24 hour winner and owns TPC Racing. Mike/TPC also preps the Porsche 997.2 911T I race.
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
08-04-2016, 05:31 PM
#8
Race Director
I'm confused!
(not hard to do to me!
)
I know +/- signs are not universal for toe settings.
You specify negative toe both front and rear, and say both are toe-OUT settings.
Many of us set up toe-out up front for better turn-in, but I haven't heard anybody else EVER advocate toe-out for the rear!!
Most all of us have always used a little toe-IN for the rear, which is generally specified for better stability of the rear end during hard accel when tracking out of turns.
So....Did I read your specs correctly???
(not hard to do to me!)I know +/- signs are not universal for toe settings.
You specify negative toe both front and rear, and say both are toe-OUT settings.
Many of us set up toe-out up front for better turn-in, but I haven't heard anybody else EVER advocate toe-out for the rear!!
Most all of us have always used a little toe-IN for the rear, which is generally specified for better stability of the rear end during hard accel when tracking out of turns.
So....Did I read your specs correctly???
Last edited by BEZ06; 10-18-2016 at 07:32 PM.
08-04-2016, 05:34 PM
#9
Safety Car
Stolen from Wiki:
In automotive engineering, toe, also known as tracking,[1] is the symmetric angle that each wheel makes with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, as a function of static geometry, and kinematic and compliant effects. This can be contrasted with steer, which is the antisymmetric angle, i.e. both wheels point to the left or right, in parallel (roughly). Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centerline of the vehicle. Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing towards the centerline of the vehicle.[2] Toe can be measured in linear units, at the front of the tire, or as an angular deflection.
In automotive engineering, toe, also known as tracking,[1] is the symmetric angle that each wheel makes with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, as a function of static geometry, and kinematic and compliant effects. This can be contrasted with steer, which is the antisymmetric angle, i.e. both wheels point to the left or right, in parallel (roughly). Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centerline of the vehicle. Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing towards the centerline of the vehicle.[2] Toe can be measured in linear units, at the front of the tire, or as an angular deflection.
Last edited by rikhek; 08-04-2016 at 05:35 PM.
08-04-2016, 05:41 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: Syracuse-Central Square New York Winer of the all Corvette race WGI 8/23!
Posts: 1,857
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Mike Levitas is a Daytona 24 hour winner and owns TPC Racing. Mike/TPC also preps the Porsche 997.2 911T I race.
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Odd I don't remember any washers in the rear UCA's and we could still get -2.0 camber out of it. I will look closer this time.
Thanks again!
08-04-2016, 05:42 PM
#11
Safety Car
I'm confused! (not hard to do to me!)
I know +/- signs are not universal for toe settings, but negative toe is usually toe-IN.
You specify negative toe both front and rear, but say both are toe-OUT settings.
Many of us set up toe-out up front for better turn-in, but I haven't heard anybody else ever advocate toe-out for the rear!!
Most all of us have always used a little toe-IN for the rear, which is generally specified for better stability of the rear end during hard accel when tracking out of turns.
So....Did I read your specs correctly???
(not hard to do to me!)I know +/- signs are not universal for toe settings, but negative toe is usually toe-IN.
You specify negative toe both front and rear, but say both are toe-OUT settings.
Many of us set up toe-out up front for better turn-in, but I haven't heard anybody else ever advocate toe-out for the rear!!
Most all of us have always used a little toe-IN for the rear, which is generally specified for better stability of the rear end during hard accel when tracking out of turns.
So....Did I read your specs correctly???
2. We've found the car like a bit of toe out (i.e., negative) on both front and rear. Works pretty well with the rear at zero toe but a little better with the tad of negative (i.e., out) in the rear as well. I'm not the expert Mike/TPC is but I think the positive caster lets the car work better with this little bit of negative rear toe.
Last edited by rikhek; 08-04-2016 at 07:18 PM.
08-04-2016, 05:50 PM
#12
Race Director
Stolen from Wiki:
In automotive engineering, toe, also known as tracking,[1] is the symmetric angle that each wheel makes with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, as a function of static geometry, and kinematic and compliant effects. This can be contrasted with steer, which is the antisymmetric angle, i.e. both wheels point to the left or right, in parallel (roughly). Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centerline of the vehicle. Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing towards the centerline of the vehicle.[2] Toe can be measured in linear units, at the front of the tire, or as an angular deflection.
In automotive engineering, toe, also known as tracking,[1] is the symmetric angle that each wheel makes with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, as a function of static geometry, and kinematic and compliant effects. This can be contrasted with steer, which is the antisymmetric angle, i.e. both wheels point to the left or right, in parallel (roughly). Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centerline of the vehicle. Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing towards the centerline of the vehicle.[2] Toe can be measured in linear units, at the front of the tire, or as an angular deflection.
All I want to confirm is that you are advocating toe-OUT for the rear, is that correct?
If so, that's the first time I've ever heard of that. But if that's what the C7 likes, then I guess a bunch of us will now try it out.
.
08-04-2016, 05:54 PM
#13
Safety Car
Rick thanks this is exactly what I was looking for. I've been using that front set up most of the time. The big difference here is on the rear going to toe out rather than toe in as I have been doing. I've been running 1.5 positive rear caster so will try backing it off to 1.0. Did Mike mention that the rear of the C7s toe in during compression as rear caster is increased? We found this testing.
Odd I don't remember any washers in the rear UCA's and we could still get -2.0 camber out of it. I will look closer this time.
Thanks again!
Odd I don't remember any washers in the rear UCA's and we could still get -2.0 camber out of it. I will look closer this time.
Thanks again!
Regarding the washers in the rear, Mike wanted the eccentrics centered. He had one other reason for pulling a washer from the rear as well as the front even though you can get the desired camber leaving them in. I just don't remember for certain.
When he returns my call I'll have him contribute to this post. I think he might be at Summit Point tweaking the DSC Sport Suspension controller he's developing/tuning for our cars.
Last edited by rikhek; 08-04-2016 at 06:19 PM.
08-04-2016, 06:32 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
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Ride height?
Was this setup done with stock ride height and zo7 stock suspension and msrc shocks (stock) thanks
mike levitas is a daytona 24 hour winner and owns tpc racing. Mike/tpc also preps the porsche 997.2 911t i race.
Mike is also a big time corvette guy and owns a c7 z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing god given talent on suspension setup.
He has done extensive suspension testing with his c7z. Mike, his friend randy pobst and i agree the setup from the factory is terrible, dangerous and scary when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to mike as well. Mike is a better driver than i and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the gm suggested track alignment when driven hard he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided totally transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which mike informed me gave him and 7 others with c7zs 1-2 seconds per lap without the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. Front: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. Rear: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights must be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. do not go less than 0.8. laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time corvette guy and owns a c7 z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing god given talent on suspension setup.
He has done extensive suspension testing with his c7z. Mike, his friend randy pobst and i agree the setup from the factory is terrible, dangerous and scary when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to mike as well. Mike is a better driver than i and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the gm suggested track alignment when driven hard he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided totally transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which mike informed me gave him and 7 others with c7zs 1-2 seconds per lap without the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. Front: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. Rear: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights must be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. do not go less than 0.8. laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
hope this helps.
Rick
08-04-2016, 06:35 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Apex NC
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I also would like to know this...
sadly have to go back to stock alignment
Last edited by AVETTE; 08-04-2016 at 06:36 PM.
08-04-2016, 06:46 PM
#17
Team Owner
Mike Levitas is a Daytona 24 hour winner and owns TPC Racing. Mike/TPC also preps the Porsche 997.2 911T I race.
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
Mike is also a big time Corvette guy and owns a C7 Z06. Mike has mad skills on setting up the suspension on a car. He has an amazing God given talent on suspension setup.
He has done EXTENSIVE suspension testing with his C7Z. Mike, his friend Randy Pobst and I agree the setup from the factory is TERRIBLE, DANGEROUS and SCARY when driven 10/10s. Mike's been close friends with Randy for decades. The car exhibits snap oversteer without any warning. Happened to me resulting in a bad situation and to Mike as well. Mike is a better driver than I and was able to catch his but told me is scared the hell out of him. The car is so bad even with the GM suggested track alignment WHEN DRIVEN HARD he was going to sell his after only 300 miles.
Instead, he invested many hours working on the suspension setup. Just last week he informed me he got it to where it's his favorite car to drive of the may cars he owns. He shared his setup with me and it is remarkable. I was scared to drive the car at 10/10 prior to using his setup. What he provided TOTALLY transformed my car. I can't believe it's the same vehicle. So easy to drive with the setup he told me to go with it's unreal. It's really hard for me to put into words the transformation. It truly is game changing.
The biggest problem he found was in the rear caster. Other changes were also warranted but the rear caster is the biggest factor in making the car dangerous/undriveable at speed.
Here's the hot setup which Mike informed me gave him and 7 others with C7Zs 1-2 seconds per lap WITHOUT the car wanting to snap oversteer:
1. Pull 1 washer from behind the attachment point of both upper control arms, front and rear. Total of 16 washers as there are 16 bolts.
2. FRONT: -2.0 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm. Most alignment racks measure in degrees. The -0.5mm equals right at -0.03 to -0.04 degrees depending on tire diameter. Mine is set at -0.03 degrees each corner.
3. REAR: -1.7 camber and -0.5mm toe each side for total toe out of -1.0mm.
4. The rear uprights MUST be laid back 0.8 - 1.0 degree of positive caster. The 0.8 works best on just about every car they tested. DO NOT go less than 0.8. Laid back/positive caster means the top of the shock is laid back closer towards the rear of the car relative to the bottom of the shock.
Hope this helps.
Rick
I can vouch for this 100%
In the fall I plan on getting with my shop to apply these settings
08-04-2016, 07:15 PM
#18
Safety Car
I just got off the phone with Mike. He's at the IMSA Road America race racing his Porsche Cup car. He just got out of the car and told me he ran a 2:16.99!!!
He said he'd answer questions presented and provide explanations to his set-up when he gets back to the hotel from the track.
I wish I knew one tenth of what he does on setting up a car. Hell, I don't even speak the same language....
He said he'd answer questions presented and provide explanations to his set-up when he gets back to the hotel from the track.
I wish I knew one tenth of what he does on setting up a car. Hell, I don't even speak the same language....
Last edited by rikhek; 08-04-2016 at 07:17 PM.
08-04-2016, 09:02 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: Syracuse-Central Square New York Winer of the all Corvette race WGI 8/23!
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If you drive your car to the track like I do, sometimes 6 hours away, I have had TERRIBLE tire life with the inside fronts becoming UNUSABLE and cording within 2 thousand miles... Not an option for me as my pockets aren't THAT deep, this is with the GM Track alignment per the manual, loved how it handled but this ruined two track days for me when the very hard to find on same day tires weren't available in 100 mile radius on the weekend, this happened to me TWICE.. clearly guys with trailers and spare tires are in a different league
sadly have to go back to stock alignment
sadly have to go back to stock alignment
Surprised you have abnormal tire wear with the small amount of toe out we are running in the front. Even on the street we set ours with some out. Something else may be going on. I drive 2 hours each way with a full track alignment with Cup's and no problems.
Looking forward to comments from Mike as we will be dialing our Z07 in late next week for a 2 day run at WGI after the NASCAR boys rip it up!