theplatinumog

I installed the cooling rings on my z51 for my 3rd and 4th track days this year. It was annoying and I never want to do it again. I heard the newest z51's don't use those stupid rings.

My third HPDE this year went well. I ran a 1:52 at laguna seca. The car felt fine on the way to the hotel, and fine on the way to the track for my 4th day.

However, I noticed right away my brake rotor (s) had to be warped. I thought maybe I could push through it but quickly found the wear indicator for the pads making noise. I packed it up early the 4th day.

I was obviously over braking still. I really thought I was being smoother, but apparently not.

So what now? I need new pads. I am NOT opposed to switching pads for track and street driving. I think I can handle it. Just have to be careful pushing the pistons back into the calipers right? Careful not to blow brake fluid out the master.

What 2 sets of pads would you guys recommend? I would love to ditch the brake dust during street driving. I am new to track driving, what is a good first track pad for me? What about the rotors? Just get the newer style OEM ones? Or are there rotors that will work better with the track pads?

Please help. I am supposed to run again March of 10th! I need to get these things ordered!

64drvr

Id consider kns or girodisc rings, xp12 front pads, xp10 rear pads, bobcats for street, and srf fluid.

spearfish25

I run SRF fluid. I didn't like the Hawk DTC pads in terms of rotor wear but they were decent on track. I'm trying Raybestos pads next. You should absolutely swap to track pads for your hpdes. It's simple and you won't hurt the pistons. Use the pads to push the pistons in before sliding them out the back of the caliper. I use a channel lock and a piece of rubber to squeeze the front pads and push the pistons in without marring the caliper finish. The rear are small enough to easily squeeze in with your hands.

Floridamark

I run SRF fluid. XP10 Front, XP8 rear. Loved the setup at Homestead this weekend. But I am still running the MPSS. When I get my 19's and go NT01's, Pads will go XP12,XP10.

spearfish25

Used to run Carbotechs on a previous car. They didn't play nice with swapping back to street pads and deposits were often a problem. Decided I'm never going back.

dfettero

Check out the Power Stop Z26 pads. DOT rated GG for coefficient of friction. Stock Brembo Pads are rated FF. Very Clean. Be sure to bleed (activate) the ABS system when you upgrade to high temp brake fluid (eg RBF 600).

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

For pads Carbotech XP12 front XP10 rear and the Bobcat 1521 for the street. The beauty of the Carbotech pads is all there compounds are compatible with each other. So, you can run the 1521 for street low dust still performs and than track days just swap pads and go no re-bedding no cleaning rotors nothing just swap pads and go. Make sure you have GOOD FLUID..

I will be happy to help you get set up with the pads and fluid call me at 216-780-8825, email me or order direct at http://ampdautosport.com/brake-pads/corvette/ use promo code z28 at check out.

Part #
F: CT1001 R: CT1718

theplatinumog

Stock rotors?

leadville1

My feeling is the stock set up is not a very good option. I have the Wilwood kit, the calipers are much better quality, no dust boots, lighter and pads are very inexpensive (I really like the Wilwood/Raybestos track pads). I think you can get the whole front kit for $1600 and that includes much better rotors with aluminum hats, and replaceable friction rings.

I have driven at high speed tracks like COTA and Road America and I can tell you these are some of the best brakes I have ever felt on a car. They have never faded and are consistent.

I use 660 Brake Fluid from Stoptech.

Bill Dearborn

There are a lot of options available. However, unless you are planning on becoming a frequent participant I suggest choosing pads that will hold up a little better and staying with a stock size replacement rotor so you don't have to mess with the cooling rings. I don't know how fast a 1:52 lap is around Laguna Seca but you should probably have more than 4 track days under your belt before making major changes to the car. Look for something that will reduce the hassle of prepping the car and that will let you comfortably drive to and from the track. I suspect you are using stock pads and moving up to a better pad may give you a few more days of durability but that may be at a higher price. I like to consider things on a cost per day basis and then factor in how much extra I will pay to reduce hassle and time wasted.

You say you are over braking. That is hard for us to know sitting on the other end of an internet connection. So let me ask you some questions. When you approach a corner are you hitting the brake hard and then finding you need to let off the brake to get to the turn in or apex? Are you standing on the brakes and barely able to slow the car before you make the turn in? Do you feel you are running through corners slower than other people on track? Have you had an instructor riding with you?

If you are unsure of yourself or the car in the corner that can lead to reduced cornering speed and subsequently more braking to get down to the speed you feel safe at. Without riding with you and feeling the car it is extremely hard to advise on your next steps but an instructor may be able to assist you. It may be nothing more than providing reassurance and boosting your confidence. I have sat in a student's car running through a series of turns saying more gas, more gas, more gas and the student saying he was nervous about going that fast and I said to him I am riding with you, if I didn't feel safe telling you to go faster I wouldn't be telling you to go faster. Those comments seemed to give him the confidence to push the pedal more and pick up his speed.

Here are my thoughts about changes you should make to the car based on Instructor Level Driving of a C6Z06 on street tires and trying to keep costs low.

First Step: Upgrade to a rotor that doesn't need the cooling rings. Look for something that isn't exotic or really high in price. The idea is to get something that eliminates the cooling rings and maybe gives you a day or so more track time before cracking.

Second Step: Move up to a pad similar to the Hawk HP Plus. They are a low level track pad that can only operate up to about 800 deg F before overheating and smearing the rotor with pad deposits. I used them for a couple of years on my C6Z and overheated them all the time with really bad deposits and lots of thumping. But, they were low cost and lasted about twice the time the stock pads did and as long as I took it easy on them I could keep from over heating them too much.

Step Three: Get more cooling air to the brakes. I don't know if you have done anything but I suggest adding the new brake duct kit that GM introduced for the 2017 Z06s. I don't think the wheel blockers will fit with your wheels/calipers but the plastic ducts should fit within the control arms.

Now some Instructor Comments:

Step Four: The next time you go to the track you should be thinking about cornering speed. Try to keep max speed down on the straights so you aren't don't need to use the brakes hard and practice on carrying more speed into the corner. It is easier to do this if you aren't riding the brake hard trying to slow the car. Keep an eye on the mirror and point the faster cars by. On late point bys you may be able to follow a faster driver's line through a corner to see if they are doing something different than you are in the corner. Of course if they are running slicks Vs your street tires that won't work quite as well but it can still give you a hint.

Step Five: Once you feel you have cornering speed and line down then start upping the speed into the corner. Most tracks have some sort of signage or display of cones alongside the track for you to judge distance to the corner. With a clear track behind you start at the furthest one out from the corner and hit the brakes as hard as you can and find out where that brings you to the corner entry speed you know you can handle. If you aren't to the turn in point yet. Add 50 ft more of full throttle before hitting the brakes and try again. Repeat shortening the distance until you are at your corner entry speed at the turn in point. Remember each time you shorten your distance by 50 ft your speed will increase some due to staying wide open longer.

Spring Mountain coaches trail braking in a way that I think is very good. They say to reduce brake pressure in the main braking zone and carry the brake to about 30% of the distance from the turn in point to the apex. It is very similar to the way most drivers on the street enter a freeway entrance ramp. They already know how to trail brake they just don't know what to do when they get to the apex. Spring Mountain has their instructors coach this right from the first classroom session and track session.

Another thing to do is to go for an Instructor Ride Along and see how they drive the track. Ask them questions as about what they are doing and why.

Also remember to Look Ahead! Practice Wide Screen Vision it really helps you to place the car and anticipate the next actions you will be taking with the steering, throttle and brakes.

Those are some things to work on and to help you learn some good habits. There are a lot more but things have to be taken in small steps. I have been instructing novices to advanced level drivers (including several that were better than me) for 12 years now and I have only run into one natural over all of those years. A complete Novice who had never been on a track before but by the time he had sat through two classrooms and ran two track sessions to learn the line and where the flaggers were it was time to move him up a level since he was so much smoother, better and faster than everybody else in the group. By the time the second day finished he had moved up another level.

Bill

theplatinumog

My first two instructors were named Bill. I had to go back and make sure it was not you... it was not.

This seems more my speed. I am at the doctors office right now, but when I have more time I will re-read and respond with a bunch of questions.

I asked for a demo ride Saturday and got set up with this pos 944. His cornering speeds were high but on the front straight he pointed 3 people by. It was that front straight I was trying to study that day.

I mentioned this to someone working and got set up with a coach who put a camera on my windshield and "followed" me in a spec miata. I put followed in quotes because he was clearly faster than me. I tried to point this miata by but he wouldn't take it. I didn't know it was the instructor until after the session. Anyways, he seemed to be pretty impressed with my line, especially approaching the corkscrew where the 2 911's in front of me both went too far to the rigHTC.

He did mention that I was turning in a little late in a couple places. Though we both agree that late is better than early for someone still trying to figure things out.

The biggest take away was that I could be using wwwaayyy more of the track. Especially on track out. This makes me think my cornering speeds could be higher, like you said.

I got moved out of A group and permission to solo my first day. I ran with A's again and then one day and a half this weekend with the B group. I think I am still comfortably in the bottom half of the B's

0Todd TCE

Great post from Bill as always.

About the only thing I think he left out: learn what a "cool down lap" really means. I spent 5yrs working at LS. Take the flag and aside from T2 you should be able to get back to the pit without much brake other than the corkscrew. SLOW DOWN..not to the point of being dangerous of course but let those brakes cool.

The root cause of "warped rotors" remains over-heated pads. Do your best to stay off them coming back to your pit area. And for cryin'-out-loud don't put on the parking brake! (I'm amazed at this still sometimes.) Get some wheel chocks! lol

theplatinumog

Step one: sounds like the new OEM ones that don't need the rings is for me.

Step two: I nend you to explain to me how this is a good idea. "used them for a couple of years on my C6Z and overheated them all the time with really bad deposits and lots of thumping. But, they were low cost and lasted about twice the time the stock pads did and as long as I took it easy on them I could keep from over heating them too much."

Why would you want to to deal with really bad deposits? This sounds like an issue. I am still trying to drive my corvette around between track days, wouldn't these deposits effect daily driving? Lots of thumping?... on track? Yikes. I guess I don't understand why you would want these 800 degree pads? Is it to practice not heating them up? Is it so they don't get too hot and warp the rotor?

Bill, thanks for your time. I am really bit by the bug and plan on running 20+ track days this year.

Bill Dearborn

Sorry, about making an unclear statement. I meant as an instructor I was abusing the hell out of the pads and although I was overheating them driving them at that level they were working a large part of the time. Drop that level off a little bit and they hold up better than stock pads and don't cost all that much compared to other light duty track pads.

What I was trying to emphasize is they more than likely will work for you and not cost a lot of money. Again, look at what works and the cost per day. This sport of ours can be more expensive than a crack addiction.

I also liked Cobalt CR-S pads which with a 1200 deg working temperature worked better than the HP Plus but are a lot more expensive. Wilwood H pads are a full track pad, damned good and reasonable in cost but I don't know whether either of those are available for your car.

When you start to run faster with R compound tires then you can move to higher level pads from any of the manufacturers although you may start to think about replacing the stock calipers some where through the process.

Bill

theplatinumog

Step 1: Newer style OEM rotors.

Step 2: How do carbotech ax6 pads sound? "range of 50°F to 1100°F" that sounds in the neighborhood. There was a set of 1521'some that only went up to 800 like ypu said. However, on their website it says it is not recommended for ANY track use. These are just 1 step up from those according to my research.

These two will at least get me back on the track next Friday.

theplatinumog

I have done nothing. I guess a zo6 grille and some kind of ducting are next?

Probably the most useful advice I have gotten since I got moved out of the beginner group. I had no in-car instruction last weekend and it looks like this may be the case frequently. What a great thing for me to work on with only needing my pdr. Will definitely doing this next time.


Step Five: Will worry about when I get there.

The look ahead advice is good too.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

AX6 is not a track pad. On this car you need at least XP8. 1521 is not a track pad either its great for street use.

theplatinumog

And that is why I asked.

Thanks for your time adam

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

If you need pads in 8 days I would get something going today.

Bill Dearborn

Here is something else to think about. When I first started doing track days in 1992 I would run 3 to 5 days per year. When I got my 97 C5 in 97 I consistently started running 5 days per year with the stock pads and rotors. I would go through a set of stock front pads every two track days but the stock rotors went three years. There weren't a lot of aftermarket offerings for the car until the 2000 season and that is when I went to an aftermarket track pad. The stock rotors that had gone through 15 track days and looked great were gone in one track day on a track that wasn't hard on brakes.

Bill