HELP, 1985 won't start
05-21-2017, 06:25 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
HELP, 1985 won't start
1985 wont start, I know there are a ton of these threads out there, pretty sure I have read most of them.
I知 not sure where to go from here. My 1985 was running fine before deciding to fix the oil leaks at the manifold and valve covers, ya ya, should have left well alone. Replaced the intake gasket, used Felpro and the Right stuff for the china wall, new felpro gaskets for the valve covers. Got new injectors from FIC. Purchased some new ARP bolts and followed the torque specs. Gas tank almost full, fuel added in March some time. no upgrades to the car.
Took good pictures during disassembly. I believe all the vacuum hoses and everything connected correctly. I replaced a couple that were brittle, some of the connectors I found were slightly different but I think they are working. Checked and no error codes.
One thing I did screw up was the distributor install. I had it marked correctly but got it screwed up for some reason. Reset to TDC with the cap between cylendars 1 and 8. Did this several times before I got it right but I知 sure its correct now. First time trying and car wouldn稚 start. Following the FSM, I checked the distributor and everything checked out ok. Making sure everything is connected when putting it back together. Dash shows RPM痴 and oil pressure over 4PSI. I知 getting spark at plugs. Making sure along the way the battery is good, had to recharge a few times. No start, got new plugs, no start. Got a noid light, no blick at injectors. Once again, followed FSM which lead me to a new ECM and now I am getting pulse to injectors. No start. Tried spaying starter fuid and got a little fire blow out of the front of the TPI. Checked the fuel pressure. Goes to 37psi but loses pressure after a minute or two after turning the car off. Following the FSM I looked for leaks at the injector and cold start injector but no gas on manifold. No fuel around the fuel pressure regulator.
Sometimes it sounds like its completely missing others not, just wont start. Sometimes I hear a puffing, releasing pressure sound while trying to start. What else should I try other than starting all over with the FSM troubleshooting?
Thanks
I知 not sure where to go from here. My 1985 was running fine before deciding to fix the oil leaks at the manifold and valve covers, ya ya, should have left well alone. Replaced the intake gasket, used Felpro and the Right stuff for the china wall, new felpro gaskets for the valve covers. Got new injectors from FIC. Purchased some new ARP bolts and followed the torque specs. Gas tank almost full, fuel added in March some time. no upgrades to the car.
Took good pictures during disassembly. I believe all the vacuum hoses and everything connected correctly. I replaced a couple that were brittle, some of the connectors I found were slightly different but I think they are working. Checked and no error codes.
One thing I did screw up was the distributor install. I had it marked correctly but got it screwed up for some reason. Reset to TDC with the cap between cylendars 1 and 8. Did this several times before I got it right but I知 sure its correct now. First time trying and car wouldn稚 start. Following the FSM, I checked the distributor and everything checked out ok. Making sure everything is connected when putting it back together. Dash shows RPM痴 and oil pressure over 4PSI. I知 getting spark at plugs. Making sure along the way the battery is good, had to recharge a few times. No start, got new plugs, no start. Got a noid light, no blick at injectors. Once again, followed FSM which lead me to a new ECM and now I am getting pulse to injectors. No start. Tried spaying starter fuid and got a little fire blow out of the front of the TPI. Checked the fuel pressure. Goes to 37psi but loses pressure after a minute or two after turning the car off. Following the FSM I looked for leaks at the injector and cold start injector but no gas on manifold. No fuel around the fuel pressure regulator.
Sometimes it sounds like its completely missing others not, just wont start. Sometimes I hear a puffing, releasing pressure sound while trying to start. What else should I try other than starting all over with the FSM troubleshooting?
Thanks
05-21-2017, 07:05 PM
#2
1985 wont start, I know there are a ton of these threads out there, pretty sure I have read most of them.
I知 not sure where to go from here. My 1985 was running fine before deciding to fix the oil leaks at the manifold and valve covers, ya ya, should have left well alone. Replaced the intake gasket, used Felpro and the Right stuff for the china wall, new felpro gaskets
for the valve covers. Got new injectors from FIC
. Purchased some new ARP bolts and followed the torque specs. Gas tank almost full, fuel added in March some time. no upgrades to the car.
Took good pictures during disassembly. I believe all the vacuum hoses and everything connected correctly. I replaced a couple that were brittle, some of the connectors I found were slightly different but I think they are working. Checked and no error codes.
One thing I did screw up was the distributor install. I had it marked correctly but got it screwed up for some reason. Reset to TDC with the cap between cylendars 1 and 8. Did this several times before I got it right but I知 sure its correct now. First time trying and car wouldn稚 start. Following the FSM, I checked the distributor and everything checked out ok. Making sure everything is connected when putting it back together. Dash shows RPM痴 and oil pressure over 4PSI. I知 getting spark at plugs. Making sure along the way the battery is good, had to recharge a few times. No start, got new plugs, no start. Got a noid light, no blick at injectors. Once again, followed FSM which lead me to a new ECM and now I am getting pulse to injectors. No start. Tried spaying starter fuid and got a little fire blow out of the front of the TPI. Checked the fuel pressure. Goes to 37psi but loses pressure after a minute or two after turning the car off. Following the FSM I looked for leaks at the injector and cold start injector but no gas on manifold. No fuel around the fuel pressure regulator.
Sometimes it sounds like its completely missing others not, just wont start. Sometimes I hear a puffing, releasing pressure sound while trying to start. What else should I try other than starting all over with the FSM troubleshooting?
Thanks
I知 not sure where to go from here. My 1985 was running fine before deciding to fix the oil leaks at the manifold and valve covers, ya ya, should have left well alone. Replaced the intake gasket, used Felpro and the Right stuff for the china wall, new felpro gaskets
for the valve covers. Got new injectors from FIC
. Purchased some new ARP bolts and followed the torque specs. Gas tank almost full, fuel added in March some time. no upgrades to the car.
Took good pictures during disassembly. I believe all the vacuum hoses and everything connected correctly. I replaced a couple that were brittle, some of the connectors I found were slightly different but I think they are working. Checked and no error codes.
One thing I did screw up was the distributor install. I had it marked correctly but got it screwed up for some reason. Reset to TDC with the cap between cylendars 1 and 8. Did this several times before I got it right but I知 sure its correct now. First time trying and car wouldn稚 start. Following the FSM, I checked the distributor and everything checked out ok. Making sure everything is connected when putting it back together. Dash shows RPM痴 and oil pressure over 4PSI. I知 getting spark at plugs. Making sure along the way the battery is good, had to recharge a few times. No start, got new plugs, no start. Got a noid light, no blick at injectors. Once again, followed FSM which lead me to a new ECM and now I am getting pulse to injectors. No start. Tried spaying starter fuid and got a little fire blow out of the front of the TPI. Checked the fuel pressure. Goes to 37psi but loses pressure after a minute or two after turning the car off. Following the FSM I looked for leaks at the injector and cold start injector but no gas on manifold. No fuel around the fuel pressure regulator.
Sometimes it sounds like its completely missing others not, just wont start. Sometimes I hear a puffing, releasing pressure sound while trying to start. What else should I try other than starting all over with the FSM troubleshooting?
Thanks
05-21-2017, 09:07 PM
#3
did same thing. iws 180 off
05-21-2017, 10:07 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I have also done this to verify I had a friend hold his finger on #1 plug hole and turned engine by hand until pressure came out plug hole and stopped turning engine at 6 degrees before TDC, put dist. back in with rotor pointed directly at #1 in cap and it fired right up to set timing with timing light. Driver side front is #1.
05-22-2017, 10:34 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have also done this to verify I had a friend hold his finger on #1 plug hole and turned engine by hand until pressure came out plug hole and stopped turning engine at 6 degrees before TDC, put dist. back in with rotor pointed directly at #1 in cap and it fired right up to set timing with timing light. Driver side front is #1.
Well son of o bioch, I would have bet money I had the timing set correctly but thought I'd check based on the suggestions, and yes I was off 180 degrees. Finally got it to start for the first time since reconnecting everything including installing the new injectors. It started but then got to running rough and my son needed to press the throttle to keep going. Its cold and raining tonight, I'll try to get it running again this weekend when its a little warmer. I need to tweek the timing just a bit, had to crank the cap as far as I could one direction to get it to start.
The following 2 users liked this post by KB in CO:
Corvette Cool Guy (07-26-2019),
knikula (05-27-2017)
05-22-2017, 10:47 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Get the timing light on there, if can't adjust maybe 1 tooth off or you could rotate the wires to gain adjustment of timing, glad to here it fired. When you get close the idle will go down as it sometimes takes alot of timing to get that first fire up. Good luck.
05-22-2017, 10:57 PM
#7
Well son of o bioch, I would have bet money I had the timing set correctly but thought I'd check based on the suggestions, and yes I was off 180 degrees. Finally got it to start for the first time since reconnecting everything including installing the new injectors. It started but then got to running rough and my son needed to press the throttle to keep going. Its cold and raining tonight, I'll try to get it running again this weekend when its a little warmer. I need to tweek the timing just a bit, had to crank the cap as far as I could one direction to get it to start.
yeah, 1 tooth off perhaps. it does that spiral gear shift when u drop it in that can mess with a guy.
let us know
05-23-2017, 08:17 AM
#8
05-26-2017, 05:54 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I moved the sparkplug wires over on the distributor cap. Sounds better and will start but soon dies. Looking for other causes from the FSM and discovered my MAF is most likely bad. When I removed the connector to the MAF it starts and runs although rough. Tried to clean the MAF a couple of time but no change. Then I followed the FSM troubleshooting which points to the MAF. Guess I need to find another one.
05-26-2017, 06:03 PM
#10
ok hold on there. one tooth over isnt a whole peg over on the cap i dont think. i would verify timing from scratch again and be diligent about being lined up perfectly. a piston stop can help ensure u get perfect tdc alignment.
05-26-2017, 08:02 PM
#11
If it was working before you took it apart it is probably still good. You have a bunch of disturbed wiring to the oil sensors to the maf plug , you must really make sure they are all good. I too am going to refresh manifold so I will be watching yours. Just curious if you marked dizzy and took it out without moving the crank, when you install it back how can it get 180 degrees off? If your marks line up.
Thanks
Thanks
Last edited by xrav22; 05-26-2017 at 08:04 PM.
05-27-2017, 11:10 AM
#12
Intermediate
I've had more than one GM MAF sensor die just from removing it to get to something else. If you don't have the ability to pull the codes the fact that the engine will run without the MAF plugged in is the next best sign the sensor has died.
05-27-2017, 12:25 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Well I'm pretty sure I fried my maf, plus I followed the fsm and all the connections coming to maf are good. I'll have to document all the dumb things I did along the way after I'm done.
05-27-2017, 02:36 PM
#14
there is only one way to properly index the distributor on a SBC.
with the engine at #1 TDC, compression, and the oil pump shaft in correct alignment, the distributor should be positioned squarely on the engine. the four distributor cap mounting points, should be parallel and perpendicular to the engine's CL. with the rotor pointing to the center of the LH valve cover emblem, drop the distributor to engage the drive gear - a little wiggle-giggle may be necessary. as you seat the distributor - the rotor will turn CW and end up pointing to the #1 spark plug. turn the distributor a couple degrees CCW, and secure in place - note, 3ｰ at the distributor is 6ｰ at the crank. install cap/coil - the coil connections should be approximately 90ｰ left to the CL. plug wires in the proper firing order, and everything should be good to go. base timing should end up around 4-6ｰ BTDC. it's not rocket science, just basic geometry.
edit: corrected a lifelong error in my thinking - 13 teeth on the distributor drive gear, not 12. thanks ihatebarkingdogs for pointing that out -
Last edited by Joe C; 05-29-2017 at 05:27 AM.
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KB in CO (05-28-2017)
05-29-2017, 12:00 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
05-29-2017, 05:04 AM
#17
The distributor turns 360deg for 720deg of crankshaft rotation. So if you need to move the timing 20deg on the crank, you rotate the distributor 10 degrees. Moving the plug wires on the cap one post, is a change of 90degrees at the crank. There are 13 teeth on the distributor gear, not 12. So moving the distributor 1 tooth is 55deg at the crank.
If you flip the gear 180degs on the shaft, the distributor body location will change by 13.8deg for the same timing at the crank. Ask the C2 guys with mechanical tachometer drives how important this detail can be.
If you turn the key on, have all the distributor connectors hooked up, and the timing marks on the crank aligned, you can static-set the timing fairly accurately by turning the distributor sharply CCW and listen for the fuel pump to trigger on. When the distributor triggers, the fuel pump turns on. With practice, its possible to get within a couple of degrees of where you want it to be. Disclaimer: I've never static set a coil-in-cap HEI before, I usually work with remote coil small-cap distributors, but it should still fire the fuel pump when the distributor sends a reference pulse.
If you flip the gear 180degs on the shaft, the distributor body location will change by 13.8deg for the same timing at the crank. Ask the C2 guys with mechanical tachometer drives how important this detail can be.
If you turn the key on, have all the distributor connectors hooked up, and the timing marks on the crank aligned, you can static-set the timing fairly accurately by turning the distributor sharply CCW and listen for the fuel pump to trigger on. When the distributor triggers, the fuel pump turns on. With practice, its possible to get within a couple of degrees of where you want it to be. Disclaimer: I've never static set a coil-in-cap HEI before, I usually work with remote coil small-cap distributors, but it should still fire the fuel pump when the distributor sends a reference pulse.
well, i'll be a SOB. my bad - for some reason I've always thought 12 - never counted them, just thought 12 - gone my whole life thinking this -- right now, I feel pretty stupid. (THANKS A LOT! 
)never gave any thought with flipping the drive gear, and I can see the relationship now, especially with the odd number of drive gear teeth. I've always removed and installed the gear in the original factory installed position - I can see where that could play hell with your mind, especially on a mechanical tach drive distributor.
good points and info on the "triggering the fuel pump" thing - really need to absorb what you've said.
disclaimer - I've done a few coil in cap HEI's and can usually get the timing within a degree or two with the alignment method. might try the fuel pump thing - next time - just to satisfy any curiosity, but seems it might be a bit cumbersome.
again, thanks for point out the 12/13 teeth thing - should have known better - kind of baffled why I always thought 12 -
no matter what your thinking, there is still only one way to properly index the distributor in a SBC - potato - pataato -
Last edited by Joe C; 05-29-2017 at 05:19 AM.
05-29-2017, 05:20 PM
#18
Next time you have a distributor in your hand, look at the pin hole in the gear. On one side the hole is lined up with a tooth, on the other side the hole is between two teeth.
Just to follow up: I've been messing with Chevy's for almost 50 years. I remember occasions way back when I'd remove the distributor gear for some reason, then upon reinstalling the distributor, the vacuum can would hit the manifold runner or something and I couldn't set the timing to where it was before I took the gear off the distributor. Took at least 30 years before I figured out the "odd number of teeth" thing, and that if the gear is put back on "180 out" from where it was, the body is about 14 degrees off for the same crank timing.
Most of the distributors I've worked with in recent times have a dimple on the gear under the pin hole. This dimple aligns with the rotor tip.
Just to follow up: I've been messing with Chevy's for almost 50 years. I remember occasions way back when I'd remove the distributor gear for some reason, then upon reinstalling the distributor, the vacuum can would hit the manifold runner or something and I couldn't set the timing to where it was before I took the gear off the distributor. Took at least 30 years before I figured out the "odd number of teeth" thing, and that if the gear is put back on "180 out" from where it was, the body is about 14 degrees off for the same crank timing.
Most of the distributors I've worked with in recent times have a dimple on the gear under the pin hole. This dimple aligns with the rotor tip.
same here - wrenching on SB's, on and off, since the mid 60's. can't say i'm any kind of expert though. speaking of C2/C3's, I remember working on my 69-350, and having a hell of a time getting the tach drive cable to come through the firewall, making the 90ｰ transition, and going straight in to the left side of the distributor. I had to replace the main shaft, and modified the housing for a bronze bearing for the tach drive gear to ride against. had that thing apart several times, before things fell into place perfectly - must have lucked out and installed the gear with the correct orientation. you can't believe how many I've seen that have kinks in the cables, or folks buying those 90ｰ adapter elbows. believe it or not, distributor alignment is one thing i seem to always notice when looking at SBC, either at shows, on-line pics, or anything in general.
06-02-2017, 12:47 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Me too.
Seems like some people and builders are content to just get it to start and the timing set. Proper distributor installation isn't a black-art, but takes experience and devotion to detail to make it right so guys like you and I notice that it IS "right"..
Seems like some people and builders are content to just get it to start and the timing set. Proper distributor installation isn't a black-art, but takes experience and devotion to detail to make it right so guys like you and I notice that it IS "right"..
You guys blew my mind a bit about the timing but after thinking about it for a bit I think I understand. I put the wires back to the original spots on the distributor, length of wires works better anyway, and adjusted the oil pump so that the rotor points to number one after dropping the distributor back in. I will start her up in the morning and see where I am at with timing.
06-03-2017, 12:36 AM
#20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WRL513Gx4#t=479.201
Oddly you need to click on refresh after it starts and stops I thought this was interesting.
Last edited by xrav22; 06-03-2017 at 12:38 AM.