BrianCunningham

anyone here?

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvet...-be-1796070293

SouthernSon

If you want to track a vehicle for extreme performance, talk to those that do and get their input. Amateurs not allowed. We have enough vulture lawyers in our society already. Get wise and don't blame others because of your own stupidity.

Jay_Davis

You would hate to hold anyone accountable for anything. The stupid people are the ones that blame the victim.

BmoreRnsDeep

Sounds absurd

SouthernSon

I wouldn't say I never hold others accountable but you are correct in that I probably hold myself accountable way more than another. You want a car for the street, go to GM. You want a car that gives you all day extreme track type performance, go to a specialty builder. Otherwise, be grateful GM gives us all the ability to purchase a 'platform' that enables aftermarket modifications to run extended extreme sessions on the track. Go to a performance shop to get educated. Not too many stupid people there for long.

Supercharged111

You're totally overlooking the fact that they also market the Z06 in a track day sense especially with all those Nurburgring videos. How about then denying the ever-living-hell out of the overheating issues that even the media had problems with? How about Car and Driver rating it DFL as best driver's car? Get off GM's nuts already.

jaredtxrx

Go to Chevrolet's Corvette Z06 webpage; http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar
Look at the first giant leading image used. Then read the very first line of text on that page. "A driver’s car with no equal
Z06 is a true world-class supercar. Conceived on the track and engineered alongside the C7.R race car, Z06 features a lightweight and rigid aluminum space frame, as well as a supercharged 6.2L aluminum V8 engine delivering 650 horsepower and 650 lb.-ft. of torque."

Please explain how this car was not purpose built to be driven on the race track? Hell, scroll down, the car comes with a video and data recorder and the video shown is of the car on a race track. Further, Chevrolet will warranty Corvette's when something does brake on the track.

And Chevy isn't alone. Mustang GT350 owners are going after Ford for transmissions overheating on track because unless you got the "Track Pack" the car didn't come with a transmission cooler. When you buy a GT350 (or any "ST" level car) you get a free two day HPDE course. Why? Because Ford designed the car to be driven on a racetrack.

SouthernSon

If ANYONE believes a showroom car can go out the door and head for the track without ANY modifications for extended lapping then you need to go to ANY reputable performance shop or any track day event where there are folks that own and race high HP cars. EVEN before the cars hit the tracks many experienced folks here KNEW that the supercharging would be for short sprints only. IF you don't know when to short shift, when to cool down, when to brake efficiently or maintain momentum then you WILL have problems on a hot day. This is not new stuff! Drive the Z06 on the street or take it for a few quick hot laps but DON'T expect any car to live long at full throttle and threshold braking without modifications for that extreme environment. Now, what individual salespeople told folks - I don't know. But, I and my friends know what it takes for a car to live on the track all day. Even NASCAR expects only one race out of their VERY expensive drive trains.

sunsalem

Nice...

Jay_Davis

That's nonsense. There is absolutely nothing preventing GM from building a car that has extreme track performance. What they deliver now would be perfectly fine if they didn't falsely represent it. It is not out of the realm of possibility that they could deliver the car they are advertising, its not like they are advertising capabilities which are obviously absurd.

Besides, doing better than not surviving 15 minutes with a non-professional driver under normal temperature conditions is far from expecting "extreme track performance".

SouthernSon

I doubt the argument before the court will be one of defective design or defective parts, which would be clearly more emperical, but rather one of reasonable track use vs. track abuse. I am certainly not aware of any case of precedence that has established a threshold for it. I wouldn't turn lose of any money to support the suit. If a firm is willing to take it on contingency you might see what comes of it. But, of course that is predicated upon the form of relief sought.

RACE U

[
16Z06 A8 OWNER Subscribed.


QUOTE=Jay_Davis;1594947505]That's nonsense. There is absolutely nothing preventing GM from building a car that has extreme track performance. What they deliver now would be perfectly fine if they didn't falsely represent it. It is not out of the realm of possibility that they could deliver the car they are advertising, its not like they are advertising capabilities which are obviously absurd.

Besides, doing better than not surviving 15 minutes with a non-professional driver under normal temperature conditions is far from expecting "extreme track performance".[/QUOTE]

talon95

Someone thinks this has any chance when we can't even get GM to admit they f'ed up the LS7 with all the valve guide problems???

naschmitz

GM admitted that one. I know half a dozen guys that had engines replaced under warranty by GM for on-track failures.

SouthernSon

There is no yellow brick road to the bank vault with this case. The courts may very well summarily dismiss the whole thing before trial. In which case the reputation of the Z06 will take a hit from the publicity and the owners will lose twice when they try to sell.

SouthernSon

That is true. I, too, know of those that have had engine replacements. That was a known and proven defect. However, in this case of the Z06, I would take the funds that might be spent on the lawsuit and spend it in the aftermarket to make the vehicle better able to survive an all day track event. Which is exactly what hard core trackies/racers have been doing with every model of vehicle ever made for the last century.

snow

Dont take this the wrong way but I have to disagree with you completely. No one here is saying that they want to take a 'showroom floor" vehicle and race it on a competitive level. That is a whole different ball game requiring different hardware.
I have tracked many showroom floor vehicles from Nissan 350Zs to twin turbo AMGs and never had any issues with power train over heating, may be brake fade but that is on me and not the car. In the end the vehicles performed as expected much like everyone else at the track. That is a reasonable expectation that any customer who purchases these types of vehicles would have. Go to an HPDE event have a blast with you buddies and not have to sit out or baby your car because it has a design flaw. That is not an unreasonable expectation IMHO.

SouthernSon

A design flaw or a misuse; that will be the argument. That is going to be a tough one to make. Not exactly the most tangible one that a judge can weigh. I, too, have been in a few vehicles here and there on the track including a couple of high end Ferraris; one that the owner insisted short shifting before 4500rpm and another that lost its left bank of cylinders in the first session at VIR. I do remember a Shelby GT that started spewing liquid in the engine bay after a coule of sessions. Those are not exactly discounted price automobiles. As far as the C7Z, it has phenomenal brakes (with good pads) and excellent performance programming. It is, as I stated above, a great platform to tweak with aftermarket products.

ErnieN85

we have all seen it for years.
good brakes and cooling
do not make a track car.

You need excellence in this area and US car makers are not Known for that

I have been tracking corvettes for 15 years now and have never seen a stock one hold up on cooling issues (to suit me)

Now that doesn't mean that some one with no experience with that might believe that a new Corvette would not perform like that.

as to why GM would not make an actual race car..........just one word covers that LAWYERS

SouthernSon

Thanks for the input Ernie. Personally, I now have probably $50K invested in aftermarket parts for the C5Z. I had to add tranny cooler and larger radiator when I experienced 305 degree oil and tranny warning on an 85 degree day the first summer I started tracking. I now have a forged LS6, tranzilla tranny, headers/exhaust, SKF bearings, accusump, and so much other stuff I can't remember. I had to in order to track full sessions at 10/10ths driving. However, I never once blamed it on GM. I have always been appreciative of the fact that they gave me a good starting platform and a vehicle with plenty of aftermarket support. And, of course, there are many others that feel the same as you and me. We see them every track event!