C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Oil Change Time

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-07-2017, 08:46 AM
  #1  
81c3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
 
81c3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Where Woke Goes to Die
Posts: 8,194
Received 615 Likes on 431 Posts

Default Oil Change Time

86 iron head 36k miles

I read alot of past threads where the advice is 10/30 or 10/40... Mine says 5/30 in the manual and on the fill cap.... not a word about synthetic in the manual. I dont even think synthetic was around at that time was it? I haven't had a flat tappet engine in a long time. I plan on conventional... and probably 5/30.. When I had my ZR-1 I used a Amsoil with a higher zinc content. Should I be thinking along those lines? I dont know what type of oil the PO used...
Old 07-07-2017, 09:06 AM
  #2  
Cruisinfanatic
Le Mans Master
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Cruisinfanatic's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Clifton Park, NY ..............Clearwater, FL ... 85 Original Owner
Posts: 5,750
Received 553 Likes on 432 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 81c3
86 iron head 36k miles

I read alot of past threads where the advice is 10/30 or 10/40... Mine says 5/30 in the manual and on the fill cap.... not a word about synthetic in the manual. I dont even think synthetic was around at that time was it? I haven't had a flat tappet engine in a long time. I plan on conventional... and probably 5/30.. When I had my ZR-1 I used a Amsoil with a higher zinc content. Should I be thinking along those lines? I dont know what type of oil the PO used...
Your car had dino 5/30 in it. I changed to dino 10/30 a few yrs ago from Syn 5/30 because doing so cut down on oil leaks
Old 07-07-2017, 09:12 AM
  #3  
Tom400CFI
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 21,544
Received 3,181 Likes on 2,322 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 81c3
86 iron head 36k miles

I read alot of past threads where the advice is 10/30 or 10/40... Mine says 5/30 in the manual and on the fill cap.... not a word about synthetic in the manual. I dont even think synthetic was around at that time was it? I haven't had a flat tappet engine in a long time. I plan on conventional... and probably 5/30.. When I had my ZR-1 I used a Amsoil with a higher zinc content. Should I be thinking along those lines? I dont know what type of oil the PO used...
Any oil is way better than good enough and better than most oils available in 1986....although synthetic oil definitely did exist in 1986.

Use the recommended oil or better (5w/30) and change at the proper intervals...your engine will cruise right on by 300,000 miles easy.
Old 07-07-2017, 10:18 AM
  #4  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

If you want to be over the top with a large quantity of zinc 1) Amsoil Z-Rod 10w30, if you want a good synthetic at a reasonable price with a good amount of zinc 2) Mobil 1 0w-40, if your on a budget 3) Shell Rotella 15w-40.
People who tell you the oil quality is better today don't have a clue what they are talking about. The zinc content has been on the decline since the 90s. All 20 and 30wt oils unless you get a specialized oil (Z-rod, Brad Penn) have barely half the amount of zinc a flat tappet engine requires. 40 and 50wt oils are not required to reduce the amounts of zinc.
Old 07-07-2017, 10:51 AM
  #5  
Tom400CFI
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 21,544
Received 3,181 Likes on 2,322 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
People who tell you the oil quality is better today don't have a clue what they are talking about.
Yes, yes. With my 30+ years of dealing with fleet maintenance....I have "no clue". ^ Straight from the Lube Engineer himself...right?

Here is a read for you, and I'd put way....way....WAY more stock in this guys post....than the gem that you just laid down.

My Analysis of the Use of Low Zinc (zddp) Oil in C4 Corvettes

HERE is the catalyst for that well researched and articulated post. I made the same argument back then (today's oils are way better than good enough) and after his research, the other poster Jim Rogers, agreed.

Today's oil is way better than "good enough". How long do you need an engine to last? My '96 Silverado has 296,000....HARD miles on it, yet still performs as new. How much better would it perform had I used "yesterday's oils"?


.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; 07-07-2017 at 10:57 AM.
Old 07-07-2017, 11:19 AM
  #6  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

Appearatly not. That 'article' was written in 2014 and the 20 and 30wt oils today are in the 6-700ppm zinc range. I wouldn't chance my motor with that.

Ummm FYI ill let you in on a lil secret your 96 Silverado is a ROLLER motor
Old 07-07-2017, 11:50 AM
  #7  
Tom400CFI
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 21,544
Received 3,181 Likes on 2,322 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
Appearatly not. That 'article' was written in 2014 and the 20 and 30wt oils today are in the 6-700ppm zinc range. I wouldn't chance my motor with that.

Ummm FYI ill let you in on a lil secret your 96 Silverado is a ROLLER motor
Depends on the oil you get. If you'd READ the thread, you'd have seen that ZDDP isn't the "end all" of wear protection. IOW, more doesn't necessarily equal "better". But, there are oils that have 800 ppm still. Mobil 1 "high mileage" is one that is readily available.

Sorry that I used a roller motor as one example of an engine that has lasted way longer than long enough. How about my boat; '92 Ford 351w. That's a flat tappet cam. Runs like the day it was delivered. It's 25 years old now...How long is "long enough"? How good is "good enough"? I mean...that is just one example. I manage a fleet. We have some gas/flat tappet cam trucks that date back to 1987...30 years old! Somehow...they manage to make it through each day, even on "today's" inferior oils!
Old 07-07-2017, 12:15 PM
  #8  
Joe C
Race Director
 
Joe C's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,346
Received 700 Likes on 589 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
...all 20 and 30wt oils unless you get a specialized oil (Z-rod, Brad Penn) have barely half the amount of zinc a flat tappet engine requires. 40 and 50wt oils are not required to reduce the amounts of zinc.
no flames, but i don't think you can make a blanket statement on the subject. there's more to it than just zinc, or the amount of zinc.

here's a cut and paste from bob the oil guy's site and forum. read in detail the paragraphs on the Starburst Oil Myth as it relates to zinc -

Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths. Here are some facts you may want to pass along to customers to help debunk the fiction behind these myths.

The Pennsylvania Crude Myth -- This myth is based on a misapplication of truth. In 1859, the first commercially successful oil well was drilled in Titusville, Pennsylvania.
A myth got started before World War II claiming that the only good oils were those made from pure Pennsylvania crude oil. At the time, only minimal refining was used to make engine oil from crude oil. Under these refining conditions, Pennsylvania crude oil made better engine oil than Texas crude or California crude. Today, with modern refining methods, almost any crude can be made into good engine oil.

Other engine oil myths are based on the notion that the new and the unfamiliar are somehow "bad."

The Detergent Oil Myth -- The next myth to appear is that modern detergent engine oils are bad for older engines. This one got started after World War II, when the government no longer needed all of the available detergent oil for the war effort, and detergent oil hit the market as “heavy-duty” oil.

Many pre-war cars had been driven way past their normal life, their engines were full of sludge and deposits, and the piston rings were completely worn out. Massive piston deposits were the only thing standing between merely high oil consumption and horrendous oil consumption. After a thorough purge by the new detergent oil, increased oil consumption was a possible consequence.
If detergent oils had been available to the public during the war, preventing the massive deposit buildup from occurring in the first place, this myth never would have started. Amazingly, there are still a few people today, 60 years later, who believe that they need to use non-detergent oil in their older cars. Apparently, it takes many years for an oil myth to die.

The Synthetic Oil Myth -- Then there is the myth that new engine break-in will not occur with synthetic oils. This one was apparently started by an aircraft engine manufacturer who put out a bulletin that said so. The fact is that Mobil 1 synthetic oil has been the factory-fill for many thousands of engines. Clearly, they have broken in quite well, and that should put this one to rest.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)
Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.
Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

Special thanks to GM's Techlink
- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
myth, hype, marketing, or whatever! personally, I just use a premium quality oil meeting current SN specs, and don't put a lot of thought into the zinc thing. my current - mobile1, high mileage synthetic, 10W30. my 32 year old L98 is running 160K miles on the clock. with the exception of the valves and springs, pretty much all original - bottom end, cam, lifters, bearings, valve guides, etc..

Last edited by Joe C; 07-07-2017 at 12:49 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Tom400CFI (07-07-2017)
Old 07-07-2017, 12:35 PM
  #9  
Tom400CFI
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 21,544
Received 3,181 Likes on 2,322 Posts

Default

^This.

If new engine oils aren't any good...if "I wouldn't chance my motor with that." -where legitimate....then where are the failures? Where are the worn out motors? In fact, engines today are lasting longer than they have in the history of internal combustion engines. Why? Because technology and a century of refining experience allow today's oils to be better than ever.

OP can pick any quality brand he wants, used the recommended weight, change at proper intervals....and cruise right on by 300k.
Old 07-07-2017, 01:47 PM
  #10  
confab
Melting Slicks
 
confab's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes on 295 Posts
Default

I use the Mobil One High Mileage. Phosphorous/Zinc is 800/900 PPM.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf
The following users liked this post:
Tom400CFI (07-07-2017)
Old 07-07-2017, 01:49 PM
  #11  
81c3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
 
81c3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Where Woke Goes to Die
Posts: 8,194
Received 615 Likes on 431 Posts

Default

Thanks for the input guys... Interesting read on the ZDP... I'm going with a dino 5w30.
Old 07-07-2017, 02:36 PM
  #12  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

I go Mobil 1 0w-40 1000/1100 Phosphorus/Zinc on these old motors.
Old 07-07-2017, 02:43 PM
  #13  
confab
Melting Slicks
 
confab's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes on 295 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
I go Mobil 1 0w-40 1000/1100 Phosphorus/Zinc on these old motors.
I have a truly stupid but honest question.. How can something be zero viscosity?

You get it hot and it turns to steam or what?
Old 07-07-2017, 02:45 PM
  #14  
81c3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
 
81c3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Where Woke Goes to Die
Posts: 8,194
Received 615 Likes on 431 Posts

Default

All Mobil 1 is synthetic correct? I don't want to use synthetic oil in this engine. It wasn't built with that in mind and it wasn't delivered to the dealer with synthetic.... and I'm not putting it in there either.... I don't know what the PO was using, but I would bet it was the less expensive option of conventional.... Don't want to upset the apple cart at this stage of the game if you know what I mean...
Old 07-07-2017, 03:03 PM
  #15  
Joe C
Race Director
 
Joe C's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,346
Received 700 Likes on 589 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 81c3
All Mobil 1 is synthetic correct? I don't want to use synthetic oil in this engine. It wasn't built with that in mind and it wasn't delivered to the dealer with synthetic.... and I'm not putting it in there either.... I don't know what the PO was using, but I would bet it was the less expensive option of conventional.... Don't want to upset the apple cart at this stage of the game if you know what I mean...
- no need to over think the oil thing. you won't hurt anything by running 5W30 dino blend - did it for years, but in my case, 10W30. I always ran Castrol GTX 10W30 w/ 3-4K change intervals. only recently did I switch to M1 synthetic.
Old 07-07-2017, 03:11 PM
  #16  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by confab
I have a truly stupid but honest question.. How can something be zero viscosity?

You get it hot and it turns to steam or what?
Flows easier in the cold (pour point).
Old 07-07-2017, 03:12 PM
  #17  
confab
Melting Slicks
 
confab's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes on 295 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
Flows easier in the cold (pour point).
But, zero? Isn't it failing to provide a lube cushion at that point?

Get notified of new replies

To Oil Change Time

Old 07-07-2017, 03:22 PM
  #18  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 81c3
All Mobil 1 is synthetic correct? I don't want to use synthetic oil in this engine. It wasn't built with that in mind and it wasn't delivered to the dealer with synthetic.... and I'm not putting it in there either.... I don't know what the PO was using, but I would bet it was the less expensive option of conventional.... Don't want to upset the apple cart at this stage of the game if you know what I mean...
Not all Mobil 1 is synthetic. They have various grades like other companies.
The reason the L98s came with Dino oil is because they have factory oil coolers (KC4 I believe?). In 1992 GM stopped installing oil coolers in Corvettes then guess what? YEP Mobil 1 synthetic became the factory fill.
Old 07-07-2017, 03:23 PM
  #19  
Cjunkie
Melting Slicks
 
Cjunkie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 2,170
Received 172 Likes on 134 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by confab
But, zero? Isn't it failing to provide a lube cushion at that point?
How do you mean?
Old 07-07-2017, 04:15 PM
  #20  
Tom400CFI
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 21,544
Received 3,181 Likes on 2,322 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by confab
I have a truly stupid but honest question.. How can something be zero viscosity?

You get it hot and it turns to steam or what?
It's just a rating number. It doesn't mean that the oil is as thin as break cleaner. It's just a number that is applied to the flowability of the oil at a certain temp.
The following users liked this post:
confab (07-07-2017)


Quick Reply: Oil Change Time



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 PM.