TheProsecutor

Hello,

Is anyone running an 8" mid in their door?
I am entertaining the idea of a 8" midbass in the door of my C5.
The specs for the speaker are:
2 ohms
Mounting depth 3.5"
Cutout diameter 7.125"
Bolt circle diameter is 7.75"
95dB @ 1watt/1 meter
225 watts RMS rating
Active system
Low Pass @ 2.5khz / 24db/oct
High pass @ 80hz / 24db/oct

Do you think it will fit with or without a 3/4" MDF 8" mounting ring?

racebum

it would be a bit of work. you also are missing a lot of the benefit crossing them so high. realistically a 6.5 in an enclosure will out perform an 8" in a baffle

if you have some of the older clearance morel elate 8's they are really good but really need an enclosure to shine.

i would run those at 60-65hz up if they can take it. brings more to your front stage.

very few 8s can play to 2.5khz without going wonky in the 1-2khz zone with peaks and dips. the elates are one of the few that were pretty decent in this regard.

TheProsecutor

I am considering these with 150 watts each.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...b-8-2-ohm.html

racebum

keeping them from destroying themselves is the problem with that low Q and 150w.. would 100% build them fully sealed enclosures. not a good IB driver but looks to be suited for sealed. low qts speakers are extremely particular about enclosures which again is why many car audio drivers are .4+ qts. you could take a low q driver ported but the enclosure has to be dead nuts and that largish vas tells me it's going to be at least half a cubic foot which is unrealistic for a door. run this in winisd and see what you come up with. my personal experience with low Q drivers is destroying them unless they are in well designed enclosures. this is the overlooked variable in many of the "low qts drivers should go ported" argument. with that higher vas a small sealed box literally helps keep it alive even though it's likely to produce resonance especially with that ultra light cone

your 80hz crossover thought makes sense.

the only issue with DIY in my opinion is you tend to go through a lot of speakers before you find a sound you like. it's much easier if you're all active and don't have to worry about designing a zobel to fix that impedance spike and then experimenting with what works from a theoretical start.

they are also extremely efficient which will have them potentially out running most tweeters

that low qts and just insane efficiency would have me buying just one to try it before committing if i was so inclined. highly efficient speakers aren't often the best sounding as the cones are quite light and do not dampen rear resonance waves very well

have you heard these? they make me nervous looking at them. much different than your average driver. if anything they seem more suited for use with compression or tractrix horns

a good baffle driver or partially sealed usually has a high qts and low vas which is the direct opposite of these

http://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content/...nium-SPECS.pdf

morel elate for example. just an excellent autosound driver. very well dampened cones which bring the efficiency down. a high Q low Vas design suited for baffle and or extremely small sealed enclosures.

usually when i see people bringing up this sort of thing they are inclined to experiment and often want high end sound for budget money. on occasion you can do it but it often requires some experimenting and buying multiple drivers, testing, time etc. it can be a fun hobby and it's rewarding when you get it right.

i just personally wouldn't cut up a c5 door for an experiment. you can get a 6.5 morel hybrid set from dynamic autosound if you haggle for $500. uses the good mt230 tweeter and a woofer that can take your 150w all in a 6.5" basket that requires no cutting. you also don't have to but it helps if you build them enclosures which again is easier since they are 6.5s

TheProsecutor

Yes, I am going full active. My distances are Left Tweeter 48" Left Mid 48" Right Tweeter 60" Right Mid 60" Subwoofer 24" - time delay, 1ms 1ms 0ms 0ms , 15ms on the sub due to the phase of the crossover.

02BlownZ06

If you are going with a larger driver (up to 8 inch) in the door, why not consider one of the high end 3 way component sets? You can place the woofer and mid in the door and tweeter in the pillar. It gets more complicated if you are going all active though. Just a thought.

racebum

it's a crapshoot

you can go to a store and demo in car major brands they sell to see if you like their sonic signature

with raw drivers you have to experiment. high efficiency and low qts scare me for a door driver just looking at specs

but really...no idea on how they sound. you have to try it if you're curious. personally i have never yet found a small no name brand that has actually carried its weight. again the nervous factor

it's just one hell of a lot of risk if they don't work as you will have hacked up the door. the elate 903 is a stellar speaker set and could fit in a similar opening i suppose

ps do you actually like the sound of the sub delayed like that? i can understand the theoretical argument but i almost always put the sub in front of the mids and tweets rather than behind them. personal preference i suppose

racebum

it's easier honestly. with active you don't have the phase/frequencies issues to deal with. major brands, good ones anyway compensate for this with actual testing in their passive crossovers. it still isn't perfect as the vehicle and any enclosure affect perceived frequency response. MUCH easier in home audio by the way. you can control the enclosure and have a reasonable idea of what type of room they may be used in

with active you have just eliminated it the same way we have for years by going active on a subwoofer

the #1 reason more systems aren't all active is complexity. you have to run specific wiring, you have to have more amp channels and you have to have a deck that can do it

02BlownZ06

Yeah, that's what I meant by going active being more complicated. I went full active in my 85 Ford Thunderbird back in 1987 with Alpine HU, Alpine amps and Alpine active X-0ver with 3-way Boston Acoustics components front and rear and four 8's infinite baffle behind the rear seat. That was pretty high tech for the time and like you said it got more complicated with all the amp channels and going to each individual driver. I did not have a way to tweak it like you do nowadays though and I was never completely happy with the sound. I would be tempted to try it again with today's technology.

TheProsecutor

I have considered the woofer and mid in the door and tweeter in the pillar.
I have a-pillar tweeter pods from Germany. Alpine tweeter going in them.
I might do a 4" midrange with the 8" midbass from Stevens Audio, aka Image Dynamics.
The 3" midrange I am looking at is https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...ofer--264-1058

racebum

that vifa ring radiator with the alpine badge? those aren't nearly as efficient as the woofers you have been speaking of. the typhany mid is even less sensitive. padding the woofer and tweeter to the point of the mid completely defeats the purpose of using a high efficiency driver in the first place. even if you run the mids 1-2db dark you're still bringing that woofer down a LOT

you also have no idea how well the cones will play together between the mid and woofer.

put this $$ toward a set of morel elates and have a nicely balanced system from the start. no door hacking required and you have 2 or 3 drivers that play very well together

i have a pair of those typhany tweeters here. they are good when compared to something like a JL c2 or c3 but they aren't in the same ballpark as even the morel mt230 found in the hybrid set let alone elates.

i guess my vote looking at this is it's just not a good use of resources. $200 woofers, $80 mids $40 tweeters. that's 320 and if that's all you can spend maybe you have an argument.

spend $500 on a set of morel hybrids if you haggle dynamic autosound and you have a drop in 6.5 that plays fine to 2.2khz and a better tweeter you can cross up from there

if you just can't help yourself and have to DIY and you plan on making enclosures there are quite a few speakers worth considering that will better match that ring radiator in efficiency. hell you could even order a 602 s3 woofer from the B&W replacement page if you want to try a 7" woofer with a great midrange. eliminates the need for the peerless mid as this woofer plays fine to the 3.2-3.5 that tweeter needs to be crossed at. the 602 s3 is also the last of the batch to be made in england in the main B&W plant http://bwgroupsupport.com/parts/partslist-bw

racebum

it's really good if you have the $ to back it up. modern DSP's like the audison bit one are magic

02BlownZ06

yeah that will be the next step for me when I get to round 2 of audio mods.

racebum

not sure if you're still considering 8s in the door but there is an absolutely silly deal going on

the morel elate 9" 2 way set is being closed out via dynamic autosound for $599. you can sell those crossovers for 100 and that means $500 for one hell of a lot better tweeter than the typhany alpines and one of the higher tier morel woofers. these are the good made in isreal ones

search morel on buy.com

TheProsecutor

For the near future, I decided on installing some 25 year old speakers that I bought back in college. They are Soundstream SS-510 midranges. I blew the tweeters back in 1998. I am considering Hertz Mille 700.3 Legend or Morel Elate 6.

racebum

they are both good but a different sound.

hertz does the live klipsch type sound really well

morel is more nearfield and hi-fi, more of a warm sound. very similar to dynaudio.

highly recommend demoing both off the same amps and head unit if possible. i like the elate more but at this point it's subjective

absolutely agree with what you're doing. use what you have until you get something really nice and it's exactly what you want

ps. the owner of dynamic autosound will haggle on morel and pricing. the morel hybrid 2 way component set that's $749 at crutchfield he sold me for $500 shipped after a polite back and forth with negotiations

TheProsecutor

Looking at Stereo Integrity line of speakers.

racebum

looks like higher end chinese. when i see xbl2 motor i think of CSS and their sdx10 and sdx12 subwoofers which were pretty good. could be the same factory?

still not in the same ballpark as dynaudio or morel. it isn't just measurements either. some of those chinese drivers measure really well. it's how the cones resonate and create sound.

you can tap a tin can, or a shelf, tap your foot on the ground. with instruments you only see the frequencies these sounds create. you don't actually hear them. that's the magic of some of the really refined drivers coming out of places like b&w, martin logan, morel, dynaudio. martin logan for one doesn't even measure all that well but they are pleasing to the ear because of how they produce sound.

your old system with the soundstream class a amps. dynaudio and a cd7200 would be just as lovely today as it was then.

TheProsecutor

It was all in a decent car, 1998 Ford Contour SVT.

02BlownZ06

In a way I like the Frankenstein idea of throwing together a system to get you rolling and then over time swapping stuff out for super high end as budget allows. I did the same thing earlier this year using some old school Rockford amps and speakers from an early 2000's build I did to get a damn good sounding system but the 960 was the key. It sounded like nails to the chalkboard with the Pioneer head unit but now sounds fantastic considering what I have. Next step is upgrade!