corvette_realtor

How do you determine if your car is too big of a financial loss? Check out all the work my 31 y/o coupe needs, and help me decide if I should invest in fixing it, or find a different Vette:


1) Leaky valve cover gasket that my mechanic couldn't fix right (he can't make time for me to come in so he can fix it again, so I'll be learning to do this myself)
Cost: I've already spent a couple hundred on the repair, now I'll have to spend $30 on new parts + a weekend afternoon doing the work myself.

2) Air housing assembly has broken plastic clip so that the air filter does not stay on.
Cost: $200 for new part + however long it takes for me to take off the old one and install new one. Plus cost of new filter.

3) Only have 3 matching tires, one mismatched tire that is newer and constantly deflating. Bad wheel or bad tire?
Cost: All 4 tires should probably be replaced, that'll probably cost between $600-800 depending on what kind of tires I buy and who does the work.

4) Digital dash is only 1/2 on, so either burnt out bulbs or bad electrical.
Cost: I think I spent close to $100 on all new LED bulbs. Plus however long it takes me to disassemble dash, install new lights, put dash back together.

5) Suspension is really wobbly and probably needs new bushings, or new shock absorbers, or new struts.
Cost: No idea but probably running close to $1,000 to pay someone to do it.

6) Exhaust tips are flaking the metal finish, now rusty looking. Exhaust smells rich. Not sure if that's from the leaking valve cover gaskets or if its an issue entirely on its own.
Cost: No clue but new tips alone would probably cost close to $100 + time learning how to take off/put on new ones.

7) Bad EGR valve.
Cost: I think mechanic quoted me $250 or so to perform that work.

8) Ripped driver seat.
Cost: New faux-leather covers (applied directly to the foam) will cost about $350 plus a lot of time to install. Neoprene or other faux-leather covers (that cover entire seat) will cost about $150-200.

9) Bad weatherstripping.
Cost: I don't recall how much the parts cost but I'm guessing a few hundred bucks for all-new weatherstrip plus a lot of time to take off/apply new.

10) Transmission "clunk." My auto tranny makes a "thunk" when it is put into reverse or into drive. Not sure yet if it just needs new fluids (checking that this wknd) or if it needs a rebuild.
Cost: Assuming rebuild, close to $2,000 I reckon.



No, I didn't know how much I was getting into when I bought the car. I overpaid at $7,500 purchase price. It was rough for that amount. The fuel pump had to be replaced the day I bought it (fortunately dealership paid for that) and it cost about $400. I had to have peeling tint removed by Ziebart, that cost $150.


If I add all repairs up, the total estimated cost is reaching $6,000. That's with some labor done by a mechanic, but most of it done by me. And I barely know what I'm doing (learning a lot along the way).


At $7,500 purchase price, plus $6,000 repairs, this 1986 coupe will have cost me roughly $13,500. That's half the cost of a decent used C6! Wouldn't I be better off financially buying a cleaner, newer C4? OR, put that $6,000 cash and trade the car up for a newer C6? What are your thoughts? I really like the C4 but... damn...

SR71!

No way I'd dump 6k into an '86 right out of the gate. That being said, if you're into the "project" approach and love that aspect of owning, then by all means. If you're into washing, waxing, driving and the occasional repair, then yeah....get something else.


My 2 cents.

belairbrian

I think you need to gets some facts before you decide. The $2000 transmission could just be a $20 u-joint. If so that could change $6000 to $4000. Still your into it for 11,500.


but if you use the pricing theory of fair market value minus needed repairs, you would probably be seeing maybe $1000 trade value. So at least the major things would need fixing before you could sell it.

cv67

You can replace everything and still have a clunk
Sell the car now as is
For 6g you can buy a real nice pre 90 car. For 8-10 you can buy one that is stellar may have a rebuilt engine mint interior

Cut losses and move on these cars are too cheap to spend that kind of money on.
81c3 has a gorgeous 86, doesnt have much into it.
eat a little $ now revel in a spectacluar one afterwards. these cars are cheap take advantage of it. I think 8k can get you a no issues everything works and looks great C4.

Had an 89 I bought for 5k...dumped 2-3k in it took a year of pulling my hair out to get it reliable..loved it
bought a 400 for it planned on that and some seat covers. head gasket started seeping so let her go.
Looking back wish I had it now but a killer deal on a Z came up had to have it. So many toys cheap now its hard not to shop. lol

corvette_realtor

I don't even know how to determine what the major things are. If I had known more about these issues when I bought the car, they would all be deterrents to me buying! I assume oil leak definitely needs to be fixed.


LOL! You are right. Actually the transmission fluid suggestion came from my mechanic who is an AAMCO certified transmission repairman. It's frustrating that I let my impatience get the best of me and that I bought a bit of a clunker.


Oh I also forgot to mention that my AC just went out. But here's a problem: if I can't sell the car for anything close to what I paid for it, then I'm even more upside down than if I just did the work on it to fix it up.. right?

hcbph

If you do not have tools, a FSM and some basic mechanical abilities then a Vette is not probably the car you should have purchased. Only Vette I'd recommend one in that scenario is one with a 100% bumper to bumper warranty. It sounds like you jumped feet first without having the car evaluated well enough to identify all that was wrong and the price to offer for it in the condition it was in.

Just one example, your #10 item (without driving the car or hearing it in person) I'd suspect could be u-joints rather than transmission. Clunk going in and out forward or reverse gear is very systematic of one or more bad u-joints. If you change them yourself - I'd estimate parts at under $100-$150 depending on brand etc you get and how many you do (there are 6 total in the car).

#4 check out Batee.com website. Bryan has a lot of info on it on these dashes.

#1 & #7 it's been a long time since I change a valve cover seal or an EGR but I've done them and though it may be time consuming it's not outside the abilities of most mechanically inclined people.

I happen to have an 86 myself and as noted it's a 30+ year old car. Find me any 30 yr old car that is perfect, I don't know of any. Yes it needs to be maintained to keep it up, which it sounds like that one was not. How much you spend on the car depends on how much you can do vs. have someone else do it. Me, I've done a little at a time. I broke my lists down to "Have to" vs. "Want to" items. Have to's are those that can be safety related, to prevent damage etc. Want to's are those that would be nice to be done but won't hurt anything if it waited a while to be done (eg - slip a seat cover over that torn seat for now, it typically can wait a while).

Assuming you're mechanically inclined and want to keep the car, I'd recommend you see if there's someone in your area that would mentor you on Vettes or talk to your local Corvette Clubs. There's a wealth of knowledge out there, just need to draw out those that can help along the way. Remember to there's payback, if someone helps you today maybe you can help someone else out down the road. Most everyone has had something they needed info or help with, that's the price you pay for owning a 30 yr old car, but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out for you.

If that doesn't work, then maybe it's best to sell this one and look for some other type car. Doesn't matter the year, every Vette (other than brand new) is going to require some type of maintenance and if you're not up to it will become expensive in short order.

My 2 cents and the best advise I can give you on this.

corvette_realtor

I appreciate your input, hcbph. What you say is true. I did know, going into it, that I'd have to put some TLC into the car. But tallying up this list and the amount of $ it'll cost me is just out of control. At least this has been a learning experience in how NOT to buy a car. Kids, don't do what I did!!


But my only issue with what you say is that maybe a Vette isn't the car for me, due to the fact that they all seem to need repairs. True, they do. Even the new ones don't come off the line perfect. What would you recommend for someone like me, though? I really have a passion for Corvettes, which is why I bought one. I assume a newer car or a better-kept one of the same vintage would have less of a "to do" list.

aklim

Get a real mechanic, preferably one that specializes in vettes and ask him what it would take to fix everything. You should have done a PDI but that boat done sailed. You are stuck with what you have and that is it.

No, you can't honestly calculate what the repair costs are if you toss a bunch of time into it. Time IS money. Also, what happens when you break stuff because you don't really know what you are doing? Sure, it happens all the time. You go in for one simple thing and something breaks now you have a nightmare.

That is if everything goes as planned and there are no surprises on the way. If there are, you are now screwed, estimate wise. I would plan on spending NO LESS THAN $9000 on repairs once you get it.

I'd say. Get a PDI done. It costs maybe $200 and saves you having to get rid of a moneypit.

aklim

I would say that this sort of "fixer upper" isn't for you if you don't know what you are doing or that you are lowballing the estimates.

True but a newer one means there is a LESSER CHANCE of having to need massive amounts of work TODAY and you have a chance to catch up and gain speed as opposed to throwing yourself in the deep end where it is "sink or swim". Yes, a better kept one, if you must have a C4 would be good for you to learn slowly instead of one huge depressing mess. Believe me, it is depressing to spend a year watching your car sit in the garage and have to fix it.

hcbph

I know people will poke sticks at me for saying this but some of the new Honda's and Toyota's are pretty nice and have a good rep. I drove a Hyundai Genesis a couple of years ago and it was nice. There's a lot of 'nice' vehicles out there, whether they fill your wants is really determined by you.

Now other options - maybe consider leasing something for a while. Admittedly you won't have anything when done except cancelled checks but that may take the maintenance issues out of the mix.

Something to consider (at least it is for me), if you look at a newer Vette (C5-C7), they have a transaxle in them. I've heard they're a lot more expensive to repair if something goes wrong. They also have a lot more computers in them than the C4 so there's more potential electronic issues there.

Maybe take a look in the For Sale section of this site and other Vette related sites. Many are well maintained and some have premium parts. There should be knowledgeable people that can evaluate the car or may know it personally.

Honestly, there isn't a single car that's best for everyone. My thoughts and ideas are colored by my own skills, talents, thoughts and ideas. For a best value I'd honestly have to say a good C4 is good bang for the buck, but you need to find that vehicle and like your current vehicle if it's a C4 it would be a 20-30 yrs old vehicle with potential issues. Vehicles are all a crap shoot, good luck.

Now ask me who you should marry

383vett

You think $6000 is bad. Wait until you turn it into a racecar.

mtwoolford

sell that car and cut your losses

that $6,000 in repairs is just the tip of the iceberg (ask me how I know); unless you can do (almost) all the mechanical work yourself and you enjoy doing it "restoring" or even getting that car up and running as a dependable daily driver is gonna be way more than can ever be justified from a purely financial standpoint.

JimLentz

If you can sell it anywhere close to what you paid, that is what I would do. Then buy one with low miles and well cared for. Have it checked by an experienced C4 person/mechanic. I bought a nice '92 and have only had minor repairs I have done myself. Even though mine was pretty nice when I got it here is a list of what I have done to/for the car in the last year+

Both oxygen sensors.
Flushed coolant replaced both knock sensors.
Replaced OEM fuel injectors with rebuilt Bosch III injectors.
Replaced serpentine belt.
New gear oil in manual transmission and rear end.
Sent out ECM for a rebuild.
Redid stereo with rebuilt Bose amps and a new touch screen receiver (with backup camera).
Replaced EGR valve.
Replaced door ajar switch in passenger door.
Replaced a few bulbs, some with LEDs.
Had new tires installed.

There are still things I want to do to the car. None of the above cost me much because I did most of it myself. Older cars can be fun to work on, but the cost can add up fast if you pay to have the work done. For me I find it well worth it when I take the car out for a drive on a nice day.

QCVette

Take a look at your list for options.

The following list shows what can be done for not too much money and may bring it to the point that you like driving it and keeping it, or good enough that you can sell it without losing too much money.

Good luck.


1) Leaky valve cover gasket ---Do the work yourself. It is not too bad a job and parts are relatively cheap.

2) Air housing assembly has broken plastic clip so that the air filter does not stay on. --- Try checking for a used part which might cost less. Or a couple wire ties might make it work for almost no cost.

3) Only have 3 matching tires, one mismatched tire that is newer and constantly deflating. ---Take it to a tire store and have them check it. They should be able to find the leak. If it is the tire, they can probably fix it for under $20. If a rim, you can get a used one fairly cheap. I have quite often seen sets for about $100

4) Digital dash is only 1/2 on, so either burnt out bulbs or bad electrical.---Check the side that is off to see if you can see it is working or just very very faint. If it is working but faint, then it is just the backlighting bulbs. A couple bulbs can be purchased for about $15 and can be installed from the front in about 15 minutes.

5) Suspension is really wobbly and probably needs new bushings, or new shock absorbers, or new struts.---Wobbly is an vague term that needs more investigation. New shocks can be about $80 for KYB and installation is a pretty basic DIY (The fronts don't even need to jack up the car).

6) Exhaust tips are flaking the metal finish, now rusty looking. ---You can put new tips on for under $50 or simply paint them, or a whole used catback cost me about $50.

Exhaust smells rich. --- Unsure what this is without more info. The leaking valve cover gaskets will smell, but not coming out the exhaust. Is the exhaust smoking? If so, black indicates too rich, light blue indicates oil, and white indicates coolant. Need more info on diagnosing this.

7) Bad EGR valve.--- An EGR costs between about $25 to $50 depending on brand. I did mine, but the TPI disassembly and reassembly can be difficult. The $250 for your mechanic to do it might be worthwhile. Regarless who does it, check the EGR before assembly. I had 2 in a row brand new that would not hold vacuum. I finally went with the AC Delco part that worked.


8) Ripped driver seat.--- Try the $150 route so you can get the car presentable and drivable.

9) Bad weatherstripping.--- Weatherstripping can be expensive and hard to do. How bad is it? If it is a just some spots, they can be temporarily repaired with black rtv. (my temporary lasted over 5 years until I sold the car.)

10) Transmission "clunk.--- Check further on this. When first engaging a drive or reverse it is frequently a u-joint. They are much cheaper than transmissions.

aklim

Absolutely depends on what you want the car to do.

How so? You still pay for items not considered wear and tear. You pay for oil changes (or it can be wrapped up in the price), brakes, tires, etc.

True but if you go down that road, a car with AC and radio has more potential to have trouble than a car with no AC or radio. How does one draw the line? I would look at it from the standpoint that just because it is POSSIBLE doesn't mean it is LIKELY. So how LIKELY is it to fail?

I'd look at eBay and KBB to see what it has SOLD for as opposed to some owner's wishful thinking. For instance, if you asked me, I put 20K into it. Base value is 8K. Therefore, I feel it is worth 28K. Well, reality is that it probably sells for 15K but only TO THE RIGHT BUYER. IOW he has to be looking for just that sort of modification. If not, probably not. You put 20K of body work and mods into it and I don't care about that huge wing and lowered look, why would I give you what you 20K for it?

Again, true but with such a laundry list, one has to ask if you like the car or are in love with it and plan to keep it forever because that is what you are going to do.

Why would I ask you? There is eHarmony and match.com for that.

corvette_realtor

Thanks for all the input. I'm surprised to see so many responses that say "sell it" instead of "pull your boots up and learn how to do it all yourself" as I know there are a lot of talented mechanics on the site who are able to do their own work. And I wish I knew more than I do. My grandpa has rebuilt old trucks, he is willing to help me with getting some of the work done. But he can't do it all at his age, and why would he? It's not his car!


I have formed such an attachment to the Corvette over the years and now with the C4 as an owner. I'm afraid if I sell it for less, I won't be able to afford another. The $6k repairs is something that will slowly get tackled. I don't have that chunk of change to spend right this moment. A trade plus a little cash would be ideal but


For reference, I leased a 2015 Scion FR-S prior to owning my Vette. It was a nice car. I have never felt so confident on the road. It was GLUED to the pavement on tight turns. The Vette is close, but not as tight and secure. Plus the FR-S had probably 10 airbags or something and my Vette has none. Hah.


I am a bit of a Toyota fanboy but I'd rather have a Vette in my garage any day. I'll be thinking about the advice I've received as I get these next few projects done myself...

aklim

Anything can be done. It's just that some things aren't worth doing. Kinda like taking an alcohol heroine addicted girl with health issues, bad attitude and a plethora of mental issues and trying to make something of her. This car is not worth the money and time. Furthermore do you know how many half done projects end up being sold after they throw good money after bad? If this was a model A Ford, sure.

For a user vespa, maybe.

If you have never tackled a project like this, better not start on a loser. If something happens a day you have to give up the project, it will be an even greater loss. This is what often happens when you throw good money after bad. Again, your money, your call but life doesn't stay completely still. Sometimes you may have to make sacrifices when you have a kid, get married, buy a house or have a financial problem.

L.V. Vette

COMPLETELY! There will be more expenses. Unfortunately, the typical C4 does not justify that much investment. But, if you're REALLY attached to the car...

aklim

Way more than that, I suspect.

Agree with you. If you are going to do that, it better be something you can do quickly before circumstances change.

Dt86

Don't beat yourself up over buying it. If you don't know C4's then you won't know what to look for. There's so many big ticket items on these cars unfortunately.
A lot of your issues are costly due to the labor involved, not necessarily the expense of the parts. If you're going to fix it yourself buy a field service manual and learn about your car. Repairs are just a series of steps to take. And there's how-to threads on the forum for nearly everything. Who knows? Maybe there's some forum members near you that are willing to lend you a hand.
As for the mechanic who didn't fix the problem and can't find the time to make good on it, screw that. You paid money To have a repair done and he didn't fix it. Don't stand for that BS.