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PSS Delaminated... Michelin said it's normal wear?
One of the PSSs on my Z06 delaminated.
I dropped it off at my local Chevy dealer. I was advised that the tire should be covered by Michelin, but today the Chevy dealer contacted me and said that Michelin had deemed it normal wear.
I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue and may be able to point me to someone who can help.
I dropped it off at my local Chevy dealer. I was advised that the tire should be covered by Michelin, but today the Chevy dealer contacted me and said that Michelin had deemed it normal wear.
I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue and may be able to point me to someone who can help.
uhm, you left out three very important facts - how many miles on the tires? and, do you track the car? finally, have you ever had a complete alignment done on the car?
I dropped it off at my local Chevy dealer. I was advised that the tire should be covered by Michelin, but today the Chevy dealer contacted me and said that Michelin had deemed it normal wear.
I'm hoping someone else has had a similar issue and may be able to point me to someone who can help.
Aside from what the other's have said, where did you buy the tire? I bought Cup2s from Tire Rack and one delaminated after 2 days at the track. I'm working with Tire Rack who is talking to Michelin. They already reviewed pictures. Next step is shipping the tire back once I can get it dismounted.
uhm, you left out three very important facts - how many miles on the tires? and, do you track the car? finally, have you ever had a complete alignment done on the car?
how many miles on the tires?
2k
do you track the car?
I have dedicated wheels/tires for the track
have you ever had a complete alignment done on the car?
annually
The tire is at the dealer, I can ask them to send pics.
do you track the car?
I have dedicated wheels/tires for the track
have you ever had a complete alignment done on the car?
annually
The tire is at the dealer, I can ask them to send pics.
I bought the tire from the dealer.
I feel for you. There are a bunch of us who have had this problem with the Cup2s. I didn't realize it was happening with the PSS. When mine delaminated, peeled or what ever you want to call it I had ~ 2.5 track days on the tires. Three tires wore nicely the right rear did not. My dealer (not the one where I purchased the car) decided to do a good will warranty and replaced both of my rear tires even though I had only asked for consideration of the damaged tire.
Does your tread look like this?
If your tire is worn this way see if the dealer will help on the replacement, especially if you purchased the car from them.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 10-19-2017 at 11:55 AM.
I have the exact same problem on both PSS rears and now on one PSS front. In both cases it was the inside middle "rib". Both ribs adjacent (inside and out) show normal wear. Less than 5K miles but with 2 track days thrown in for good measure.
Bill, are we getting tire rub on the right rear that’s causing delamination? With the positive rear castor the right rear is pretty close to a wheel liner bulge in the front portion of the right rear wheel well.
Re Cup 2’s... There was a bad batch of tires that got out (date codes were late 2015)... didn’t become widely known until mid 2016 and seems many are still floating around on the resale market as “take offs”. They will delaminate prematurely and quickly... had a set. They are not being warrantied from what I understand.
Cup tires wear quickly... they are intended as a “street legal” DOT track tire... wasted on the street. I like SS for street and save the Cup 2s for the track.
When both of my front tire PSS tires chunked I contacted Michelin directly and they said I could take them back to the dealership, or if I preferred, I could take it to any local certified Michelin dealer. Michelin gave me a case number to use. I took them to Discount Tire where they examined them and phoned Michelin who authorized a pro-rated replacement. They replaced them at around 1/2 price. These were the original tires with ~2,500 miles on them. Nobody asked about track use.
Re Cup 2’s... There was a bad batch of tires that got out (date codes were late 2015)... didn’t become widely known until mid 2016 and seems many are still floating around on the resale market as “take offs”. They will delaminate prematurely and quickly... had a set. They are not being warrantied from what I understand.
Cup tires wear quickly... they are intended as a “street legal” DOT track tire... wasted on the street. I like SS for street and save the Cup 2s for the track.
Interesting and the first I've heard of this. I believe part of premature wear can also come from track surface and driver input. We set up a Z that went to a track in Colorado and that track killed a new set of cups in 3 days! Back home at the glass smooth Watkins Glen we get 12 track days out of a set of cups. The common delamination area is where I judge a tire to be junk or not. Once I can clearly see the threads of the tires carcass showing its time to go. Overall these are dam good tires.
I think Michelin is just pushing the limits of capability with street tires. Seems they really are on the razors edge to give that magazine performance but durability just isn't there. Great tire for the street, but seemingly will get killed on a track if you just slightly push them outside their boundaries.
Definitely makes you want a dedicated set of track wheels/tires that cost less....at least that's my feeling.
Bill, are we getting tire rub on the right rear that’s causing delamination? With the positive rear castor the right rear is pretty close to a wheel liner bulge in the front portion of the right rear wheel well.
When my tire delaminated the right side rear had negative caster as I didn't get the rear caster set until 8 months later.
Originally Posted by Questar
Re Cup 2’s... There was a bad batch of tires that got out (date codes were late 2015)... didn’t become widely known until mid 2016 and seems many are still floating around on the resale market as “take offs”. They will delaminate prematurely and quickly... had a set. They are not being warrantied from what I understand.
Cup tires wear quickly... they are intended as a “street legal” DOT track tire... wasted on the street. I like SS for street and save the Cup 2s for the track.
My tires were date coded the first half of 2016 and were delivered on my car that was built in June 2015. It is more than issue with some tires manufactured in late 2015.
It is more than issue with some tires manufactured in late 2015.
Bill
Agreed. Supposedly a lot of the "2015" problem tires were caught before they got out to the public but not all. I ended up buying a set of "nearly new" take offs, only to later discover that they were some of the "missed" 2015 problem batch.
By my second track day I was already seeing the underlayer showing in places... I caught it early and took the tires off and set them aside. I won't use them on track anymore and will eventually just burn them up for fun somewhere.
The tires felt fine but visually I could see they were beginning to indicate problems. My second set were last half of 2016 production code (came on my 2017 and I had removed them upon delivery of the car to save them for track use)... those tires have been totally different. Did @ 6 track days with those and they still have (I think) one more day left in them.
Just to add... I won't say where I got this, but I will say this came from within Michelin...
" … there’s only a little less than 4 mm of usable tread on the PS Cup 2’s, ...when you get much below the wear bars, you get into the under-tread which doesn’t have any grip.
The rubber you see with the circumferential bands is under-tread and it’s hard, to support the soft sticky rubber on top, which is why they look like they do.
...recommendation is to use the Pilot Super Sport ZP’s. They have about 3 mm’s more usable tread depth and are a similar compound.
...the ultimate lap time will come from the PSC 2’s, but the PSS tires will provide a whole lot more wear life."
I also spoke to Lee Willard when he was at the IMSA event here a few months back and he outright said the Cup 2's (which he helped design) were the best DOT approved track tire they could produce but were not really intended for normal daily street use. You can do it but they just won't last. They are meant to be a street legal track tire and he claimed they will give the best performance possible, short of going to a track slick. Having said that he agreed with me that the Super Sport is very close to the performance of the Cup 2's and will last considerably longer... both on track and on the street.
If I could buy slicks up here as cheap as in the US it might be an option but for me the cost of the slicks isn't much cheaper than my cost for Cup 2's so I continue to use them... but only on the track. My last session out I ran my street Super Sports and my lap times were actually within a couple tenths of my previous personal best. Those Super Sports have @ 6,000 street miles on them and 3 previous track days... so obviously the tires aren't yet what I need to focus on, it's continuing to improve my skills.
10-18-2017, 02:30 PM
PSS Delaminated... Michelin said it's normal wear?
