evolmotorsprt

I've decided to scrap the idea of using LS7 lifters because of all of the bad news I've come across. At this point I'm planning on going with the Morel 5315's or whatever the new part number is.

Any of you that have done a build and put serious miles on it, do you have any recommendations on what you used and experience? I put 7k miles on my C5 last year, like taking long trips, and going to the racetrack occasionally. Reliability is key. I don't want to be 1000 miles from home and have lifter issues.

Mod Plan: 228R with improved TSP Lobes, PRC 2.5 LS6, 11:1 comp, Ported Fast 92/90, LG Super Pros...

I'd like to set the rev limiter at 7k and shift around 6.5-6.7k. When at the track the car will be road raced and auto-crossed.

ASRoff

Morel is good... ive had no complaints with Lunati and hear good things about Johnson lifters.

link bar lifters ensure a roller wont turn and ad stability... or you could go with dog bone trays. the main thing with LSx engines is ensuring stability with the valvetrain. but since you are sub 7,000 Rpm this may be overkill....

vettenuts

Morels here as well. Can't recall the part number, they make several LS versions now that they didn't when I bought mine. Morels are designed to sit lower in the bore due to the smaller base circle of an aftermarket cam. Heard good things about Johnson lifters as well but can't personally comment on them.

With that high an RPM, I would absolutely add larger OD pushrods to your list of parts.

DetroitPlac

I've got a similar build. Used LS7 lifters with new trays. 7k miles on it with no issues including some track time (road course). I'd be more worried about pushrods than lifters. Keep in mind that the sample size for LS7 lifters is massive, so you're going to get the vocal few that have issues.

I get it from a piece of mind standpoint, though. I'd probably give more thought to the drop-in Morels if I were doing it all over again. But from my experience, the LS7's are fine.

evolmotorsprt

So the TSP and comp cams pushrods are 5/16" with .080 wall thickness. I saw the LS7 magnum pushrods are 3/8" but I think they come in limited lengths. Do you have a recommendation for a brand and size that would fit the bill?

^^Same question as above, and since you have a similar build is there anything else that you've regretted/would like to change or really like that you could pass on to me?

ASRoff

for pushrods.. the best I have used/ seen used are Manton http://mantonpushrods.com/

For the record.... in road race engine Kurt Urban (Mr LS) uses them with a restrictor in them..... he says its to keep more oil in the pan in sustained high rpm builds.

DetroitPlac

Think A LOT about what you want out of the car in terms of overall drive. Are you doing gears or will you? Do you want the powerband higher?

I went with a BTR Stage 2 cam: 227/234 .614"/.576" 113+2 "similar" in size to a 228r. The car doesn't make a ton of torque, but has phenomenal mid to high end power. That could have a lot to do with my heads: Livernois Stage 3 CNC'd 243's, which are some of the highest flowing 243's out there. The result is not much below 4k RPM, which sacrifices a bit of street performance, but I added 4.10 gears to compliment the overall package. Works pretty well, but I downplayed how important matching the heads and cam and intake (I'm on stock LS6) are on overall drive. Car made 443 whp and 380 wtq.

If I could do it all over again, I might have considered a cam a bit smaller with less lift. Like a Cam Motion Titan 3 (224/228 .603"/.595" 113+4) to possibly shift the power band down a bit. 95% of my driving is on the street, so I'd like a bit more mid range.

I'm running 5/16 BTR pushrods, and don't see much in the way of performance hit with a 6,900 rev limiter. It continues making power until 6,700, which is pretty remarkable. But I've been thinking more, and I'll probably switch to 3/8 dual tapered pushrods for added valvetrain stability, especially on the track. That's another thing, I probably would have seriously considered having the heads modified to accept 3/8 pushrods before installing them. Extended periods of high revving on the track should have some serious pushrods.

Trend makes really nice reasonably priced tapered 3/8 pushrods that I think I'll swap this spring before my first track day.

Also, don't forget a rocker trunnion upgrade. I installed the Straub bushing kit and really like it.

You'll also likely need new injectors. You're probably going to run out of fuel if you're still on the stockers.

itsslow98

I did Johnson short travel lifters on my full heads cam build. Those along with yella terra ultralights and ma ton 11/32 pushrods. All speced out by mamo who really stresses the most stable valvetrain parts.

Route99

I used the Johnson linked lifters while making some changes to my engine last year. Probably overkill but when visiting with my tuner before making the changes, he had a recently rebuilt LS6 in the shop with a LS7 lifter that had turned in the tray and chewed into the cam (and the accompanying metal shavings everywhere). That finalized my decision to go linked lifters. Turns out the other driver decided to follow suit - guess I should have gotten a commission from Johnson.

cv67

jm .02 if you get into the 240 range just go solid and tight lasth imo is a sales gimmick. Youll feel the difference the stories about always adjusting the valves are fairly tales.

vettenuts

The Manton 11/32" are favored because they are known to fit most, if not all, heads without modification. I used Trend 3/8" double tapered for better harmonics but I also rolled the dice on fitment when I bought them, i.e., I thought they would fit but wasn't sure so I gambled the money I spent on them and it worked out.

I did a write-up here several years ago on pushrod stiffness. Definitely go bigger than 5/16". Outside diameter buys a lot more pushrod bending stiffness than wall thickness.

DetroitPlac

Lifters rotating aren't an issue with the lifter, rather the trays. If you change lifters without changing trays, you should count on this happening. I was shocked at how flimsy my stock LS1 trays were compared to the new LS2 trays I installed. I'm not at all worried about my lifters rotating.

evolmotorsprt

Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping with the 228R, stock 3.42 gears, and good compression I'll have a car that is good as a daily and great on a road course. Midrange punch with reasonable top end power was my original goal, but reliability is paramount.

I ended up getting the CHE trunion kit and the SVO red injectors. Still on the fence about pushrods. I'd like to just buy 3/8" but I'm not sure they'd just drop in. Are you pretty confident the tapered 3/8" will fit no problem?

This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid!!! Right now I'm debating between the Morel 5315 and 5290. It seems like a common dilemma on here. I do have new lifter trays, but if having the links really steps up the robustness of the valvetrain I may just go for them. Those Johnson lifters are really nice. I just don't know if $700 for lifters in a ~450ish HP (optimistic) street car is worth it to me. If my thinking is flawed let me know.

Your article was outstanding. In my use with a 228R sized cam revving to 6700ish, do you think I'd be leaving anything on the table going with 11/32" instead of a tapered 3/8"? I'd like to do this once and know it's right. BTW, what is the max RPM your setup is seeing?

DetroitPlac

From what I've read, tapered 3/8's are stronger than anything short of straight 3/8's. Though, wall thickness can play into that. Thick 11/32nd's might be fine.

Tapered 3/8's will fit...it's what they were designed for mostly. Flex happens in the middle of the pushrod anyhow...so beefing up the middle takes care of most of the issues.

evolmotorsprt

After a lot of reading and hair pulling I'm going to go with the Johnson 2110 Lifters with Manton 11/32" .120 Pushrods. I think this combo will be solid for a somewhat budget street/road race motor. Thanks guys for all of your help and suggestions.

DetroitPlac

I don't see how you could go wrong with that setup. It'll treat you well.

Make sure to measure before you buy pushrods. With your heads and those lifters being different from stock, you'll likely need shorter pushrods.

LIKELY. A pushrod length checker is a good investment.

Route99

Sounds like a good set up.
You should consider DetroitPlac's comment about LS2 lifter trays being more substantial than the LS1 trays.

93Polo

Morel drop ins and Johnson 2110s are both good options. I went 2110s as my car has 2.05" intake valves in the WCCH Edelbrocks. I am planning on HPDE use and went with Manton 3/8" oil restricted pushrods. I think the 2110 is a bit more robust than the Morel in my novice opinion.

A close friend has Morel Drop ins, Comp 5/16" pushrods, CamMotion Titan 4? (227/234) and has run several HPDEs with out issue, He has BTR springs, Straub trunions with untouched 243s. Yes I tried to talk him into 11/32", Vettenuts topic is a great read. he hasn't broken anything yet knock on wood. 60k?+ miles cammed

If I were building a heads and cam street car (no HPDE use) I would have the heads clearanced for standard 3/8" pushrods such as Tick's. Many aftermarket heads will clear the 3/8" and porters of OEM castings will normally clearance the pushrod holes for a reasonable price.


If you really want to dig in to the topic:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...s-welcome.html

I would replace trays, they are inexpensive, the newest C5 is knocking on a decade and half old, and they are plastic living in a hot environment. I can suck up the price of trays for a little extra insurance.

93Polo

Assuming you are not seeing HPDE time, You stated you are planning on running PRC ported heads. I would talk to the porter to see if they can clearance the heads for a 3/8". I know Advanced Inductions will. You can buy less expensive 3/8" off the shelf pushrods rather than made to order Mantons.

http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...ngth-080-wall/

evolmotorsprt

I am 100% with you on the LS2 lifter trays, and have already bought them. As for the pushrods, I'll see what I can do to get the heads clearanced and how much it'll cost. I'll find out if it's more trouble than it's worth to run the 3/8" pushrods. If the machining is the same as the cost difference for 3/8" tapered pushrods, I may consider getting the tapered pushrods just to save time. The machine shop I've used is about 30 min. from me and I'd like to save a trip. I'll give them a call today. Thanks guys!

Oh, and I plan on HPDE on the regular. We have a great racetrack here in Utah.