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So I'm going to get an alignment this season and I would like to shift my front and rear cradle to get more camber. I have previously done this but it shifted back to where it was previously.
Are there any tips or tricks to prevent my cradle from shifting back to its previous position?
Can I make some sort of metal filler to prevent it from shifting? Should I rough up the metal where the washer is touching the cradle surface so it less likely to slide?
So I'm going to get an alignment this season and I would like to shift my front and rear cradle to get more camber. I have previously done this but it shifted back to where it was previously.
Are there any tips or tricks to prevent my cradle from shifting back to its previous position?
Can I make some sort of metal filler to prevent it from shifting? Should I rough up the metal where the washer is touching the cradle surface so it less likely to slide?
Any input is appreciated.
I plan to do this also. I know someone that did it and he told me the frame has locating pins for the cradles and he could not move it much. But I hope to get enough to even out the camber on the front, on drivers side I can get -2.2 but on passengers side all I get is -1.7. Also when I replaced my shocks with Konis I had to remove the bolts for the front upper control arms and saw the factory had some spacers in there, on the drivers side they had one spacer per bolt on the front mount, I assume to add castor, but on the passenger side they have 2 spacers per bolt on the front arm mount side and one per bolt on the rear arm mount, so I could (and am going to) take one spacer off each bolt on the passenger side and see what that gets me.
I plan to do this also. I know someone that did it and he told me the frame has locating pins for the cradles and he could not move it much. But I hope to get enough to even out the camber on the front, on drivers side I can get -2.2 but on passengers side all I get is -1.7. Also when I replaced my shocks with Konis I had to remove the bolts for the front upper control arms and saw the factory had some spacers in there, on the drivers side they had one spacer per bolt on the front mount, I assume to add castor, but on the passenger side they have 2 spacers per bolt on the front arm mount side and one per bolt on the rear arm mount, so I could (and am going to) take one spacer off each bolt on the passenger side and see what that gets me.
My car in the front non shift max is -2.2 shifted i get -2.9 on both sides
Last edited by hamburgerman; 03-14-2018 at 01:38 PM.
My car in the front non shift max is -2.2 shifted i get -2.9 on both sides
That is a lot, I would love that much camber. Your car must be lower than mine. Are you using factory camber cams or have you installed aftermarket ones that allow more camber?
That is a lot, I would love that much camber. Your car must be lower than mine. Are you using factory camber cams or have you installed aftermarket ones that allow more camber?
Why not get one of the many alignment/shim kits available so that you don't have to shift the cradle?
AMT Motorsport has a fantastic setup that should achieve what you're looking for or other companies like Borg Motorsport offer offset bushings if you really want to get crazy.
Last edited by Quickshift_C5; 03-14-2018 at 02:54 PM.
Why not get one of the many alignment/shim kits available so that you don't have to shift the cradle?
AMT Motorsport has a fantastic setup that should achieve what you're looking for or other companies like Borg Motorsport offer offset bushings if you really want to get crazy.
I cannot run off set bushing or shims in the scca...... So I shift the cradle.
This is what he's working with. I would argue that your adjusters do not exceed the range of factory as they will not push the adjuster beyond the slots in the cradle. I know from my experience that a C5 with the upper washers removed, a good set of bushings, and proper alignment bolts can get more than 2.8 degrees of negative camber.
13.8 SUSPENSION
A. Standard, as defined herein, suspension springs must be used. They may not be cut, shortened, or collapsed. Spring perches may not vary from the OE shape within the working part of the perch.
B. Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances. This encom- passes both alignment and ride height parameters if such adjustments are provided by the standard components and specified by the factory as normal methods of adjustment. However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual.
C. Suspension bushings, including but not limited to those which carry the weight of the vehicle and determine ride height, may not be replaced with bushings of a different material or dimension.
Last edited by Sox-Fan; 03-14-2018 at 04:12 PM.
Reason: edited for formatting
This is what he's working with. I would argue that your adjusters do not exceed the range of factory as they will not push the adjuster beyond the slots in the cradle. I know from my experience that a C5 with the upper washers removed, a good set of bushings, and proper alignment bolts can get more than 2.8 degrees of negative camber.
They don't exceed the range of factory, but they're not "factory adjustment arrangements", which looks to me to be spelled out here. Looks fairly clear to me that a camber kit would be disallowed, which is dumb since you're only locking in your alignment in an adjustment range allowed from the factory, but using non-factory hardware. Wonder what it would take to talk some sense into SCCA about that.
B. Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances. This encompasses both alignment and ride height parameters if such adjustments are provided by the standard components and specified by the factory as normal methods of adjustment. However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual.
I guess I just don't know anything about autrocross classing. If the idea of a "street" class is to basically disallow aftermarket tuning then it makes sense that they would want to keep the cars as stock as possible.
Last edited by Mark@AMT Motorsport; 03-14-2018 at 06:52 PM.
craddle shift only allows more camber on one side. Craddle shift is used to equalize left and right camber. Best way to do it all is with locking camber plates. The adjuster will move. Rubber bushings negate most of the advantage of changing camber. be careful removing the upper control arm shims. Those shims also adjust your caster. So equal washer sizes need to be added or removed to keep the caster the same.
They don't exceed the range of factory, but they're not "factory adjustment arrangements", which looks to me to be spelled out here. Looks fairly clear to me that a camber kit would be disallowed, which is dumb since you're only locking in your alignment in an adjustment range allowed from the factory, but using non-factory hardware. Wonder what it would take to talk some sense into SCCA about that.
B. Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances. This encompasses both alignment and ride height parameters if such adjustments are provided by the standard components and specified by the factory as normal methods of adjustment. However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual.
Mark,
I can see why they would not allow them. Not all camber plates are the same and some may or may not permit moving the control arms further than the factory cams. On my C6Z I ran Pfadt camber plates in front and they just about reached the max limit the factory cams would permit. I wasn't able to get quite as much camber with the plates as the stock cams permitted. Then I switched to the Van Steel camber plates and they let me run the control arm in further than the stock cam or out further than the stock cam. They gave me so much negative camber in the front that I worried about running out of adjustment range on the stock tie rod ends.
The rear Pfadt kit provided multiple plates with varying offsets. At the rear I couldn't get use equal plates from side to side because the cradle was shifted about a 1/10 inch to the right. That forced me to use a larger offset plate on the left side than on the right side to get equal camber without changing the shims at the top.
What I don't see is getting a lot of camber gain on a C5, C6 and probably a C7 by shifting the cradle. You can equalize camber settings to some degree but there just isn't all that much slop around the locating pins and what you gain on one side you lose on the other.
I was about to call BS on the whole cradle-shift concept but I checked the CAD files and sho'nuff there is a slot in the frame mounting locations to allow for some shift. That said you're never going to add camber by moving the cradle - best you can hope to do is even it out.
The camber plates, be they Mark's, van steel's, or pfadt's still don't let you have a range of adjustment beyond the slots in the cradle. More than the factory eccentric? Maybe but probably only because there is more precision.
I was about to call BS on the whole cradle-shift concept but I checked the CAD files and sho'nuff there is a slot in the frame mounting locations to allow for some shift. That said you're never going to add camber by moving the cradle - best you can hope to do is even it out.
The cad drawing makes the holes look bigger than they are. On my 2004 Z16 the holes are very precise where there is little if any slop in the pins to the holes. This would make sense so that we would not have camber change from the craddle slipping like we do from the adjusters slipping. I can pull my entire driveline during a major service and put it back in with virtually no change in my alignment because of the precision of the frame holes relative to the locating pins. I'm a racer and I scale and align my own car.
The camber plates, be they Mark's, van steel's, or pfadt's still don't let you have a range of adjustment beyond the slots in the cradle. More than the factory eccentric? Maybe but probably only because there is more precision.
camber plates tend to give you a little more because the ecentrics operate within the craddle slots. camber plate can be made to the very end of the craddle slot and give you just a bit more. Plates are not more precise. They just hold the camber position because they can't physically move. Rough transitions on sticky tires make the eccentrics just slip.
The cad drawing makes the holes look bigger than they are. On my 2004 Z16 the holes are very precise where there is little if any slop in the pins to the holes. This would make sense so that we would not have camber change from the craddle slipping like we do from the adjusters slipping. I can pull my entire driveline during a major service and put it back in with virtually no change in my alignment because of the precision of the frame holes relative to the locating pins. I'm a racer and I scale and align my own car.
That CAD file is for a C6Z FWIW. I agree there's not as much slop as perceived when it's all bolted up n
03-14-2018, 12:41 PM
C5Z Cradle Shift tips please help
