Notices
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06 General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Kraken

[Z06] BTR3 vs BTR4 and other similar cams.

Old 06-10-2018, 01:41 PM
  #1  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default BTR3 vs BTR4 and other similar cams.

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has had both cams that can answer the following:

1. Is drivability similar?

2. How much under the curve power did you give up with the bigger cam and was it worth it?

3. If you were choosing to replace your cam would you stick with the bigger cam or go with something similar to the BTR3?

I plan to run on 93 and I am okay with giving up 10 to 15whp up top if the drivability is substantially better.

Thanks for any feedback.
Old 06-10-2018, 03:00 PM
  #2  
jayyyw
Le Mans Master
 
jayyyw's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 5,576
Received 896 Likes on 685 Posts
Default

Having second thoughts about the BTR4?

I felt my BTR3 drove very well for what it was. 18 degrees OL. I was able to take it down to like 50mph in certain places/scenerios in 6th gear. I daily drove it for 7 months with that cam and had 0 issues with it. It made right around 580/550. Made a lot of mid-range punch but died out up top. Which led me to swap it out for something larger.

I swapped to a larger cam and lost most of the drivability but to be fair, we didn't spend much time dialing that in. I couldn't drive in 6th under 75mph. Lost some mid-range/average power but gained a lot up top. I still daily drove the car for another 4-5 months with this cam and didn't have any issues.

I've spoke to a few people that went from the BTR 3 to the BTR 4 and some say the drivability was the same, some say it was worse. That's always going to vary from person to person.
Old 06-10-2018, 03:27 PM
  #3  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jayyyw
Having second thoughts about the BTR4?

I felt my BTR3 drove very well for what it was. 18 degrees OL. I was able to take it down to like 50mph in certain places/scenerios in 6th gear. I daily drove it for 7 months with that cam and had 0 issues with it. It made right around 580/550. Made a lot of mid-range punch but died out up top. Which led me to swap it out for something larger.

I swapped to a larger cam and lost most of the drivability but to be fair, we didn't spend much time dialing that in. I couldn't drive in 6th under 75mph. Lost some mid-range/average power but gained a lot up top. I still daily drove the car for another 4-5 months with this cam and didn't have any issues.

I've spoke to a few people that went from the BTR 3 to the BTR 4 and some say the drivability was the same, some say it was worse. That's always going to vary from person to person.
A little bit. I want this to be the last cam that I install in this car for a while. I current have this Cam Motion cam sitting in my garage that I have never installed. If I could see close to 600whp on it, then I would go with this one.

My Static CR is currently at 12:1 and this cam would put my DCR at 8.81 on 93, which I believe it ideal on 93 pump gas.

Check it out:
Attached Images  

Last edited by lamboworld; 06-10-2018 at 03:32 PM.
Old 06-10-2018, 03:43 PM
  #4  
SilverBulletC6Z
Instructor
 
SilverBulletC6Z's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2017
Posts: 219
Received 38 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

I had a BTR 3 for a little while and I was very happy with it, I now want to go bigger and will probably go with a BTR 4 or the new TSP 4.2. I tuned the car with efilive and did not have any bucking or surging issues with the stage 3.
Old 06-10-2018, 04:15 PM
  #5  
jayyyw
Le Mans Master
 
jayyyw's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 5,576
Received 896 Likes on 685 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by lamboworld
A little bit. I want this to be the last cam that I install in this car for a while. I current have this Cam Motion cam sitting in my garage that I have never installed. If I could see close to 600whp on it, then I would go with this one.

My Static CR is currently at 12:1 and this cam would put my DCR at 8.81 on 93, which I believe it ideal on 93 pump gas.

Check it out:
That's REAL close to the BTR 3.

BTR 3

IVO is 8.5 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 48.5 ° ABDC
EVO is 61.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 9.0 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 17.5 °

Yours

IVO is 7.9 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 50.3 ° ABDC
EVO is 63.2 ° BBDC
EVC is 8.8 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 16.7 °
Old 06-10-2018, 04:15 PM
  #6  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default

I am probably just going to install the BTR4 and call it a day, but I was just curious on thoughts between the two.
Old 06-10-2018, 04:25 PM
  #7  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jayyyw
That's REAL close to the BTR 3.

BTR 3

IVO is 8.5 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 48.5 ° ABDC
EVO is 61.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 9.0 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 17.5 °

Yours

IVO is 7.9 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 50.3 ° ABDC
EVO is 63.2 ° BBDC
EVC is 8.8 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 16.7 °

Will the BTR3 get to 600whp and pull to redline with supporting mods?

AI 280cc Heads milled to 12:1
Mamo MSD
ARH 2"
NW 102
Halltech 103
Vette Aire
Borla Atak
Old 06-10-2018, 04:48 PM
  #8  
jayyyw
Le Mans Master
 
jayyyw's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 5,576
Received 896 Likes on 685 Posts
Default

It's possible it'll touch 600 but won't surpass it by very much, if at all. It'll also peak around 62-6400. The BTR 4 should make near 620+ with your mods.
Old 06-10-2018, 05:59 PM
  #9  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default

Here are my last two cams. Both on the same dyno and same tuner with Kooks 1 7/8 headers. The 585whp cam is a Mamo spec'd cam 236/250 .650/.652 114+3

The 2nd cam, which put down 560whp, is a Pat G spec'd cam that TSP ground. 236/250 .635"/.635" 115LSA +4. Long story, but this cam was on the dyno with no oil in the transmission, so I suspect that I gave up some whp.

Both of these cams maxed at 6,200 to 6,500 but they pulled all the way to redline.

I think that my 238/252 .650"/.652" 114+3 cam should get me close to 600whp with the addition of ARH 2" headers and Vette Aire. Both of the previous cams drove pretty good and the Pat G cam drove as good as stock in IMO, even with no oil in the trans.
Attached Images   

Last edited by lamboworld; 06-10-2018 at 06:01 PM.
Old 06-10-2018, 10:43 PM
  #10  
Racingswh
Melting Slicks
 
Racingswh's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Chalfont PA
Posts: 2,956
Received 1,071 Likes on 643 Posts

Default

What was wrong with the Mamo specified cam setup? That Dyno looks great to me. Made great power and torque the whole time.

585 isn't too far off 600. Do you have a specific performance objective in mind now?
Old 06-11-2018, 12:08 AM
  #11  
Must_Have_Z
Drifting
 
Must_Have_Z's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Kaukauna WI
Posts: 1,771
Received 139 Likes on 105 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by jayyyw
I swapped to a larger cam and lost most of the drivability
Originally Posted by jayyyw
I still daily drove the car for another 4-5 months with this cam and didn't have any issues.
So you lost most of the drivability, but "didn't have any issues."

Confused...
Old 06-11-2018, 02:12 AM
  #12  
TriSum1
Advanced
 
TriSum1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Racingswh
Do you have a specific performance objective in mind now?
Ditto?
Old 06-11-2018, 07:25 AM
  #13  
lamboworld
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
 
lamboworld's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,168
Received 144 Likes on 122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Racingswh
What was wrong with the Mamo specified cam setup? That Dyno looks great to me. Made great power and torque the whole time.

585 isn't too far off 600. Do you have a specific performance objective in mind now?
The Mamo cam drove great and made good power as you indicated and maybe drove a little too good. My goal is to get to 600whp with the least amount of cam and still have decent drivability. I felt like I could go with a little more cam than the Mamo cam and still keep good drivability. I should be close to this number with 2 more degrees of overlap and switching to 2" ARH headers.

The Pat G cam is an awesome cam and it really drives like stock and I am not kidding when I say that. This cam would probably put down about 570 to 575 with oil in the trans. If any of you guys are looking for a cam that literally drives like stock, then let me know.

I have looked at a lot of cams and it seems that there is a gap from what would be considered stage 3 to stage 4 cam from all tuning companies. The gap is that there isn't many off the shelf cams that have an overlap between 17 and 25. From my experience with testing different cams it seems that the overlap sweet spot for being able to hit 600whp is between 17 and 20, with supporting mods. I basically went one step up over the Mamo cam with the Cam Motion cam that I had ground. I probably should go with a cam that has an overlap around 20, something like 240/253 113+3.

I really like the BTR cams as they are very proven, but I think that I want something between the BTR3 and BTR4. I may reach out to them today and see if they can grind me something in the middle. I am thinking of adding a little more duration to the BTR3 and keep the LSA the same to achieve an overlap of 20.

Last edited by lamboworld; 06-11-2018 at 08:01 AM.
Old 06-11-2018, 08:15 AM
  #14  
jayyyw
Le Mans Master
 
jayyyw's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 5,576
Received 896 Likes on 685 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Must_Have_Z
So you lost most of the drivability, but "didn't have any issues."

Confused...
Because it's all subjective. I didn't care for the loss in drivability in exchange for the performance gain in the higher RPM. I was still able to daily drive the car with no issues.

Last edited by jayyyw; 06-11-2018 at 08:17 AM.
Old 06-11-2018, 08:31 AM
  #15  
TXGS507
Race Director
 
TXGS507's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2006
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere at all
Posts: 15,357
Received 1,679 Likes on 1,135 Posts

Default

560 aint no slouch..... could than money be spent on other bolt ons? What all is done to your car...?
Old 06-11-2018, 08:59 AM
  #16  
Must_Have_Z
Drifting
 
Must_Have_Z's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Kaukauna WI
Posts: 1,771
Received 139 Likes on 105 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by jayyyw
Because it's all subjective. I didn't care for the loss in drivability in exchange for the performance gain in the higher RPM. I was still able to daily drive the car with no issues.
Makes sense.

My little custom cam (similar to BTR2) puts out 560/485 and I don't think I'd go any bigger for a street driven car where drivability is a priority. She only bucks a tiny bit at low speeds when I'm in too high of a gear (even the stock cam will do that). The power is awesome after 3000 RPM and still drives like a kitten when just cruising around.
Old 06-11-2018, 09:10 AM
  #17  
UH-60DRIVER
Pro

 
UH-60DRIVER's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2013
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 86 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

I will tell you it's ALL in the tune. I have a BTR4 and am remote tuning with one of the top tuners in America (Fran@RaceProvenMotorsports) and it runs great. Minimal surge vs a buddy of mine just put in a BTR3 and had it locally tuned. Drives and runs like ****.

Last edited by UH-60DRIVER; 06-11-2018 at 09:12 AM.

Get notified of new replies

To BTR3 vs BTR4 and other similar cams.

Old 06-11-2018, 09:44 AM
  #18  
cmb396
Le Mans Master
 
cmb396's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2001
Location: West "By God" Virginia
Posts: 6,696
Received 333 Likes on 140 Posts
CI 7-8-9-10 Veteran

Default

Does anyone have a dyno of a BTR3 compared to a 4 with all the same supporting mods? What is the difference in the characteristics of the two?
I am on the fence and about to order a 3, but could easily just go with a 4. My car is not a dd, rarely gets driven at all tbh. Just an occasional weekend warrior.
May start doing some SCCA for ***** and giggles, how do these cams do with that?
Old 06-11-2018, 10:13 AM
  #19  
Unreal
Team Owner
 
Unreal's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2007
Location: Gilbert AZ
Posts: 24,035
Received 2,313 Likes on 1,793 Posts

Default

Chasing a number and giving up driveability on the way there is such a common mistake. If you want 600, find a nice dyno, done. Then you can tell everyone you have 600rwhp. I would never run something like a BTR4 on a daily driver/street car, even if you can get use to it. Once you go back and drive a smaller cam, you realize how much you are giving up.

I would stay with what you have, and enjoy, and focus on supporting mods, traction, suspension, and making a nicer driving car.
The following users liked this post:
Millenium Z06 (06-11-2018)
Old 06-11-2018, 10:20 AM
  #20  
Racingswh
Melting Slicks
 
Racingswh's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Chalfont PA
Posts: 2,956
Received 1,071 Likes on 643 Posts

Default

Looks like you already had one that made damn near 600? Not that I am complaining. I don't mind people trying new stuff on their cars.

Personally I would have stuck with the Mamo cam myself.

I am with Unreal 100% though. If the car drives great now I would leave it alone.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s-btr-4-a.html

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: [Z06] BTR3 vs BTR4 and other similar cams.



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:40 PM.