[C2] High horsepower small blocks
06-19-2018, 08:24 PM
#1
Racer
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High horsepower small blocks
I've always believed that the 365 hp small block and the fuelie 375 hp engines were exactly the same except for the induction systems. Is this correct?
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06-22-2018, 09:02 AM
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Yes.
Some of the quickest cars in my high school era were a 63' Chevy 2 with a 340hp/327, and a 67' Nova with a 375hp/396. These cars mixed it up with built 289 Falcons and Comets, and built 340 Darts and Barracuda bodies (all of which were thought of as cheap economy cars with straight six engines. Some of these cheap small blocks with 4.56 gears were terribly quick, running mid-12 second ET's.
I tested many of these cars in my 12.5-14 second ET 70' GTO (depending on engine trim, N2O, and tire), and lost, before raising the win stakes to beat them in a friends 68' Camaro with a 427 and 5.13 gears.
Have you priced 63-67 Nova's lately?
Some of the quickest cars in my high school era were a 63' Chevy 2 with a 340hp/327, and a 67' Nova with a 375hp/396. These cars mixed it up with built 289 Falcons and Comets, and built 340 Darts and Barracuda bodies (all of which were thought of as cheap economy cars with straight six engines. Some of these cheap small blocks with 4.56 gears were terribly quick, running mid-12 second ET's.
I tested many of these cars in my 12.5-14 second ET 70' GTO (depending on engine trim, N2O, and tire), and lost, before raising the win stakes to beat them in a friends 68' Camaro with a 427 and 5.13 gears.
Have you priced 63-67 Nova's lately?
My 1965 version of what you're talking about. Brand new car. '65 Nova SS. 327/375 (with the FI). 8.00X14 M&H, M 20, 3.08 gears. No traction control on the pavement. No money for headers or gear change. Only one timed run on 1/4. 12.6 @110.
Several years later, with headers, slapper bars, same M&H tires and 5.14 gears, the car would run 7.80's in 1/8 mile. Again, no traction control.
Car is currently under complete restoration.
06-19-2018, 08:33 PM
#3
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Yeah. Why are you mystified?
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vark_wso (06-20-2018)
06-20-2018, 12:41 PM
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Well let me start a rumor. The gossip I have read is that the Big Block Corvettes came about as Chevy found it cheaper to build and install Big Block motors than to make improvements to the small blocks for the same power increase. The FI was a bit complicated and expensive and further improvements for more power would be even worse/more expensive and complicated. And you can see what Chevy had to do for more power/performance with an entirely new platform of the LS series motors.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
06-20-2018, 02:47 PM
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Well let me start a rumor. The gossip I have read is that the Big Block Corvettes came about as Chevy found it cheaper to build and install Big Block motors than to make improvements to the small blocks for the same power increase. The FI was a bit complicated and expensive and further improvements for more power would be even worse/more expensive and complicated. And you can see what Chevy had to do for more power/performance with an entirely new platform of the LS series motors.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
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marshal135 (10-28-2021)
06-20-2018, 02:59 PM
#7
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The horsepower wars, gentleman. The high water mark was the late 60s. Many of the forum members lived through it. Each year was a competition to see who could make a bigger bad *** engine.
It cut across all marques within the Big 3. Horsepower sold cars. It was as much marketing as it was anything else. Look at the production numbers for that period among muscle.
The much vaunted 427 Cobra was created because Shelby was concerned that GM was working on a large displacement engine for the Corvette in '65. That was a threat to his 289 cars. It was all about competition--among all manufacturers, even one like Shelby who was only producing a handful of cars a day. The 427 Cobra was one of the most iconic cars every built, but it will never be remembered for its handling, braking or FIA wins (which it had none). It is the "427" for which it will always be remembered and its straight line performance.
Image is everything.
It cut across all marques within the Big 3. Horsepower sold cars. It was as much marketing as it was anything else. Look at the production numbers for that period among muscle.
The much vaunted 427 Cobra was created because Shelby was concerned that GM was working on a large displacement engine for the Corvette in '65. That was a threat to his 289 cars. It was all about competition--among all manufacturers, even one like Shelby who was only producing a handful of cars a day. The 427 Cobra was one of the most iconic cars every built, but it will never be remembered for its handling, braking or FIA wins (which it had none). It is the "427" for which it will always be remembered and its straight line performance.
Image is everything.
Last edited by Dan Hampton; 06-20-2018 at 03:04 PM.
06-20-2018, 03:19 PM
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Don't forget the king of the gen-1 SBCs, the 1970 LT-1.
370hp without FI.
370hp without FI.
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zebebad (05-26-2023)
06-20-2018, 03:43 PM
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Don't forget that GM knew that Ford was improving the 7-Liter FE427 effort to win the Sports Car Endurance Championship events, and Chrysler was winning at the drag strips with their new 426 Hemi. Nobody at the time the Chevrolet big block was designed expected any of these big engines to be placed in anything but full size car bodies in NASCAR. In a period of a very few years these big engines were options in Mustang, Barracuda, and Nova chassis platforms that were initially lightweight economy cars. It didn't matter that a built 302, or 340, or 327, could deliver a reliable 450 hp package (knowing that the 427 GT40 engines were detuned to ~485hp to last through the 24-hour races). The marketing word in the 60's was bigger is better.
Having a lightweight Cobra beat the Corvette on a road course was disappointing, but to get beat in a stop light challenge by a Nova or Comet was outright criminal.
Having a lightweight Cobra beat the Corvette on a road course was disappointing, but to get beat in a stop light challenge by a Nova or Comet was outright criminal.
06-20-2018, 03:51 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
For the new 65 model, the fuel injected Corvette engine was to be advertised/rated at 385 HP instead of 375. Also, the 365 HP L76 engine was to be rated at 375 HP. At the last minute, those changes were canceled and changed back to the original 365 and 375. Image is from GM/Chevrolet new products information sent to dealers. Also interesting that an L76 and L79 were scheduled for Nova.
Last edited by Critter1; 06-20-2018 at 03:57 PM.
06-20-2018, 04:31 PM
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A friend of mine has an original 1965 Chevelle SS 396 Z-16. Black on black. He's had it 40 years. One of 201 or so made. NEAT car!! And when it comes to big inches, let's not leave out the Pontiacs of the era: 421--428--455. Torque monsters, all of 'em.
06-20-2018, 05:33 PM
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For the new 65 model, the fuel injected Corvette engine was to be advertised/rated at 385 HP instead of 375. Also, the 365 HP L76 engine was to be rated at 375 HP. At the last minute, those changes were canceled and changed back to the original 365 and 375. Image is from GM/Chevrolet new products information sent to dealers. Also interesting that an L76 and L79 were scheduled for Nova.
06-20-2018, 06:04 PM
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06-20-2018, 06:39 PM
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06-20-2018, 07:21 PM
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For the new 65 model, the fuel injected Corvette engine was to be advertised/rated at 385 HP instead of 375. Also, the 365 HP L76 engine was to be rated at 375 HP. At the last minute, those changes were canceled and changed back to the original 365 and 375. Image is from GM/Chevrolet new products information sent to dealers. Also interesting that an L76 and L79 were scheduled for Nova.
06-20-2018, 07:41 PM
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I never heard that before but every year for pre production sales literature there are always things that never made it into production that was printed. Just chalk it up to things that never where