cam recom
09-10-2018, 04:41 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
cam recom
Hey guys, I'm going to go into my recently built 388 stroker. i have a ring issue in two cylinders i am going fix. I came across some heads that i will be swapping into my 383 now. The heads are brodix ik200. compression is 10.9:1. I do not run nothing off vacuum (hydrboost breaks ,l88 style headlights). I will be installing holley sniper after i fix the issue with the rings. I am waiting on comp cams to get back at me so i figured id ask the many experienced people in here. It will be a hydraulic roller set up.I have a manual transmission (t56) and 3.55 ratio rear end. Thanks in advance 
09-10-2018, 06:24 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/i...2294/overview/
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
Last edited by cv67; 09-10-2018 at 06:30 PM.
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Bigeddie (09-11-2018)
09-10-2018, 07:13 PM
#3
Racer
I have a comp hydraulic roller XR282HR in my 406. Great cam, with 10:1 compression, and Dart Iron eagle 200 runners...
It is not radical by any stretch,if that is what you are looking for, but I am pretty thrilled with it. Connected to a Muncie M20 and 3.73 gears...
It is not radical by any stretch,if that is what you are looking for, but I am pretty thrilled with it. Connected to a Muncie M20 and 3.73 gears...
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Bigeddie (09-11-2018)
09-11-2018, 01:17 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
For comparison purposes i have some random heads(aluminum 195 cc 65 cc combustion chamber) and a solid roller cam.268AR which has 224 duration @50 and .525 valve lift on a 110 lobe separation angle. i do want something a little more on the wild side as long as it doesn't affect performance a lot. Thank you for your advice so far. keep it coming !
09-11-2018, 10:37 AM
#5
Keep in mind that even though you don't have any vacuum accessories, you still want to have some decent idle Vacuum for that Holley Sniper. It might vary depending on the manufacturer of the EFI, but I'm in the process of installing FAST EFI on my car right now and they reccomend having 10" vacuum at idle, presumably to give a good consistent signal to the regulator.
So go big with the cam, but maybe not TOO big!
So go big with the cam, but maybe not TOO big!
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Bigeddie (09-11-2018)
09-11-2018, 12:32 PM
#6
Instructor
Hey guys, I'm going to go into my recently built 388 stroker. i have a ring issue in two cylinders i am going fix. I came across some heads that i will be swapping into my 383 now. The heads are brodix ik200. compression is 10.9:1. I do not run nothing off vacuum (hydrboost breaks ,l88 style headlights). I will be installing holley sniper after i fix the issue with the rings. I am waiting on comp cams to get back at me so i figured id ask the many experienced people in here. It will be a hydraulic roller set up.I have a manual transmission (t56) and 3.55 ratio rear end. Thanks in advance
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
09-13-2018, 01:30 PM
#7
Race Director
Keep in mind that even though you don't have any vacuum accessories, you still want to have some decent idle Vacuum for that Holley Sniper. It might vary depending on the manufacturer of the EFI, but I'm in the process of installing FAST EFI on my car right now and they reccomend having 10" vacuum at idle, presumably to give a good consistent signal to the regulator.
So go big with the cam, but maybe not TOO big!
So go big with the cam, but maybe not TOO big!
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
09-17-2018, 01:03 PM
#9
Team Owner
I built my first 383 roller motor with -7cc forged flat top two valve relief pistons. .040 quench .015 cometic MLS gaskets. 64 cc heads. Calculated to @ 10.86 C/R I bought an off the shelf 232/238 112 SR crane cam. The cam valve events were 4 degrees retarded compared to the comp cams XE line. It was always on the edge of detonation with a really high DCR. It also was just a little too tame for me.
My third cam has always been a charm and I've continued to use it on several refreshes. I picked the lobes out of the comp cams lobe profile PDF. The lobes have 236/242 @ .050 the lobes are more aggressive than the XE series, so the comparative .200 numbers puts it at XE cams with about 242/248 duration numbers. solid rollers can follow aggressive lobes.
If you are getting a cam I suggest buying a billet steel sleeved on dizzy gear with the XE lobes for HR. I also have a 4/7 swap firing order. it sounds distinctive because it is a Ford firing order. Not that it gains power, but maybe less crankshaft harmonics. Have it ground on 112 lc and use 1.6 intake rockers and 1.5 exhaust with beehive springs with about 140# closed . Use a polymer fuel pump push rod from Speedway motors.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Howar...od,277721.html
My third cam has always been a charm and I've continued to use it on several refreshes. I picked the lobes out of the comp cams lobe profile PDF. The lobes have 236/242 @ .050 the lobes are more aggressive than the XE series, so the comparative .200 numbers puts it at XE cams with about 242/248 duration numbers. solid rollers can follow aggressive lobes.
If you are getting a cam I suggest buying a billet steel sleeved on dizzy gear with the XE lobes for HR. I also have a 4/7 swap firing order. it sounds distinctive because it is a Ford firing order. Not that it gains power, but maybe less crankshaft harmonics. Have it ground on 112 lc and use 1.6 intake rockers and 1.5 exhaust with beehive springs with about 140# closed . Use a polymer fuel pump push rod from Speedway motors.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Howar...od,277721.html
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
09-17-2018, 01:21 PM
#10
Team Owner
presently I have AFR 210 heads on my combo. The IK200 are low on the flow side where the IK210 cc are a better match for a 388 ci motor. 210 cylinder head is capable of supporting more than 500 naturally aspirated horsepower and a 236/242 can make over 500
http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-bloc...eads/ik-series
http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-bloc...eads/ik-series
Last edited by gkull; 09-17-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
09-17-2018, 02:30 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
09-17-2018, 02:38 PM
#13
I have been down the FAST EZ-EFI road... Change out to a EZ-XFI.... you will still use the same throttle body. and it still has self learning... BUT... you have MUCH more adjustability in all RPM ranges, and even more importantly, you can do graphic downloads to your computer in real time and record it... this is an AMAZING trouble shooting tool.. Without it you just guess in the dark...
So you can use the EZ throttle body with the XFI ECU? THat is pretty slick. The XFI is the one that can read a 2-3 bar map sensor and therefore could adjust for running boost right?
09-17-2018, 02:54 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/i...2294/overview/
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
(David Vizard's formula for a 383 where vacuum is not a factor says the ideal LSA for peak power is 106.5.)
Adam
09-17-2018, 03:32 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/i...2294/overview/
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
May be a few deg big depending on what you can tolerate but if your CR is about 11:1 then....if you call Ron over there he could pick you a better one..sorry not a fan of comp.
Crower has some old timers that will give good recommendations too.
You'll need really good lifters and good springs to go with his most aggressive EHR hydraulic roller cam lobes, but you'll get the most power you can get with the vaccum you need and you'll get an LSA that's picked for your goals, and an exhaust duration that's custom tailored to your exhaust system.
EHR72360 is 280 Advertised / .006", 234 @ 0.050", .540" lift with 1.5 rockers; .576 w 1.6" rockers; it will be ground on whatever LSA Mike decides for your goals and he'll adjust the exhaust duration based upon what you tell him about your exhaust. -From what I've seen he usually puts LESS lift on the exhaust vs the intake side.
Adam
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Bigeddie (09-17-2018)
09-17-2018, 04:03 PM
#16
Race Director
That sounds awesome! And is a strong possibility in the future since I would like to go forced induction eventually. At the moment I'm using the EZ because I got it cheap (wouldn't have been able to go EFI for quite a while if I hadn't stumbled on that deal). I did quite a bit of research on all the problems people have had with it, and have been very careful to make sure the ECU is getting a good clean digital tach signal (most of the problems with the EZ ended up being either a bad tach signal, a WRONG tach signal, or a "dirty" signal from the ECU being too close to either the plug wires or distributor/coil), kept all my wiring as far from the distributor as possible, and have dedicated connections for everything electrical. First fire up will be either tonight or tomorrow so we will see!
So you can use the EZ throttle body with the XFI ECU? THat is pretty slick. The XFI is the one that can read a 2-3 bar map sensor and therefore could adjust for running boost right?
So you can use the EZ throttle body with the XFI ECU? THat is pretty slick. The XFI is the one that can read a 2-3 bar map sensor and therefore could adjust for running boost right?
yes
09-17-2018, 04:53 PM
#17
Team Owner
Cuisineart, given that he's got a 388 and doesn't need any vacuum accessories, wouldn't a closer LSA make both more peak torque and more peak HP although in a slightly less wide RPM spread?
(David Vizard's formula for a 383 where vacuum is not a factor says the ideal LSA for peak power is 106.5.)
Adam
(David Vizard's formula for a 383 where vacuum is not a factor says the ideal LSA for peak power is 106.5.)
Adam
Call and Price the off the shelf XR288HR. Then ask about how much the nitriding coating would cost. Then ask about the 4/7 firing order swap price. Price a billet steel with a 4/7 swap and sleeved on dizzy gear. You need that to use standard distributor gears. Ask about changing the lobe Center to 112 instead of 110. This just decreases overlap by 2 degrees for increased idle quality and MPG.
The other thing is stroker motors need a small base circle cam so that the lobes don't hit the big end of the rods bolts. a small base cam may have a .900 inch base circle the standard cams will be closer to a 1.060 I try to get the base circle close to .950 - .960. The larger is easier on the roller wheels and the cam core is stronger while still giving rod clearance
My cam is ground for the 4/7 and all you have to do is change the order of the spark plug wires. The firing order of all small-block Chevy engines, is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. My firing order is 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2
Last edited by gkull; 09-17-2018 at 04:54 PM.
09-17-2018, 05:21 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
I run a 108 LSA on my 350 with .549 lift but lower duration of 219@.050. Suffers no real loss of mpg with that 108. I get 19 mpg @ 80 mph turning 3700-3800 rpm. Low end is decent, mid range is great and top end is still decent.
idle quality is good once you work out the timing on the vacuum and get enough bypass air for idle. I get 14” of vacuum @ 800 rpm @ 4000 ft elevation.
i think a 107 or 106 LSA on a 383 would work really well as long as you didn’t go crazy on the duration and lifted the valve at least .0550”.
something like a 225- 228ish@ .050 with .560 lift on a 106, 278ish or so advertised duration, should give good power especially mid range and still return reasonable fuel mileage.
a little more radical might be 230ish @ 050 with .570 lift on a 106, 282ish advertised duration, sacrificing some fuel economy and idle quality.
these are vizard type numbers.
my cam is a vizard cam and it works well. Low back pressure on the exhaust may be helping. Running side pipes.
getting well over 400 hp on original bore 350 and rpm does not hesitate to go right up to valve float of 6300.
idle quality is good once you work out the timing on the vacuum and get enough bypass air for idle. I get 14” of vacuum @ 800 rpm @ 4000 ft elevation.
i think a 107 or 106 LSA on a 383 would work really well as long as you didn’t go crazy on the duration and lifted the valve at least .0550”.
something like a 225- 228ish@ .050 with .560 lift on a 106, 278ish or so advertised duration, should give good power especially mid range and still return reasonable fuel mileage.
a little more radical might be 230ish @ 050 with .570 lift on a 106, 282ish advertised duration, sacrificing some fuel economy and idle quality.
these are vizard type numbers.
my cam is a vizard cam and it works well. Low back pressure on the exhaust may be helping. Running side pipes.
getting well over 400 hp on original bore 350 and rpm does not hesitate to go right up to valve float of 6300.
Last edited by REELAV8R; 09-17-2018 at 05:26 PM.
09-17-2018, 08:22 PM
#19
Team Owner
i think a 107 or 106 LSA on a 383 would work really well as long as you didn’t go crazy on the duration and lifted the valve at least .0550”.
something like a 225- 228ish@ .050 with .560 lift on a 106, 278ish or so advertised duration, should give good power especially mid range and still return reasonable fuel mileage.
a little more radical might be 230ish @ 050 with .570 lift on a 106, 282ish advertised duration, sacrificing some fuel economy and idle quality.
The problem with small duration cams is that they won't work with 10.9 C/R. Instead of trusting vizard you would be better of getting some good engine simulation program and juggle the LC Programs that you have to input CFM of head flow for .050 increments. I have spent 100's of man hours on these programs and the winner for the highest average was always for a hot street engine the higher duration, widest LC, retarded valve events to keep intake reversion down, and the highest lift to keep the valves flowing at the heads highest CFM area. But on the flip side these ideas might run the best over 3000 rpm to what ever red line. So my 383 has over .620 lift
09-18-2018, 07:28 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I appreciate all the input fellas. I have narrowed it down to these three comp cams.XR288HR, XR294HR,and 292XFI HR13. i emailed a few of the people some of you have suggested and waiting for a reply(maybe i should have called). Just as an update. it is a 388 stroker with 10.9 compression. I will have brodix ik200 heads and a edelbrock victor jr single plane intake. I have a 6 speed manual and a 3.55 rear end, and of course i will be converting to a roller set up