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Is there anything else that can be done to improve my HPDE C5Z?
Hi folks,
I’ve got an HPDE prepped C5Z and besides attending more track days what else can I do to the car to improve in the handling department whether it be chassis stiffening or something else?
Keep in mind I don’t trailer the car and it is still a daily driver so I don’t want anything that would make it strictly for the track. Below is my mod list:
• GM T1 front/rear sway bars with LG end links
• GM T1 front upper/lower control arms
• GM racing hubs
• LG G2 Coilovers
• LG longtube pros with high flow cats
• 6 piston Wilwood front brake kit with StopTech 2 piece AeroRotors and stainless lines
• DRM brake cooling ducts, plumbed in with Skeet Tubing
• OEM staggered C5Z wheels 275/40/17 RA1s and 305/35/18 NT555R Gen2s
• Oil cooler plumbed in behind front license plate door with screen cover
• DeWitts high flow radiator
• Unitrax Getrag extreme Diff with 3.73 gears
• Elite Engineering radiator screen, heel toe gas and dead pedals and PVC catch can
• B&M short shifter
• Phoenix Performance folding front/rear tow hooks
• High flow air intake kit
• Race alignment/corner weighting done by professional race shop.
you're missing the things that should be done first.
harness bar,harness,seats
tires
brakes (you already have)
with those mods and seat time the c5z can be very fast
next on the list i would do coolers on the trans and diff
There's nothing on your list about safety. Why not?
Harness bar? harnesses? Firebottle?
I don’t go to the track enough (1-2 times a year) but will add those as I go more consistently. I only have halon extinguisher mounted to passenger seat.
I'd say an accusump would be a good addition, and maybe some better tires.
That said, I agree with the others, get some better seats and a harness bar. Even sport seats with harnesses would be a huge upgrade. In a c5 you can get those recaro seats and not have to worry about side airbags or anything. They're good enough for road use and you'll be amazed at the improvement they make
I agree with the others on seats and safety gear. I put sparco evo 2's in my car and it makes a world of difference.
I would suggest control arm bushings with that list of suspension items you have. My car started to squeeze the oems out pretty early on in my skill/capability development. I have ridetech Delrin bushings, there are many options
I'd say an accusump would be a good addition, and maybe some better tires.
That said, I agree with the others, get some better seats and a harness bar. Even sport seats with harnesses would be a huge upgrade. In a c5 you can get those recaro seats and not have to worry about side airbags or anything. They're good enough for road use and you'll be amazed at the improvement they make
Which Recaros are you referring to? I've been scouting seats for mine because I end up with a sore leg and back after track days from bracing so hard.
Hi, nice meeting you yesterday. Thanks for accommodating me on the pick up time. Generally I assume someone selling track stuff may be getting out of tracking but if you are still looking to improve the car, may I ask why you sold me your 18" Speedlines to run 17" in the front? And why you are selling new tires? As for seats, I installed Corbeaus in my car with adjustable backs and seat tracks and they are still no match for the stock seats when it comes to street comfort and getting in and out of the car. I have both stock belts and a 5 point system with harness bar. I can understand your resistance to changing the seats for a daily driver. Personally, I was fine doing the seat belt locking trick and then running the seat up to tighten the belt more and wedging my knees into the dash. Going to a racier seat and harness didn't improve my laps times or make me feel any more in control. It just made my passengers and myself safer. My answer to your question about improving handling is get a second set of wheels for the track with Hoosiers or similar. There is nothing that beats the feeling of massive mechanical grip, IMHO.
Hey, here's my $0.02 on this:
- Your car has lots of nice parts. You've done most of the 'fun' mods, which is why most of the suggestions are comparatively 'boring' ones:
- Seats/bar/etc, as above. I know, expensive, and no HP gained. But you have to think seriously about safety. Even if you only track once a year, it only takes a split second error--perhaps not even your fault--and things can head south. The good thing is that most safety gear has decent resale value so think of it more as a 'deposit' than cash down the drain.
- Driving coach: I don't know if you run open lapping or HPDE, but if you don't run through a recognized HPDE program with instruction, run groups, tech inspections, classroom/skidpad sessions, etc., you really should. It keeps you safer and puts you miles ahead of the open lapping/self-taught guys in way less time. I run with BMWCCA here in Canada, and the events are even tax deductible as tuition, which helps offset the price. Having an in-car instructor to work with is absolutely they best bang for buck mod a track guy can do, and best of all, when you improve yourself you can carry that into any car or situation, unlike doing swaybars or a wing.
Hi, nice meeting you yesterday. Thanks for accommodating me on the pick up time. Generally I assume someone selling track stuff may be getting out of tracking but if you are still looking to improve the car, may I ask why you sold me your 18" Speedlines to run 17" in the front? And why you are selling new tires? As for seats, I installed Corbeaus in my car with adjustable backs and seat tracks and they are still no match for the stock seats when it comes to street comfort and getting in and out of the car. I have both stock belts and a 5 point system with harness bar. I can understand your resistance to changing the seats for a daily driver. Personally, I was fine doing the seat belt locking trick and then running the seat up to tighten the belt more and wedging my knees into the dash. Going to a racier seat and harness didn't improve my laps times or make me feel any more in control. It just made my passengers and myself safer. My answer to your question about improving handling is get a second set of wheels for the track with Hoosiers or similar. There is nothing that beats the feeling of massive mechanical grip, IMHO.
It was nice meeting you sorry you had to wait a bit. I am selling the OEM speedlines and NT01 tires because I am going CCW/Fikse wheels and looking for a squared setup with Michelin Super Pilots for both daily driving/track driving (I put less than 2,000 miles a year since this is a garage queen for the most part).
I have no aspirations to become competitive HPDE but would like to enjoy it at a leisurely pace. I will definitely look at racing seats/harness/harness bar in the very near future.
Hey, here's my $0.02 on this:
- Your car has lots of nice parts. You've done most of the 'fun' mods, which is why most of the suggestions are comparatively 'boring' ones:
- Seats/bar/etc, as above. I know, expensive, and no HP gained. But you have to think seriously about safety. Even if you only track once a year, it only takes a split second error--perhaps not even your fault--and things can head south. The good thing is that most safety gear has decent resale value so think of it more as a 'deposit' than cash down the drain.
- Driving coach: I don't know if you run open lapping or HPDE, but if you don't run through a recognized HPDE program with instruction, run groups, tech inspections, classroom/skidpad sessions, etc., you really should. It keeps you safer and puts you miles ahead of the open lapping/self-taught guys in way less time. I run with BMWCCA here in Canada, and the events are even tax deductible as tuition, which helps offset the price. Having an in-car instructor to work with is absolutely they best bang for buck mod a track guy can do, and best of all, when you improve yourself you can carry that into any car or situation, unlike doing swaybars or a wing.
Hope this helps & enjoy the ride!
I am a total noob to HPDE (although I have a few events under my belt) but I will look at a clasroom/skidpad for the next event. I live 20 minutes from Willow Springs so I have that incentive.
Last edited by s2kpunisher; 09-17-2018 at 12:42 PM.
I would run a square set up. 315/30-18....even if it is daily driven. The car looks a lot better also.
Do you know which CCW/Fikse squared setup would allow me to run that size? I want to avoid fender rubbing (I am lowered 1"-1.5" with LG G2) and I have the Wilwood SL6 BBK.
It was nice meeting you sorry you had to wait a bit. I am selling the OEM speedlines and NT01 tires because I am going CCW/Fikse wheels and looking for a squared setup with Michelin Super Pilots for both daily driving/track driving
As a dissenting opinion, I don't like harnesses until there is a cage. I also don't buy used safety equipment, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it.
I would consider wider tire/wheel combos up to and including a 315 fronts and a 335 rear (with mini-tub possibly). I like square set-ups but it's not a hill I'd die on and more rear tire is you on the power sooner. I assume you are leaving something on the table using the drag radials, but I don't have experience with them and know that many have run them as an all purpose tire.
Weight reduction that is daily drive-able tolerant is there but limited (new seats, ditch rear speakers, some of the sound deadening, ...)
Speculating from your post there is likely a lot more to be had with your suspension tuning, but since you're asking then you likely don't have the knowledge base to do it yourself (different spring rates, damper adjustments, swaybar configurations, etc to complement your driving style)
You said chassis improvements but then added hp related parts in your list. Heads and Cam would be on my list to get more HP on the high RPM side.
Folks I forgot to preface this post by saying I bought this as-is about a month ago from an avid HPDE enthusiast. So improvements on the setup is appreciated but have to take into consideration it has to be street legal/daily drivable. Some of you might say you can't have both either keep it street only or track only but we all pick our poisons
Last edited by s2kpunisher; 09-17-2018 at 02:14 PM.
Do you know which CCW/Fikse squared setup would allow me to run that size? I want to avoid fender rubbing (I am lowered 1"-1.5" with LG G2) and I have the Wilwood SL6 BBK.
I run 18x11 Forgelines all the way around with brake cooling ducts up front, and I only rub at close to full lock.
Folks I forgot to preface this post by saying I bought this as-is about a month ago from an avid HPDE enthusiast. So improvements on the setup is appreciated but have to take into consideration it has to be street legal/daily drivable. Some of you might say you can't have both either keep it street only or track only but we all pick our poisons
There's no reason why you can't have a bar like a Brey-Krause harness bar with a set of good belts on snap-in mounts and then be both comfortable both ways, using your regular belts daily, and more have a more secure and safer in an HPDE. You do 1-2 track events a year and want more? 1 track event is 40 laps - ish? 10 turns per lap? So each event is 400 braking zones and 400 turns where you're fighting to stay in the seat thus 800 opportunities to turn a small mistake into a big one where you wish you'd bought a proper set of safety gear a long time ago.
09-16-2018, 04:23 PM
Is there anything else that can be done to improve my HPDE C5Z?
