Open Title ?
10-19-2018, 12:56 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Open Title ?
i looked at a nice '69 roadster yesterday that I am considering buying. I think the owner bought it with the intention of reselling. I'm okay with that but he never titled it in his name. He does have the correct title for the car with the correct signature on it with no date or price. I am wondering if there are any problems in buying with this kind of title. The seller seems like a nice guy and I get that he wanted to avoid paying a sales tax on a car he planned to flip. Just wondering if anyone else has a bought a car in this situation and if there were any problems.
10-19-2018, 01:02 PM
#2
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My advice would be to check with the DMV to see what the actual title laws are. That said, you may want to ask why the owner never titled the car in his name.
10-19-2018, 01:12 PM
#3
Drifting
that is technically not legal, though people do it everyday.
I've bought a car like that without issue is PA bringing a car in from another state, never with a car already in PA since PA is so strict. .
If it was a car you were dead set on buying, I would put something in writing that the sale was contingent on you getting the clean and clear title in your name.
I've bought a car like that without issue is PA bringing a car in from another state, never with a car already in PA since PA is so strict. .
If it was a car you were dead set on buying, I would put something in writing that the sale was contingent on you getting the clean and clear title in your name.
10-19-2018, 01:31 PM
#4
Race Director
Go to the DMV, tag service, whatever with the title and a certified check for agreed price. If title flies, hand him the check. Odds are near 100% it is good.
10-19-2018, 01:43 PM
#5
Team Owner
Your DMV in your state is the only one who can answer that question.
10-19-2018, 02:38 PM
#7
The other thing the DMV can check with in regards to the title is if it's the current title and not a duplicate. In MN by law as the seller you have to tear off a portion of the title, fill out the buyers name and address and send it in to the state.
10-19-2018, 03:18 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice. Chances are it wouldn't be a problem but I think I need to get in contact with the person named on the title before I proceed. The seller and person on the title both live close. If I decide to buy maybe I can get the titled individual to sign a statement that he no longer has any ownership interest in the car.
10-19-2018, 04:36 PM
#9
Pro
I practiced criminal law for 38 years. Almost all was as a defense attorney but my last gig was as a prosecutor. I ALWAYS filled in the title when I traded a car. Some dealers didn't like it but I said no way am I giving you an open title. There could be insurance issues or something wrong with the title. As others have said check thoroughly with your DMV.
10-19-2018, 06:56 PM
#10
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Theres a name for it, "curbstoning"
Here in florida its illegal to both leave it open and to buy with it open unless a legitimate dealer.
Im not a lawyer just superstitious and i know people do all kinds of illegal stuff daily and do not get caught doesnt mean i want in on it those risks.
In the case of a vehicle with an open title it took a possessor or several possessors out of the paper trail, and look at this angle my DMV explained to me.
Tom sells car with open title to dick the off the radar flipper, the car is still in toms name, hes still liable,
Now who knows what dick did to the car, we know he likes to skirt things not placing title in his name but can we trust him on other matters?
During this open title limbo tom could contest it.
Now harry wants to buy the car, when he places his name on that open title there is a part stating that harry is swearing to his knowledge all the information is correct, in signing it Harry just lied, because the title is in toms name a guy he never met and hes not buying from tom hes buying from dick, so harry has to be okay with signing his name to a lie which is in turn part of an illegal activity
I wont sell a car open title or buy one open title im just too superstitious,
I would ask the seller to get the title in their name and i will buy it,
Way too many cars to choose from to risk problems by breaking the law but thats just me.
And if dick wants to buy cars to flip, he shouldnt cheesedick it he should either title them in his name or get a dealers license.
It boils down to if your state is same as florida and if so you are okay breaking the law.
Here in florida its illegal to both leave it open and to buy with it open unless a legitimate dealer.
Im not a lawyer just superstitious and i know people do all kinds of illegal stuff daily and do not get caught doesnt mean i want in on it those risks.
In the case of a vehicle with an open title it took a possessor or several possessors out of the paper trail, and look at this angle my DMV explained to me.
Tom sells car with open title to dick the off the radar flipper, the car is still in toms name, hes still liable,
Now who knows what dick did to the car, we know he likes to skirt things not placing title in his name but can we trust him on other matters?
During this open title limbo tom could contest it.
Now harry wants to buy the car, when he places his name on that open title there is a part stating that harry is swearing to his knowledge all the information is correct, in signing it Harry just lied, because the title is in toms name a guy he never met and hes not buying from tom hes buying from dick, so harry has to be okay with signing his name to a lie which is in turn part of an illegal activity
I wont sell a car open title or buy one open title im just too superstitious,
I would ask the seller to get the title in their name and i will buy it,
Way too many cars to choose from to risk problems by breaking the law but thats just me.
And if dick wants to buy cars to flip, he shouldnt cheesedick it he should either title them in his name or get a dealers license.
It boils down to if your state is same as florida and if so you are okay breaking the law.
Last edited by The13Bats; 10-19-2018 at 06:59 PM.
10-19-2018, 10:47 PM
#12
Safety Car
if the guys name is not on the title, he does not own the car. simple as that.
if there is a bad trail or something branded on it, then you are screwed. the previous owner to the seller did his duty in good faith, the current owner did not.. the previous owner does not want to hear from you.
lower the price for the car accordingly for the risk you are taking.
put an exception in the sale contract that given that the car title is not clear and marketable, then you can return it for a full refund.
if you call the dmv and ask any questions, they may flag the vin and you are again screwed.
if there is a bad trail or something branded on it, then you are screwed. the previous owner to the seller did his duty in good faith, the current owner did not.. the previous owner does not want to hear from you.
lower the price for the car accordingly for the risk you are taking.
put an exception in the sale contract that given that the car title is not clear and marketable, then you can return it for a full refund.
if you call the dmv and ask any questions, they may flag the vin and you are again screwed.
10-19-2018, 11:01 PM
#13
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if the guys name is not on the title, he does not own the car. simple as that.
if there is a bad trail or something branded on it, then you are screwed. the previous owner to the seller did his duty in good faith, the current owner did not.. the previous owner does not want to hear from you.
lower the price for the car accordingly for the risk you are taking.
put an exception in the sale contract that given that the car title is not clear and marketable, then you can return it for a full refund.
if you call the dmv and ask any questions, they may flag the vin and you are again screwed.
if there is a bad trail or something branded on it, then you are screwed. the previous owner to the seller did his duty in good faith, the current owner did not.. the previous owner does not want to hear from you.
lower the price for the car accordingly for the risk you are taking.
put an exception in the sale contract that given that the car title is not clear and marketable, then you can return it for a full refund.
if you call the dmv and ask any questions, they may flag the vin and you are again screwed.
Except for getting a lower price and or clause in a contract for an illegal transaction will get laughed at in court,
Wasted time and money.
Like on Cops when the junkie bitched to the LEO a dealer cheated them on a crack deal.
In florida its illegal to buy or sell an open title with license dealer exceptions.
I like your line about the previous owner did right and signed the title and doesnt want to hear from the next buyer , ill add, especially since the next buyer is paying more for it than they got for it from the flipper.
Last edited by The13Bats; 10-19-2018 at 11:06 PM.
10-19-2018, 11:40 PM
#14
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I practiced criminal law for 38 years. Almost all was as a defense attorney but my last gig was as a prosecutor. I ALWAYS filled in the title when I traded a car. Some dealers didn't like it but I said no way am I giving you an open title. There could be insurance issues or something wrong with the title. As others have said check thoroughly with your DMV.
Never participate in someone else’s tax scam, for any reason.
10-20-2018, 12:18 AM
#15
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I worked financial crimes for years including fraud. People skip titles to dodge sales tax, which is a crime. Any time I’ve landed on a car I wanted and it turned out the title was open, I’ve told the seller to pay his outstanding tax, penalty and interest and when the title is in his name to call me.
Never participate in someone else’s tax scam, for any reason.
I had it happen on a few kit cars one guy said no the other cussed and threatened me, others i never heard from, missed a car i wanted badly.
10-20-2018, 09:46 AM
#16
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10-20-2018, 10:00 AM
#17
Race Director
2 ways. One I mentioned earlier. The other, go to the address of owner on the title. See if he will even talk to you. Ask if the guy who has title now if that is the guy he sold it to. There could be several people in between. 3rd option. Tell current owner to title it and you will talk when his name is on the title.
10-20-2018, 01:38 PM
#19
Safety Car
many states do not even do titles for cars or cars this old. then you get an easier transaction. but transacting from a title state to a title state then you gotta play more by the rules.
transacting to or from a title state to or from a non title state is a lot of times a bureaucratic mess. same for emission controls..
all sorts of threads on this forum regarding cars for sale with no titles & bill of sale only, transactions across borders, projects, wrecks, emissions testing from one state to another, etc..
transacting to or from a title state to or from a non title state is a lot of times a bureaucratic mess. same for emission controls..
all sorts of threads on this forum regarding cars for sale with no titles & bill of sale only, transactions across borders, projects, wrecks, emissions testing from one state to another, etc..
10-20-2018, 02:46 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
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Personally, I will not buy a car with an open title nor will I sell a car with an open title. In Indiana, the sellers legal obligation to fill out the transfer of title completely is spelled out very clearly. The employees at our BMV branches inspect the titles VERY carefully to ensure it was filled out in whole BY THE SELLER. If the BMV suspects discrepancies, and they'll send you out the door with a laundry list of things they now require (including getting a signed affidavit from the owner of record on the title) without conducting a transfer of title. I have seen this happen.
Now blue67ragtop , if you feel buying an open title car is something you are comfortable with, you think your BMV or DMV won't pay close attention to the title when your sitting there, and you feel like rolling the dice, then go for it.
Now blue67ragtop , if you feel buying an open title car is something you are comfortable with, you think your BMV or DMV won't pay close attention to the title when your sitting there, and you feel like rolling the dice, then go for it.