COPO Z06? Just a Thought
10-19-2018, 09:31 PM
#1
COPO Z06? Just a Thought
Does anyone know the clearance between the intake and hood on a C6 Z06?
I ask because I was impressed by the COPO 427 installed in a handful of late model Camaros, and began to wonder if there was any possibility of using that engine configuration in a C6 Z06. For that particular engine setup, the tunnel ram is a major contributor to it's power output, and really can't be swapped out for a different intake. I'm trying to determine how much more clearance I would need, to fit that engine under an obviously modified hood, and what impact the extra dimensions would have on the car's lines. Yes, this is a theoretical exercise....
Thanks!
I ask because I was impressed by the COPO 427 installed in a handful of late model Camaros, and began to wonder if there was any possibility of using that engine configuration in a C6 Z06. For that particular engine setup, the tunnel ram is a major contributor to it's power output, and really can't be swapped out for a different intake. I'm trying to determine how much more clearance I would need, to fit that engine under an obviously modified hood, and what impact the extra dimensions would have on the car's lines. Yes, this is a theoretical exercise....
Thanks!
10-19-2018, 10:37 PM
#2
Team Owner
Scroll down to pictures #3 & 4 in this post. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...&postcount=394
Not for the faint of heart.
Not for the faint of heart.
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FastAgain (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 06:18 PM
#3
Scroll down to pictures #3 & 4 in this post. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1598139666&postcount=394
Not for the faint of heart.
Not for the faint of heart.
I suspect that this engine was configured similarly to the COPO 427, at least with respect to valve timing, and induction. That massive plenum is a big part of the extra torque generated by the motor, and the shortened runners have both much higher flow characteristics than the stock units, and resonate at a higher frequency (rpm). If my quick acoustic calculations are correct, this presents a maximum pressure pulse at the intake valve, as late as 50 degrees ABDC @ 6,300 RPM - that column of air moving down the intake runner has a lot of velocity, and significant mass, giving it a substantial amount of momentum. It's that very momentum that allows the intake to keep filling the cylinder with fuel/air mixture, so late after the piston is headed back up into the bore, after BDC. The end result is a possible VE of around 120% - or more - yielding those impressive torque numbers. BSFC suffers a bit, especially below 3,000, probably because overlap is a bit excessive, IMHO. However, on the pragmatic side, that radical valve timing helps the motor keep a lower dynamic compression ratio (I think it's 13:1, static, on the COPO version, and about 10:1 dynamic), again, especially at lower rpms, reducing stresses for street use. I was buoyed by his power numbers, as my own theoretical values came in at 665-675, sans N2O. This is great news; the configuration may just fit under a custom hood that's maybe an inch taller than that on a ZR-1!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING!!!!
Last edited by FastAgain; 10-20-2018 at 07:16 PM.
10-21-2018, 03:52 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
AWESOME CAR!
I suspect that this engine was configured similarly to the COPO 427, at least with respect to valve timing, and induction. That massive plenum is a big part of the extra torque generated by the motor, and the shortened runners have both much higher flow characteristics than the stock units, and resonate at a higher frequency (rpm). If my quick acoustic calculations are correct, this presents a maximum pressure pulse at the intake valve, as late as 50 degrees ABDC @ 6,300 RPM - that column of air moving down the intake runner has a lot of velocity, and significant mass, giving it a substantial amount of momentum. It's that very momentum that allows the intake to keep filling the cylinder with fuel/air mixture, so late after the piston is headed back up into the bore, after BDC. The end result is a possible VE of around 120% - or more - yielding those impressive torque numbers. BSFC suffers a bit, especially below 3,000, probably because overlap is a bit excessive, IMHO. However, on the pragmatic side, that radical valve timing helps the motor keep a lower dynamic compression ratio (I think it's 13:1, static, on the COPO version, and about 10:1 dynamic), again, especially at lower rpms, reducing stresses for street use. I was buoyed by his power numbers, as my own theoretical values came in at 665-675, sans N2O. This is great news; the configuration may just fit under a custom hood that's maybe an inch taller than that on a ZR-1!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING!!!!
I suspect that this engine was configured similarly to the COPO 427, at least with respect to valve timing, and induction. That massive plenum is a big part of the extra torque generated by the motor, and the shortened runners have both much higher flow characteristics than the stock units, and resonate at a higher frequency (rpm). If my quick acoustic calculations are correct, this presents a maximum pressure pulse at the intake valve, as late as 50 degrees ABDC @ 6,300 RPM - that column of air moving down the intake runner has a lot of velocity, and significant mass, giving it a substantial amount of momentum. It's that very momentum that allows the intake to keep filling the cylinder with fuel/air mixture, so late after the piston is headed back up into the bore, after BDC. The end result is a possible VE of around 120% - or more - yielding those impressive torque numbers. BSFC suffers a bit, especially below 3,000, probably because overlap is a bit excessive, IMHO. However, on the pragmatic side, that radical valve timing helps the motor keep a lower dynamic compression ratio (I think it's 13:1, static, on the COPO version, and about 10:1 dynamic), again, especially at lower rpms, reducing stresses for street use. I was buoyed by his power numbers, as my own theoretical values came in at 665-675, sans N2O. This is great news; the configuration may just fit under a custom hood that's maybe an inch taller than that on a ZR-1!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING!!!!
The linked thread is mine. I am running, roughly, 11.9 SCR and a 243/258 114+3 camshaft. Peak HP is 7200 rpm.
10-21-2018, 09:12 PM
#6
I wouldn't bet on that. While the rear of the manifold is not that much higher than the stock hood line, it's the front portion that is a pain to fit. I'd venture to guess that with some Hinson lower than stock mounts and POSSIBLY a VFN 4.5 cowl, it MIGHT fit without cutting the hood. You will still need to cut the cowl to make the manifold fit.
The linked thread is mine. I am running, roughly, 11.9 SCR and a 243/258 114+3 camshaft. Peak HP is 7200 rpm.
The linked thread is mine. I am running, roughly, 11.9 SCR and a 243/258 114+3 camshaft. Peak HP is 7200 rpm.
Allow me to congratulate you on an incredible piece of engineering. The thought, effort, and inspiration that went into your machine are worthy of great respect; the hardware choices, software, tuning, etc, are all critical to the end result - one weak link and it all would have come tumbling down, but not only did it not, but you're putting down some incredible numbers as well! I will certainly take your advice on the hood/cowl and motor mount setup, should I endeavor to take my ride up to that level.
I would just like to ask one other question; was I close on the peak torque and VE (120%) @ 6,300? I ask because, while not being very experienced on the building of these incredible motors, I am a physics professor, and I like to compare my theoretical constructs with those who have actually accomplished these feats, not just written about them!
Again, fantastic ride!
10-21-2018, 09:22 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
have you considered using cradle spacers to essentially give the front end a body lift?
that's what a couple guys've done to run e-force & heartbeat blowers under stock C5 hoods, and i was gonna use them to fit a 1/2" plenum spacer on my TVS.
that's what a couple guys've done to run e-force & heartbeat blowers under stock C5 hoods, and i was gonna use them to fit a 1/2" plenum spacer on my TVS.
10-22-2018, 08:17 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Allow me to congratulate you on an incredible piece of engineering. The thought, effort, and inspiration that went into your machine are worthy of great respect; the hardware choices, software, tuning, etc, are all critical to the end result - one weak link and it all would have come tumbling down, but not only did it not, but you're putting down some incredible numbers as well! I will certainly take your advice on the hood/cowl and motor mount setup, should I endeavor to take my ride up to that level.
I would just like to ask one other question; was I close on the peak torque and VE (120%) @ 6,300? I ask because, while not being very experienced on the building of these incredible motors, I am a physics professor, and I like to compare my theoretical constructs with those who have actually accomplished these feats, not just written about them!
Again, fantastic ride!
I would just like to ask one other question; was I close on the peak torque and VE (120%) @ 6,300? I ask because, while not being very experienced on the building of these incredible motors, I am a physics professor, and I like to compare my theoretical constructs with those who have actually accomplished these feats, not just written about them!
Again, fantastic ride!
Peak torque is roughly 5250rpms.
10-22-2018, 09:42 AM
#10
10-23-2018, 01:42 PM
#11
Team Owner
This guy a couple years back did a 454 w/Holley Hi-Ram and had RK sport build a custom hood. You can see how involved that is to get a Hi-Ram to fit under the hood. As Jay mentioned above, its not the back of the intake that problematic, its the front as it doesn't follow the body/hood lines.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1593115001
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1593115001