How much timing for E85 on a turbo
10-23-2018, 04:14 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
10-23-2018, 08:12 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
There are way to many variables to judge your timing against anyone elses. Tune your car using the sensor data available and then pull the plugs to fine tune based on what the plugs tell you.
10-23-2018, 08:15 AM
#7
Advanced
Thread Starter
not running knock sensor.. just want a rough idea of what people are running...
10-25-2018, 07:37 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Spark plugs can be used
https://sites.google.com/site/sloppy...ls/spark-plugs
Otherwise take it to a dyno and usually I start around 12-15* and add a couple to see if it makes a huge difference. You want to add timing and see more than just a couple percent of torque.
don't look at horsepower curve, only torque. Torque tells you nearly what the cylinder pressure is doing. You want to see a smooth torque curve, always set smoothing = 0.
Any sign of jagged torque means something is wrong.
for example:
09* 460 ft*lbs smooth slopey torque curve
12* 510 ft*lbs smooth torque curve
15* 525 ft*lbs smooth torque curve
18* 528 ft*lbs slightly spikey torque curve
21* 532 ft*lbs jagged torque curve, spikes cause the number to look higher than it is
Notice more timing always seems to give more power. The extra power comes from dangerous spikes in cylinder pressure which creates a jagged curve. It is an erroneous assumption that the timing value which gives the most torque is the best to use. The best timing from the figure above is around 11-13* for example. I would use 11 to 11.5 for a daily driver if it never gets much hotter outside than it was on the dyno day, and 12-13* for a drag car, and make sure to use IAT and CTS data to the advantage such that more heat = less timing. You want the nice smooth curve and plenty of head room (leave some timing out of it, give up the 10 to 15 ft*lbs for the sake of reliability unless racing for $$). As the car gets 'hot' and it is 'pushed harder and harder' it will require less and less timing, but you won't see that on a dyno because the dyno conditions do not reveal actual racing/road conditions. All it does it give us an idea of what the engine wants. Each gear and road condition will further alter the desired timing so this is why we always leave 'head room' as above.
https://sites.google.com/site/sloppy...ls/spark-plugs
Otherwise take it to a dyno and usually I start around 12-15* and add a couple to see if it makes a huge difference. You want to add timing and see more than just a couple percent of torque.
don't look at horsepower curve, only torque. Torque tells you nearly what the cylinder pressure is doing. You want to see a smooth torque curve, always set smoothing = 0.
Any sign of jagged torque means something is wrong.
for example:
09* 460 ft*lbs smooth slopey torque curve
12* 510 ft*lbs smooth torque curve
15* 525 ft*lbs smooth torque curve
18* 528 ft*lbs slightly spikey torque curve
21* 532 ft*lbs jagged torque curve, spikes cause the number to look higher than it is
Notice more timing always seems to give more power. The extra power comes from dangerous spikes in cylinder pressure which creates a jagged curve. It is an erroneous assumption that the timing value which gives the most torque is the best to use. The best timing from the figure above is around 11-13* for example. I would use 11 to 11.5 for a daily driver if it never gets much hotter outside than it was on the dyno day, and 12-13* for a drag car, and make sure to use IAT and CTS data to the advantage such that more heat = less timing. You want the nice smooth curve and plenty of head room (leave some timing out of it, give up the 10 to 15 ft*lbs for the sake of reliability unless racing for $$). As the car gets 'hot' and it is 'pushed harder and harder' it will require less and less timing, but you won't see that on a dyno because the dyno conditions do not reveal actual racing/road conditions. All it does it give us an idea of what the engine wants. Each gear and road condition will further alter the desired timing so this is why we always leave 'head room' as above.