Rumors of high price for C8 based on what the European makers charge
11-20-2018, 12:05 PM
#1
Rumors of high price for C8 based on what the European makers charge
The reason that the so-called European Super Cars are high priced is because, they do not produce as many cars as Corvette does so they have to justify the low production by selling at a high price. Just because a car is a mid-engine does not justify high cost nor does it offer instant performance. Performance is a result of many factors to contribute to the overall attraction for the performance car buyer. Corvette has long held the proven title of the best sports that money can buy. If GM decides they want to take on the so-called supercars from Europe and pretend they are like them by hiking their price to an unreasonable level. Then they should get out their book of fairy tales and re-read the story of the boy who cut open the goose to get all of the golden eggs. It would be a tragic marketing mistake to price the C8 too high and abandon the people that brought them to the dance. Look at the results in IMSA racing. Do you really believe that the mid-engine is going to put everyone behind you just because you are sitting in front of the engine and not behind it? If you believe that you don't understand endurance racing. Racing and performance are multifaceted and cannot be defined as one object or chassis it is a conglomeration of technology, engineering supporting crew and the drivers
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JerriVette (11-21-2018)
11-21-2018, 11:53 AM
#2
Race Director
I have said this before, but in my opinion, for what it’s worth, the only reason the exotics are so expensive is due to their low production numbers.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
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ArmchairArchitect (11-21-2018),
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11-21-2018, 11:59 AM
#3
I have said this before, but in my opinion, for what it’s worth, the only reason the exotics are so expensive is due to their low production numbers.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
that's partly true about the production volumes, but they also use super expensive materials and bleeding edge tech whenever they can. GM simply does not do that.
If GM made the Corvette a carbon monocoque chassis, the price is going to skyrocket from manufacturing and material cost alone, regardless of volume. Also, automakers like Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, etc use ultra high-end premium leathers in their cars would never see production in a GM vehicle because it's too expensive.
11-21-2018, 12:13 PM
#5
Race Director
Trolls torturing “bang for the buck “ corvette diehearts is the only reason we kept hearing about 169 grand c8.....
there is mo reason to raise the cost unless gm thinks its a smart move...
personally i see five grand more to start and range up to170 for the win.
there is mo reason to raise the cost unless gm thinks its a smart move...
personally i see five grand more to start and range up to170 for the win.
11-21-2018, 12:14 PM
#6
Race Director
that's partly true about the production volumes, but they also use super expensive materials and bleeding edge tech whenever they can. GM simply does not do that.
If GM made the Corvette a carbon monocoque chassis, the price is going to skyrocket from manufacturing and material cost alone, regardless of volume. Also, automakers like Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, etc use ultra high-end premium leathers in their cars would never see production in a GM vehicle because it's too expensive.
If GM made the Corvette a carbon monocoque chassis, the price is going to skyrocket from manufacturing and material cost alone, regardless of volume. Also, automakers like Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, etc use ultra high-end premium leathers in their cars would never see production in a GM vehicle because it's too expensive.
One other aspect of that low production numbers/high cost is in reliability and serviceability. They don’t have the room in price to build in reliability or easy service. They just let their dealers handle it, at yet another unreal cost to the owner.
Last edited by Tom73; 11-21-2018 at 12:15 PM.
11-21-2018, 12:19 PM
#7
I have said this before, but in my opinion, for what it’s worth, the only reason the exotics are so expensive is due to their low production numbers.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
very rich people wanting others to know they are very rich.
11-21-2018, 01:26 PM
#8
Banned Scam/Spammer
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Corvette is VERY cutting edge when it comes to new technologies.
Not to mention GM has a 300,000 mile testing process for each new generation of the Corvette before it's released. That's why it's more reliable than other sports/super cars. So even with new technologies, the kinks are worked out. Unlike many other sports/super car manufacturers that don't extensively test new technologies and just release them on cars, causing owners many thousands in repair bills due to design flaws.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 11-21-2018 at 01:39 PM.
11-21-2018, 01:31 PM
#9
Advanced
that's partly true about the production volumes, but they also use super expensive materials and bleeding edge tech whenever they can. GM simply does not do that.
If GM made the Corvette a carbon monocoque chassis, the price is going to skyrocket from manufacturing and material cost alone, regardless of volume. Also, automakers like Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, etc use ultra high-end premium leathers in their cars would never see production in a GM vehicle because it's too expensive.
If GM made the Corvette a carbon monocoque chassis, the price is going to skyrocket from manufacturing and material cost alone, regardless of volume. Also, automakers like Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, etc use ultra high-end premium leathers in their cars would never see production in a GM vehicle because it's too expensive.
Also what are GM's costs on everything that monocoque would replace?
11-21-2018, 01:40 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Safe bet is it's going to cost a lot more than we may expect and dealer gauging is a easy given and expected. my .02
Last edited by ojm; 11-21-2018 at 01:41 PM.
11-21-2018, 03:34 PM
#11
Wrong. GM invented magnetic ride shocks (first used on the Corvette), now used on many other exotics/supercars (licensed by GM to Ferrari and others). Also first manufacturer to mass produce carbon fiber on a car (carbon fiber hood on Le Mans commemorative C5 Z06), titanium exhaust on the C5 Z06, Heads Up Display (C5), hydroformed chassis (C5), balsa wood (strong, light) for floorboards, first car to use laser welding and self-piercing rivets in a mass-production environment (C6 Z06) etc. etc.
Corvette is VERY cutting edge when it comes to new technologies.
Not to mention GM has a 300,000 mile testing process for each new generation of the Corvette before it's released. That's why it's more reliable than other sports/super cars. So even with new technologies, the kinks are worked out. Unlike many other sports/super car manufacturers that don't extensively test new technologies and just release them on cars, causing owners many thousands in repair bills due to design flaws.
Corvette is VERY cutting edge when it comes to new technologies.
Not to mention GM has a 300,000 mile testing process for each new generation of the Corvette before it's released. That's why it's more reliable than other sports/super cars. So even with new technologies, the kinks are worked out. Unlike many other sports/super car manufacturers that don't extensively test new technologies and just release them on cars, causing owners many thousands in repair bills due to design flaws.
I'm not saying GM and Corvette are not innovative. The Corvette is proof that it is innovative, just as you listed examples above, also by it's performance results vs cost. Nobody does it better in that area and innovation certainly has been the driving factor.
My point is they steer away from the most expensive materials and processes that high end automakers do not. They will do whatever it is that is the best available while falling inline a stric budget and cost to consumer. They compromise on quality in some areas to keep costs down, necessarily. The interior material choices are a prime example. The C7 was actually pretty nice in the interior in my opinion. Very nice. The C6 was garbage comparatively.
Exotic car manufacturers don't compromise to nearly the same degree. Offering 30 different leather colors, 20 different stitching options, and 15 different carpet colors for a total of over 100,000 different interior color combinations available. We will never see balmoral leather in a Chevy product.
Ferrari could immediately charge $20,000 more for each car and model they produce and their volumes wouldn't change. That same move by Chevy would sink the Corvette and go the way of the Viper.
Last edited by C7pimp; 11-21-2018 at 04:02 PM.
11-21-2018, 03:53 PM
#12
I don't know. However, I do know they have a proprietary "forged composite" process that has made production faster and more inexpensive, albeit less aesthetically pleasing because you don't have that fabric weave look.
If I was to throw out a random guess, I'd say for a monocoque tub chassis, it would cost about $15,000 to $20,000 at mfg cost.
11-21-2018, 04:14 PM
#14
Race Director
11-21-2018, 06:18 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Look at ti t like this::
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
11-21-2018, 08:20 PM
#16
Look at ti t like this::
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
who can swing the payment on a $50k car.
Tightwads will have to wait to buy a used car.
In Canada, Porsche is limited availability.......You are lucky to get floor mats thrown in while paying sticker plus inflated
doc fees.
Corvettes are limited availability for the first few years of each generation, and selling price is typically list sticker price.
It's only in the American market where cars are overproduced, and massive discounts are needed to sell them.
11-21-2018, 08:26 PM
#17
Those who want one and can afford it will pay .......The walmart shoppers will have to wait a few years and go with a used car.
The gross overproduction is what causes the 20% discounts needed to sell the cars.
11-21-2018, 08:36 PM
#18
Why does this need to be a new thread vs. a reply to the countess other price threads??? How many price threads do we need????
11-21-2018, 09:16 PM
#19
Racer
Look at ti t like this::
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
If you compare the price of the top of the line Cadillac ($80K optioned out) with the top of the line Mercedes S-class ($240K) you will get the same ratio of what a european mid engined car will cost compared to an american mid engined manufactured car (Ford GT not included).
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ojm (11-21-2018)
11-21-2018, 09:31 PM
#20
Drifting
Why does everyone remove the Fort GT from the argument? What if GM is aiming for something at least close to that standard with the new mid-engine? Maybe as a new “top” corvette model (maybe Corvette ZORA)? And continuing the front engine with current models and costs. I’m not arguing, I truly want to know.
Last edited by Oneslackr; 11-21-2018 at 09:35 PM.
