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A while back I started talking to Tony about putting together a heads cam build. Like alot of guys I wanted to make great power without sacrificing the overall driving experience with a huge cam. To make a long story short I ended up with the following setup.
Mamo MMS 260 TFS Heads milled for 11.4:1 compression
Lightened intake valves
Johnson 2126 short travel lifters
Yella Terra 1.85 Ratio Rockers
Manton custom pushrods
227/236 114 +3 .614/.614 cam
ATI 10% balancer
High volume oil pump recommended by tony (not sure of the model)
Double roller timing chain kit
Rick crawford modified intake manifold
1.875" stainless works headers and catted x out to bnb bullets exhaust
The car made 528 whp and 488 wtq on Pat G's dyno yesterday after a touch up tune. I recently moved from Maryland to Texas, so I decided to retune the car down here. The original work and tune were done by Curtis Burkindine out of Aberdeen MD. Very good guy and did great work.
The car has been a real pleasure to own and drive. Maintenance related to the car has been minimal over the last 15,000 miles, with 0 issues on the setup. The car makes really great power down low (nearly 400tq at 1800rpm's and drives like a dream. I can lug around at 1200-1300 rpm's without much hassle. Power is great and comes on progressively and really starts to heat up past 2500 rpm. It screams all the way to the 7100 rpm red line, and holds power well up top, although there does appear to be a curious flat line at the tip top, which is probably a restriction somewhere in the chain.
All in all I'm very happy with the path I chose. The car is a reliable, street friendly, beast. Still getting 30 mpg in 6th gear. I'd like to thank Tony, Curtis, and Pat for all the help along the way. Tony did a really good job of applying just the right amount of pressure to help me avoid stupid mistakes and/or an incomplete setup, while still staying true to my ultimate goals for the build.
Next up are R888's and a lightweight clutch and flywheel whenever the stocker gives up the ghost.
Great results & feedback.
A Mid-Length Runner Fast would take care of that flat line LOL.
And add 20+ from 5800-6800 RPM but would lose some of your
2000-4000 low end obviously.
If you get the Mid Length Fast, I have a set of standard length runners
I would be happy to let you compare at no expense.
Enjoy
Great results & feedback.
A Mid-Length Runner Fast would take care of that flat line LOL.
And add 20+ from 5800-6800 RPM but would lose some of your
2000-4000 low end obviously.
If you get the Mid Length Fast, I have a set of standard length runners
I would be happy to let you compare at no expense.
Enjoy
At what point do you break even and cross over into gains in the RPM band? And how much loss is there down low?
I have a mild cam , 217-225 and usual pairing mods , headers, nick Williams 102mm tb, fast lsxr , vararam , cat delete and I was only getting about 25mpg in the highway, do you think it could be my tune or just the way it is ?
I have a mild cam , 217-225 and usual pairing mods , headers, nick Williams 102mm tb, fast lsxr , vararam , cat delete and I was only getting about 25mpg in the highway, do you think it could be my tune or just the way it is ?
Thanks
Cruising may not be the right word. With cruise control it would be about 27-28. If I'm controlling the throttle and purposefully driving with MPG in mind, it will do 30 on a flat interstate road going around 65-70. Anything over 70 and aero interferes with mpg.
At what point do you break even and cross over into gains in the RPM band? And how much loss is there down low?
After looking over your prior threads, and my posts in them and studying your graph I have the following observations.
That You are making 528 RWHP @ 5800 RPM is Awesome!
That you are making 400lb' @ 1800 RPM means that very likely 2nd gear above 1/2 throttle & 2500 RPM you are roasting base C6 Tires
and 3rd gear full throttle above 3000 Rpm is still roasting your tires.
You have killer heads that are being seriously restricted by 5500 RPM with your current intake.
I would bet my standard length runners that you would gain 20-25 RWHP between 6500-6800 RPM,
and still carry to 7000+ RPM,
Crossover would be around ~5000 RPM, and this is more of a speculative guess but
lose ~20 lb' between 1500-4000 RPM which might necessitate driving at 1600-1800 RPM Vs the 1300-1500
you use now.
While the LOD Intake would make even more it requires significant modifications to fit a C6 (see LazerLemontas' threads here
and on LS1tech. The Holley Sniper would also out peak the Fast Mid-Length but the heat-soak for my application
was a deal killer for me.
If you decide to get the FAST get it with the Mid-Length Runners and if you go to Pat G again for the Dyno Tune
I will send you the Standards at my expense to compare, (should take less than 45 minutes to change out)
These will slightly out do the intake you have now and would not be worth the cost by themselves but the ability
to change for the track (for the Mid) would certainly be beneficial. My runners have never been touched they
came with my Intake before you could by the Mids alone with the Intake. If you decided you wanted
to keep them, and you made over 548 RWHP between 6500-6800 RPM I would ask $250.00 (I believe they sell
for $300.00). If you made 547 RWHP or less, again with Pat G tune & same dyno I would give you the runners.
It would be great to see the difference with Great Heads and a Schmedium sized cam for a daily driver.
I recently acquired a 2007 C6 for a daily driver and will maximize drive ability and performance with the LS2
while staying CA compliant unlike the C5 LOL
I will never have use for the standard length runners.
Regarding a light weight clutch, I have the MMS RPS BC2 (enough acronyms for you LOL!),
It is 32 lbs total with flywheel, Installed in my C5 for 500+ miles with my SBE + Bolt ons LS1 to break in before installing the 396",
Drives Phenomenal, 10-20% more pedal pressure than stock max, and only needs a touch more gas to
take off from a stop. That was with 370 lb @ 4800 RPM, not 400 @ 1800.
After looking over your prior threads, and my posts in them and studying your graph I have the following observations.
That You are making 528 RWHP @ 5800 RPM is Awesome!
That you are making 400lb' @ 1800 RPM means that very likely 2nd gear above 1/2 throttle & 2500 RPM you are roasting base C6 Tires
and 3rd gear full throttle above 3000 Rpm is still roasting your tires.
You have killer heads that are being seriously restricted by 5500 RPM with your current intake.
I would bet my standard length runners that you would gain 20-25 RWHP between 6500-6800 RPM,
and still carry to 7000+ RPM,
Crossover would be around ~5000 RPM, and this is more of a speculative guess but
lose ~20 lb' between 1500-4000 RPM which might necessitate driving at 1600-1800 RPM Vs the 1300-1500
you use now.
While the LOD Intake would make even more it requires significant modifications to fit a C6 (see LazerLemontas' threads here
and on LS1tech. The Holley Sniper would also out peak the Fast Mid-Length but the heat-soak for my application
was a deal killer for me.
If you decide to get the FAST get it with the Mid-Length Runners and if you go to Pat G again for the Dyno Tune
I will send you the Standards at my expense to compare, (should take less than 45 minutes to change out)
These will slightly out do the intake you have now and would not be worth the cost by themselves but the ability
to change for the track (for the Mid) would certainly be beneficial. My runners have never been touched they
came with my Intake before you could by the Mids alone with the Intake. If you decided you wanted
to keep them, and you made over 548 RWHP between 6500-6800 RPM I would ask $250.00 (I believe they sell
for $300.00). If you made 547 RWHP or less, again with Pat G tune & same dyno I would give you the runners.
It would be great to see the difference with Great Heads and a Schmedium sized cam for a daily driver.
I recently acquired a 2007 C6 for a daily driver and will maximize drive ability and performance with the LS2
while staying CA compliant unlike the C5 LOL
I will never have use for the standard length runners.
Regarding a light weight clutch, I have the MMS RPS BC2 (enough acronyms for you LOL!),
It is 32 lbs total with flywheel, Installed in my C5 for 500+ miles with my SBE + Bolt ons LS1 to break in before installing the 396",
Drives Phenomenal, 10-20% more pedal pressure than stock max, and only needs a touch more gas to
take off from a stop. That was with 370 lb @ 4800 RPM, not 400 @ 1800.
You are correct. Roasting at half throttle in second and full throttle in third at this point, especially after a little more timing. I’ve thought about the intake, because it looks like the power is still trying to climb, I just really here the thought of losing some of my midrange.
Looking st r888’s for tires. Still debating whether or not to send the wheels to be widened.
You are correct. Roasting at half throttle in second and full throttle in third at this point, especially after a little more timing. I’ve thought about the intake, because it looks like the power is still trying to climb, I just really here the thought of losing some of my midrange.
Looking st r888’s for tires. Still debating whether or not to send the wheels to be widened.
Absolutely I am correct! Not to be a **** but I did suggest Tony Mamofying your Heads & your cam specs within 1*.
I don't recall seeing a dyno graph where the torque fell that steep/abruptly which is why your hp flatlines so early.
Even with 325 section width tires you can afford to give up some low/midrange and still roast those tires.
I just hate to see that beautiful curve end at 5800 Vs 6800+ RPM (especially with the light valves)
But at the end of the day it is your build and I am glad you are enjoying it.
What cfm are these heads flowing compared to the stock heads? N/A 600 chp with a mild cam.....
My MMS LS3 (TFS Castings)
Flowed 302 CFM @ .400", 350 @ .500", 383 @ .600", 387 @ .650
Intake on a 4.155" Bore. 260 CC Port.
OE LS3 ~330 CFM @ .600" with a much inferior exhaust port
which needs +12-16* added duration VS +8-12* exhaust Duration.
05-14-2019, 03:02 PM
Mamo LS3 Heads Cam Build - 15,000 mile review
