theseal

Somebody tell us how this works.

A car does not need more than 3 or 4 modules. Theyre saying this has 100 and expects that;

‘Global B would "move much of a vehicle's computer power to the ... cloud," and in doing so enable over-the-air updates”

theyre talking about 4.5 terrabytes per hour data transfer, etc.

explain how this makes nay sense, and how this will ever be your car. I see huge liability issues, huge privacy issues. Huge ownership issues. Huge reliability issues. Huge tuning issues.

What happens if you pull all the receiver/antanneas and block all connectivity?

C8Jake

who gives a flyin f**k

ZenicaPA

Me for second.

I don't want my car beholden to the manufacturer or the stability of a cloud connection.

No thanks.

OP, where did you read that GM was planning to implement this on the C8?

Jeff V.

C7 has ~28 depending on model and options. The current trucks and SUVs have even more.

I hear there's some killer deals on C5s if you want something with less technology.

thill444

This is what Tesla and others are doing. Cars are software driven. If you block transmissions or uninstall/hack software or modules I suspect GM can deny some warranty items.

Glenmcp

Many cars today have a bunch of monitoring of what your car did and where it did it. Removing all of it is most likely impossible.

50th year

Times have changed. People no longer want to drive cars they want the car to drive them

BIG Dave

You left out the sky is falling.

gthal

Big brother is watching ... spooky

In all seriousness, who cares. If this is a deal breaker, you won't be able to buy ANY new car in the next few years. Yes, tuning the car will be an issue... or at least more difficult. But it isn't like this technology isn't being used already or will simply cause your car to die in the middle of the street.

gthal

I thought it was implied...

mschuyler

It makes a great deal of sense. I hope it is in my car as soon as possible. Right now, just as a real-world example, if you want an MSRC update, you pay $350 and need to spend half a day at the dealer. With over the air it's done before you know it. I don't see that affecting ownership. If anything, it enhances reliability, and in terms of tuning? Meh! Only a few people mess with the tuning and destroy their warranty. In terms of liability. For what? Not any more than today. And as far as privacy, where have you been? If you screw up, your car will tattle on you and that's been true for decades.

These are not "huge" issues. You know what are? Your cell phone, your credit cards, your online ordering. They track where you are at all times and what your spending habits are. If you are really as concerned as you say you are you would ditch even being online, toss your credit cards, get rid of your cell phone, use only cash, and buy an old VW bug for transportation. If you are going to participate in this culture in any meaningful way other than a recluse, you must sacrifice a lot of the things you are concerned about or not play the game at all. That's your only option. Of course do what you have to do: Fight for privacy laws, boycott what you need to--all that. But the C8 (and all cars) will increasingly have all this stuff you don't like, and there's no good way to opt out. Next time you reincarnate, come back in the 18th century and you'll have a lot more personal freedom.

theseal

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/22/...-platform-ota/

lol. So you’re fine paying for a car that someone else owns and controls?

i agree phones etc are privacy disasters but there are ways around that. They dont haul your *** around at highway speeds.

Gm makes a decision and just changes settings on your car? your power, rev limiter, handling, braking, whatever?

they had to delay production from bugs in this system, and apparently beef up the wiring to handle the load. Wtf can excess modules do except jeopardize your reliabilty and ease of diagnosis and costs of repair.

You want thieves, car companies, law enforcement, wealthy enemies, whoever to be able to hack something like your car so easily? Accidental issues too. This abs motor, steering, shifters, throttle body etc are all electronic. You have no control at this point.

Bottom line modern cars all incorporate these concepts - for the benefit of everyone other than the owner - and to the severe detriment of the owner.

It is an asolute and serious design flaw. My reason for posting is not to bitch - but to learn more about it, how it works, how to minimize these problems, and decide if it is a deal killer for me.

if i buy such a beast, i wont keep it long, or enjoy it as i should, knowing these flaws and risks.

novaks47

This is nothing new, GM has had this for some time now, granted on a lesser scale. It all started with BCM's and Onstar. OTA updates are no big deal, all cars will have this eventually. Heck, my daily driver is a '14 Volt, and it's had minor updates OTA, no issues at all. I view this as an upside, as hopefully, one day major updates will not require hassling with a dealership, and possibly having to pay for labor. For now though, big updates that could potentially fail to upload correctly must be done at a dealer. The other systems will allow GM to see what works well and what does not, and improve.


Existing cars already have an incredible amount of integrated electronics in them. I recall people getting worried over electronic throttle bodies, ie fly by wire. Worst that happened with that was slow/delayed throttle response. Keep in mind, manufactures aren't completely retarded, they know and share your concerns. Imagine the bad publicity and liability they would endure should a system fail and cause a wreck! No one wants to be that manufacturer, lol.

ZenicaPA

This issue divides buyers into two groups, A) those that value and take measures to safe guard their privacy data and B) those that don't.

GM in general knows full well that 90% of buyers fall into the B group. OnStar is an insidious example of this. On one hand they state in the
terms that private data is scrubbed yet when I spoke with a VP at OnStar and a VP at GM Customer Care, they admitted that location data is NOT scrubbed.

So a 3rd grader can figure out that GPS location data from midnight until 7am is likely a home address. From there, a host of information can be had ranging
from amount house sold for, property tax, lot size as well as owners and past owners full names. OnStar sells this data to anyone paying, along with other
data the vehicle collects. Now the 90% simply doesn't care. I do. I had OnStar physically disabled.

This is the reason I didn't buy a Tesla and oh do I want one. You guys are only looking at the positive benefits of over the air updates and if that was all there is
then I'd laud that benefit as well. There is of course the inverse to that benefit and Tesla was the proof. They did exactly what I feared could happen when I
spoke with their sales team. It was a scenario the sales people swore had never happened and they wouldn't foresee it ever happening. Well later, it did.

That an over the air update restricts/removes or disables a feature you like. Possibly a feature that factored heavily in your decision to buy the car. For me, in the
case of Tesla it is the auto pilot. After the two crashes nearly back to back, they sent an update over night to disable it or aspects of it in every Tesla. It remained
that way for a while.

So between my privacy and my obnoxious belief that I own my data and the data about my habits and the potential a manufacturer can disable something about
the car because some idiot in California can't use it properly is enough to make me rethink driving and vehicle ownership. I'm sure my Cayenne and 435 also commuinicate
with the manufacturer but as far as I'm aware, they aren't sending GPS tracking data that is later sold.

If this C8 is in fact transmitting large amounts of data to GM, it will depend on what type of data and what it is used for. If I will want to own this car will depend of whether
or not the vehicles normal and complete operation is dependent upon that transmission in the form of a received signal.

Naturally Vain

Have fun trying to mod it I guess.

Chicago1

You been living under a rock? It will get worse and worse and most cars have this. You can always get you a sweet C4 vette and not worry about it.

Kappa

I'm sure they still sell StarTac phones on eBay to complete the purchase. lol

theseal

Lol i have a c4 that will smoke the hell out of this thing in every performance category and has a really nice interior to boot. I built that car for exactly these reasons. Frankly i think it looks just as good or better too.

And it has 54% rear weight distribution, almost 800 na horsepower, a real dry sump, weighs under 2900 lbs, and has much better brakes, better abs, better engine management, better powerplant, and has 335’s all around while only being 70” wide.

However, that was a hell of a lot of work — and much more money than this car. And im still finishing it and will always tinker with it. It is very easy to work on.

However, ive been toying with the idea of a second toy/track day car with a warranty. This looks like a good option.

Ive seen multiple c7’s injure their drivers on track because their bpcm decided not to allow any hydraulic pressure to the calipers, no matter how hard the driver hit the brake pedal. If i die because i did something stupid, or a mechanical failure i could have seen, thats ok.

If i die because some gm wireless update caused my brakes or steering to malfunction, that is not ******* ok.

So really, my question is practical - what happens if i mechanically disable the ability of this bullshit to send and receive?
How many receivers/senders are there? What are the real details of what this system is doing? What does this mean for tuning, track use, safety, privacy? What are its limits and safeguards?

We could debate philosophy of why tf gm thinks your car should send or receive 4.5tb of data per hour to or from someone else without your permission. We can debate the philosophy of why a car needs any modules other than tcm, ecm, bcm too. I would win that debate because there is no excuse or good reason for either of those things. But it just doesnt matter as gm built it that way anyway.

Bottom, line short of yanking all the wiring and modules out and putting a proper electrical harness and modules in, whats the best way to deal with this design flaw?

Sin City

If you are worried about "Big Brother watching you" throw your cell phone in the garbage. Your car in comparison is nothing.

Naturally Vain

I think its setting up the archtitecture for hybrid than all electric Vettes and the only ones that can work on,update, modify will be authorized dealers. More control by the manufacturer in the long run, hence more profit. This is what Tesla has done.