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8 years is the Federal requirement. Some states like California require 10 years. No idea what replacement cost is today, and frankly don’t care because the price will be different in 8 years (probably less than it would be today because a 1.9 kWh battery in 2031 will probably be considered tiny).
8 years is the Federal requirement. Some states like California require 10 years. No idea what replacement cost is today, and frankly don’t care because the price will be different in 8 years (probably less than it would be today because a 1.9 kWh battery in 2031 will probably be considered tiny).
It’s going to be more of a labor issue. You know, like that $25 part you can’t get to so the dealer can charge you $1,000 in labor to replace. While it does look like the battery will be accessible by mere mortals, you still have to rip out all your interior to get to it. Unless you are able to get to it from the bottom.
8 years is the Federal requirement. Some states like California require 10 years. No idea what replacement cost is today, and frankly don’t care because the price will be different in 8 years (probably less than it would be today because a 1.9 kWh battery in 2031 will probably be considered tiny).
if that is the one and only battery (GM has already stated it’s 12V), I will be comfortable with an 8 to 10 year warranty.
if that is the one and only battery (GM has already stated it’s 12V), I will be comfortable with an 8 to 10 year warranty.
The "regular" battery is still 12 volt (and is also lithium ion) and is not covered by an 8-10 year warranty. It is the 1.9 kWh battery that powers the electric motor that will be covered by the 8-10 year warranty and it is far higher than 12 volts.
It’s going to be more of a labor issue. You know, like that $25 part you can’t get to so the dealer can charge you $1,000 in labor to replace. While it does look like the battery will be accessible by mere mortals, you still have to rip out all your interior to get to it. Unless you are able to get to it from the bottom.
In a walkaround of an E-Ray cutaway, Aaron Link, Chevy Performance Car Manger said service has been considered and straight forward. GM will have a time for the task and what they will reimburse a dealer on Warranty. But dealer is a private business and could charge more.
Top pic from E-Ray cutaway walkaround. Aaron Link said it comes out from the bottom. In fact, there is NO access from the side, this is a cutaway! Lower pic shows the bottom of the center tunnel, a structural member bolted to the chassis.
The "regular" battery is still 12 volt (and is also lithium ion) and is not covered by an 8-10 year warranty. It is the 1.9 kWh battery that powers the electric motor that will be covered by the 8-10 year warranty and it is far higher than 12 volts.
I am glad to hear that there is a separate battery to the 1.9 kWh front propulsion battery.
In a walkaround of an E-Ray cutaway, Aaron Link, Chevy Performance Car Manger said service has been considered and straight forward. GM will have a time for the task and what they will reimburse a dealer on Warranty. But dealer is a private business and could charge more.
Top pic from E-Ray cutaway walkaround. Aaron Link said it comes out from the bottom. In fact, there is NO access from the side, this is a cutaway! Lower pic shows the bottom of the center tunnel, a structural member bolted to the chassis.
That’s awesome. You can replace cells or the whole pack yourself. I’m thinking later on aftermarket higher density cells may provide more time before discharge in the future.
I saw a video if you remove the bottom aluminum plate under the engine you can see into the battery tunnel so I'm guessing you can then just slide the battery pack out.
^^^
Just saw another video with GM person saying the battery pack "is attached" to the bottom structural member or perhaps has it's own integrated member. We'll have to see as more info comes out but sounds easy to access however it's constructed.
How long is the battery pack warrantied for and what would the replacement cost be.
Probably 8/80 or 8/100 on the EV components. That's what is on the Bolt and the Volt.
As for pricing? Its a guess. Out of warranty and going off the pricing of the old eAssist batteries in the Malibu Eco from 2013 albeit which was older tech, its probably in the $2500-3500 price range just for the pack. Possibly closer to $4000 even.
I am glad to hear that there is a separate battery to the 1.9 kWh front propulsion battery.
Yep ~400/800 volts or whatever the 1.9 kWh battery is would fry a starter instantly!
Did no see E-Ray voltage mentioned but: With Ultium, most vehicles will have 400-volt battery packs and up to 200-kW DC fast-charging capability. The truck platform will have 800-volt battery packs and 350-kW DC fast-charging capability. That's almost four times faster than today's batteries
GM has revealed part of their Ultium high-voltage architecture and it's either 400V or 800V on the high voltage supply, but I've not seen a HV (high voltage side) spec for the e-Ray. It does use 80 battery cells, so if you assume they're series-connected, this places the e-Ray battery maximum voltage at about 296 Volts to possibly low-300V range, if each cell is a standard NMC cell at 3.7V. If they're a different electrochemistry (non-NMC), then the battery voltage could be a little lower.
^^^
The Ultium battery is a different chemistry. Typical Litium Ion battery has about equal amounts of Lithium and very expensive Cobalt. The Ultium is said to use ~70% less Cobalt. . Not sure what voltage each cell generates.
^^^
The Ultium battery is a different chemistry. Typical Litium Ion battery has about equal amounts of Lithium and very expensive Cobalt. The Ultium is said to use ~70% less Cobalt. . Not sure what voltage each cell generates.
The Ultium battery packs for the trucks use parallel groups of 96 series-connected cells to reach the 400V maximum. That series connection places the cell voltage at around 4.16V max, and probably under 4V nominal.
^ ^
But do you know what their “different chemistry” with 70% less Cobalt produces?
PS: Answered my own question: Each Ultium pouch cell measures approximately 23 by 4 by 0.4 in (584 by 102 by 10 mm) and weighs 3.0 lb (1.36 kg), capable of storing 0.37 kWh; the nominal voltage is 3.7 Vand its energy capacity is 103 Ah.
So you're right. BUT they have been pretty secretive about the LG South Korean Technoloy, so I also wonder. Assume by now it's out with folks measuring some current vehicles using the Ultium "technology."
SIDEBAR
Found this interesting: Ultium battery materials will be supplied by LG Chem and POSCO Chemical (cathode active materials) and Livent(lithium hydroxide)
Visited the POSCO steel mill in S Korea after giving a talk at their conference. Was given a tour of their very impressive mill, one of the largest in the World and built from Scratch in the early 1970's. The person who started it had a Metallurgy degree from Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh and was told by US steel mill folks NO WAY he could build a viable Intergrated steel mill in South Korea as they have no raw materials. Same time period US Steel said they were going to build the World's largest Integrated Steel Mill on Lake Eire (close to where I was working at the time.)
In fact, our small town had been the largest tonnage shipping port on the Lake. Taconite iron pellets came in to be shipped by rail to Youngstown and Pittsburgh steel mills and coal came in by train and shipped out. Soon after US Steel abandoned the idea and got in to Concrete! See where US Steel, Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel, Kaiser Steel etc are now!
BTW the POSCO Mill was fully automated and very clean. Recently we visited the Nucor steel mill in Darlington, one of their first. They like most in the US, make NO steel from iron ore, all just melted scrapped cars etc. Was like a typical steel mill (when they existed) in the US. Would not wear your Sunday cloths. Toured the whole POSCO mill in suit and tie! Yep POSCO gets metallurgical coal from the US, Iron ore from Australia and they don't even have lime, have to import!
Sad we were at one time the best at many things! Now best at selling hamburgers!
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But do you know what their “different chemistry” with 70% less Cobalt produces??
Yes - they're using 96 of these low cobalt cells in series for 400V.
source - ieee.
Tim Grewe, GM's global director of electrification and battery systems, says that Ultium 1.0 batteries offer 60 percent more energy density than those found in the Bolt. ........... Doing so demanded a proprietary nickel cobalt manganese aluminum chemistry, one that reduces by 70 percent the amount of cobalt normally required, which is important because cobalt is the priciest element used in batteries. THOSE ULTIUM 1.0 BATTERIES are key to the forthcoming Hummer EV, the high-end version of which generates a shocking 1,000 horsepower from a trio of electric motors.
^^^
Thanks. Since my area is materials and Cobalt is used for high temp, jet engine parts, hard facing products etc. I knew the price was going up substantially but was not aware of why or how much was used in Li-ion batteries.
The answer is a bit scary! Think China is a risk BUT not this bad! Typical Lithium-ion battery has about the same amount of very expensive Cobalt as Lithium. A key concern is the source: More than 70 percent of the world's cobalt is produced in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It has long history of conflict, political upheaval and instability, and authoritarian rule have led to a grave, ongoing humanitarian crisis.
^^^
Thanks. Since my area is materials and Cobalt is used for high temp, jet engine parts, hard facing products etc. I knew the price was going up substantially but was not aware of why or how much was used in Li-ion batteries.
The answer is a bit scary! Think China is a risk BUT not this bad! Typical Lithium-ion battery has about the same amount of very expensive Cobalt as Lithium. A key concern is the source: More than 70 percent of the world's cobalt is produced in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It has long history of conflict, political upheaval and instability, and authoritarian rule have led to a grave, ongoing humanitarian crisis.
LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is a potential cobalt-free alternative to NMC (nickel manganese cobalt). It also degrades much less capacity-wise than NMC over many charge cycles, which was why I'd floated it as a potential e-Ray electrochemistry, especially with LG focusing so much recent effort on its development and production. But as of right now, I'm hesitant to try to predict whether the e-Ray uses LFP or NMC, as the NMC-based Ultiums have also benefitted from improvements to their cycle life.
I think in either case, it's safe to say the e-Ray operates at a max voltage significantly less than 400V.
I think in either case, it's safe to say the e-Ray operates at a max voltage significantly less than 400V.
Even so, its still regarded as a high voltage system. Orange sheathing on the cables indicates 60V-1500V DC/30V-1000V AC. The Silverado E Assist from 2016-2018 was an 86V system so yes, the eRay system could definitely fall closer to that number vs. 400V.
