SirReal63

This will be a slow to evolve thread, I am in no hurry and I have a lot to do on this old car. Thanks to @VikingTrad3r for the encouragement to start a build thread, there really should be more of them here.

I have been wanting a C4 since 1983, it didn't happen since there wasn't an 83. When I saw my first 84 I wasn't exactly "in love", more like eh, technological advancement I can do without, that changed with the L98 which I was truly impressed with. I got my first real job in 1976 doing whatever my mechanic boss wanted, usually that meant under a car doing what his fat old body didn't want to do. I had just turned 13 and was actually hired to clean dead alternators and starters and rebuild them, which was my boss's real business. The time I spent there was educational, though my family had been drag racing since the early 60's my Dad wasn't much of a teacher and the mechanic that hired me was a good friend of my Dad's. I learned a lot, in fact I can count on one hand the number of times I have hired someone to work on my vehicles. I am not a mechanic, my career was as far from that line of work as imaginable, but I still enjoy turning wrenches when have time. I have restored many vehicles over the years, never show quality but good driver quality. This brings me to the C4, a car I have wanted for a long time but never bought for some reason. Having just sold my restored 1994 F350 4wd CCLB IDI Turbo 5-speed I needed something to keep my hands busy. (Not really, my wife and I are retired and have a small hobby farm with the 3500 sq ft 2 story Barndo I built with my own hands, I stay plenty busy.) Time to find another project.

I have been searching for a C4 for over a year now, I had decided on a 91 with a 6 speed. Turns out that is a hard find, it seems a lot of people want the L98 with the updated interior and exterior, not just me. I found several but the condition was not good or the price objectionable. I found one here in Texas but the transmission was a huge question mark, I did not want to be dealing with needing a rebuilt ZF right off the bat. The rest of the car was in decent shape but owned by a kid and I avoid buying kid owned vehicles, I was a kid once, I know what I did. The next possible option was an 89 or 90 but it was mostly the same story, too expensive or in too bad of shape. I was trying to talk myself into flying to Vegas for a beautiful 89 six speed car that had a lot of performance goodies on it but driving back 1300 miles with an untested car was asking a lot, and the car owner agreed, he and my wife eventually talked me out of it. I kept looking and one turned up 30 minutes from the farm, a, 89 six speed convertible. I wasn't looking for a convertible but I also wasn't not looking for one. The price was the same as the one in Vegas but the condition a little worse. I did the math, a flight from Austin to Vegas, gas, hotels, tolls and the huge question of if the car would make it made the decision. It was vastly cheaper to get the one I could drive home and put that extra money into the car, both needed interior work and paint work. Turns out the vert was a good buy, mostly. The engine is strong and the tranny shifts right, just a little sloppy. I should not have to pull this engine, a huge plus.

Here is what I started with...

SirReal63

The bad...and there is some bad.

While mostly intact, the interior is original, worn, tired, frayed and in one spot burned.



Peeling back the carpet, I find this...they must have been in a real hurry to get to the smoldering jute.





My guess is a cigarette/ cigar, busted crack pipe or other Oh Crap moment.
I have the ripped out console plastic and will G-Flex it back together. The wires and connectors are a little crispy, they will need to be dealt with.

I have replaced the Atari cluster, the old one was probably original. I have no speedometer, no fuel range/mileage or cruise control. I suspect that the crispy wires are the cause as I believe they come up in that area.

I will have to glass back a spot where it burned through, it is a good thing I keep epoxy and cloth on hand.

SirReal63

The good, and there is some good. One of the 6 previous owners loved and cared for this car, perhaps more than one, but at least one. When I started working on the convertible top, which is original including the rear vinyl window falling out of it, I noticed a huge sub woofer box and 6x9's taking a lot of space. Somewhere in the late 90's a really nice and expensive stereo system was installed. There was a Kenwood KDC-PS7009 head unit, a Rockford Fosgate Punch 360.6 and Boston Acoustics drivers, front and rear. This was excellent equipment at the time and everything worked except the head unit. I removed the huge box, all the wiring started over. The top just barely fit so the box and sub needed to go. I moved the amp to the rear wall, the 6x9's to the cubby holes after removing the Bose pieces that were still there. Looks much better, and neater with actual room to put the top and/or the usual small overnight bag.

The amp was kind of a big deal in the day, it had configurable crossovers that could be adjusted with changing the resisters on the X-Cards. Low tech today but not when it was made.




I did not clean the carpet, it will get replaced with "something" before long.

SirReal63

The car itself is nothing special, no special handling packages but it does have tire pressure monitoring that does not work. It is a late year model build, with a few nice features. I really wanted a better rear axle ratio, but the 3:33's will be just fine.

ghlkal

Congratulations.

This should be a great project.

SirReal63

It will be but there is so much to do and I am just getting started. I turned 60 in Oct. and though I really don't have time to do this, I also don't know how I could pass up doing another vehicle. I got to looking back at all of the vehicles I have done over the years and smiled. It started with a 76 Monte Carlo, wish I still had it, the 97 Firebird I bought for a mobile office that I ended up doing 3 seasons of car shows with and gave to my SIL, the 2001 E38 BMW 740i shorty that I regret letting go, the 94 F350 and my daily driver 2003 Yukon XL Denali that I abandoned the rebuild/restore on in favor of daily transportation.

This car will end up kicking my butt, I know it and will be seeking advice here. This seems to be the best place for experience, I have been browsing here for over a decade because the tech knowledge here is incredible.

ductape

You're in the right place. I wish I would have documented my build, but there were no cell phones when I started, and my computer knowledge is nil. Fast forward 18 years, and I have just started back on it. This is the go to place for all the info you need. After about 20 years of education here, I felt I should join as a paid member. The info is invaluable. Stay on it. You'll love the results!

SirReal63

I got my first computer in 1983, an Osborn that got me through some college, I have had a PC ever since, the first one was a gift, I built every PC I have owned since, starting with a 286-12. This should mean I am computer literate but I am really not, I just once was. When I did the Monte Carlo, the internet was still character based, no pictures and a 1200 baud modem. I did a proper build thread on the Firebird, though all of the pics are long gone as is the message board, the BMW pics from the build and thread are also long gone, though I do still have a few pics of it. The biggest and most complete was the thread on the house build, it really killed me too, had a widowmaker towards the end but managed to survive by sitting in the ER when it hit.

When searching for LS based diagnostics and mods in the past, this forum would always come up, imagine that. When I decided to grab a C4 this was the first forum I came to, I knew it and was familiar with it. I think I chose wisely to put a thread here.

SirReal63

The paint is great from 75' away but closer and you start to see the flaws. At some point it was repainted...mostly. The hood and rear of the car had been repainted but somehow the doors were not. How does that even happen? I do not understand the decision to not paint the doors, but they were not painted. The paint job were it was repainted was not very good work. There are bubbles, cracks, orange peel and a few whiskey scrapes and bumps. These will need to be fixed and I have never done auto paint in my life. I have corrected paint, but never applied it. I may have to attempt it.

Some of the worst areas...



I have a decent compressor, drier, gun and sanders, polishers and buffers. There are some fantastic videos from Paint Society that make this look doable for someone with limited experience.

SirReal63

The convertible top was a bargaining chip I used to my advantage. I got the price significantly lower because the rear "glass" was coming out and it was raining when I picked up the car. I researched how to repair the vinyl window and clean the horrid haze off of it. I ended up going with Weldwood Contact Cement after failing with 3M VHB double sided tape and adhesion promoter. The double sided tape failed because the cloth portion was disintegrating, nothing sticks to powder but the powder does come off and stick to the tape rendering it useless. The contact cement allowed adhesion by soaking in to the cloth fiber that was still intact. This method worked beautifully while it was cool outside but one day in the sun and it began to let loose in some areas.

It was always my intention to replace the top, I just wanted to buy some time as there are so many areas that need attention. I could leave the car in the "shop" though it was full of our farming related items, numerous 3-point implements, cement mixer, table saw, welder and accessories, the 97 Suzuki Carry that needs clutch work etc. etc. It took me a week to clean out and organize the shop enough to get the C4 in there and have room to work on it. Many items went outside until I can erect a shelter for them. I have never done a convertible top before so I researched that.

I am a frugal man at heart, I built our house instead of writing a check, I fix our vehicles when they need it instead of writing a check. We rarely hire anyone to help with the farm chores and infrastructure construction, well, at least until I had my heart attack, now some of that gets "farmed" out to a high school kid. When it came to the top I knew I would be doing it myself, without a clue of how. I hated the thought of putting a vinyl window and top back into this car but learned a glass window version from a newer model could be made to work, they even made a kit for it. Off shopping I went, the kit, no longer available, the actual cloth top much more expensive than the vinyl one and there is very limited C4 specific instructions and tips on doing this job. While browsing FB ScammerPlace for vehicles in the past I knew there was a Corvette specific wrecking yard a couple hours away from me. He actually had a 91 vert on his lot he was parting out. I asked him about the top and it's real condition, but it was about the same as what I had. He did however have a black top off a 95 that was in good physical condition but dirty and faded with the frame still attached. The price was right, more than right. I fired off an email to Mirrock to see if this was as easy as it appeared, they assured me it was a direct bolt on. Now we have a plan, remove the entire frame and top from an 89 and replace it with the entire frame and top from a 95.

The problem...



The solution...as it was before I got it home, really dirty.



I ended up with it for less than asking price which was about a third of the price of just the canvas cloth top. I cleaned this top like a piece of cloth that was dirty, Woolite, OxyClean and a horse brush. I managed to get all of the dirt out of it but it was still faded and stained. I have ordered some Renovo Reviver and Ultraproofer to make it black again. I am keeping my fingers crossed it works. If it does work, then I have the glass window I want, on a frame designed to work with it and mostly my labor as an expense. I went ahead and ordered weatherstrip from Top Flight for the top and Corvette Rubber Latex for the A-pillar. The weatherstrip was bad, on the car and both top.

An interesting thing to me...the top from the 89 appears to be original. The correct screws, placement and length of screws, correct adhesive and the hinges only show one set of witness marks. I don't believe it has ever been replaced. The 95 top by contrast has a mix of hardware, some even correct but most not, 4 different adhesives and the actual fabric is still firm and not worn and looks to have been replaced. I swapped the headliner out of the 89 into the 95 as it was in near perfect condition and the 95 one was tattered.

I do not mind the color change to black, I think it looks better than the Saddle top.

SirReal63

It took me a week to clean off the old glue, weatherstrip adhesive, contact cement and silicone off the 95 weatherstrip channels. It is done as of today and weatherstrip gets delivered next week. I rust converted the screws and painted them, where the screw holes were wallowed out too big for screws I used black pop rivets, though they will never be seen. I used as much of the correct hardware from the 89 as would fit though many of them had to go back with the incorrect screws I took out.

The agenda for when the top is finished is to figure out a speedometer and hope it is the charred wiring in the console and not the discontinued parts like VSS and plastic gears. I know I will be calling for help when that time comes as though I can handle mechanical things, electrical is not as easy for me. I did get a new shop manual and it will be immeasurably helpful once I learn the layout of it. It does not seem very intuitive at first but I will learn to use it.

To add, with the interior I am not sure I am going back in with carpet.

Devereaux

Yeoman’s work. there, @SirReal63 . You’re a brave man to take up the project, but perhaps it won’t be as much trouble as it looks. The wiring issue may be one of your harder areas to redo.

Paint is a whole world unto itself. There are numerous ways to “revive” old paint. The holes, nicks, and scratches are a different issue. You should consider various approaches before committing to a repair process. But random orbital buffers and light polishes, and even clay, can do wonders for old paint. I had an old ‘72 911, my first foray into non-racing car work, and it turned out relatively well. My all-original ‘73 911 ended up looking showroom new after claying the car and a good coat of carnauba wax.

Nice write-up. You look like you have a decent “project” that can be fixed to be nice. You also sound like you can actually do what’s needed. Now you will just have to find the time - always the most difficult “component” to locate.

SirReal63

Yeoman's work indeed! I confess that I have a fondness for old 911's and older 912's. Welcome aboard my misadventure.

This old girl needs to be saved, she runs way too good to be left behind for cosmetic reasons. I have a shelf full of compounds and polishes but the faded doors are beyond hope, too thin where there is still paint and no paint left to polish in other areas. I think I can spot repair the respray areas that are damaged. The really bad area has bondo on it that is bubbling out, that spot will have to be aggressively repaired but not with bondo.

Electrical work doesn't bother me, electronic work does. Re-pinning isn't hard, I have the tools for it but finding the correct connector that isn't old and brittle may be a real challenge. I haven't researched it yet and I take a deep research dive on the things I plan on doing, whenever I can.

irvan

Sounds like you are enjoying the journey, that's what it's all about.

ductape

By the way, before you replace the carpet, install some insulation to kill noise and help fight temperatures outside. I gutted mine and laid some of that foil/foam they put on ductwork. I bought the adhesive backed kind. Forms nicely and stays in place when you lay the carpet. Check all your wiring, connectors and such that will be exposed. Just an idea before you lay carpet.

86C4vert

Subscribed

Great project you have here, reminds me a lot of my car when I first got it. What a great deal you got on that top from the 95 - now you could run a hard top too if you ever come across one!

Sabre34

Congrats and best of luck on your build. Look forward to seeing the progress.

VikingTrad3r

Hi SirReal Glad you started a thread.

A fine car to enjoy while also fixing it up! ive never owned a c4 vert but i will one day.

Look fwd to helping you whenever possible.

In my red 89 i have documented use of “frostking” (2 layers) and then 1x layer of “reflectix” which has worked really well.

Also, on my daughters “frostbite” project there was some charred jute beside a blocked and overheating catalytic converter. we cut the charred section out, replaced with frostking/reflectix.

for repairs to our smc panels, i typically use smc compatable panel bond adhesive. Cheers look forward to progress.

SirReal63

It is all on the list. The list is very long at this point. I am leaning away from carpet, it is too expensive for the crappy quality it is, even the better quality stuff is not a good value and I hate carpet. I can re-do all of my Yukon XL Denali with the best Essex and mass backing for less than the tiny amount of the cheapest carpet in a C4, the Corvette tax is ridiculous when it comes to carpet.

I am a firm believer in sound deadening, mass loading and thermal barriers. I used some Frost King on the doors of my XL Denali as well as over the rear wheel arches with some mass loading strips, it is great taking an already quiet vehicle and removing the last of the road noise from it. I will line the transmission tunnel with a heat barrier, Frost King and at least a half an inch of an additional medium density foam barrier. I am hoping I can squeeze all of it in there but I should be able to with the jute removed.

SirReal63

I think it was a good deal, I gave $200 for it and have spent a couple of weeks making it better, it took a half tank of gas to go get it and bring it back so add another $50 to the bill for gas. No complaints here, it should work out beautifully. I started on replacing the weatherstrip today, should finish that tomorrow if the weather cooperates. The 95 frame had quite a bit of corrosion on it, I sanded, primed and painted several pieces of the frame. I have mixed feelings on the hard top, they look a little off to me, like they do not belong. This is probably because I am not accustomed to seeing them, my mind may change if I had one to live with.