How has your track-car ownership experience been with your C5?

Did the "Cheap track car" idea prove to be a myth all said and done? How much wrenching do you end up doing on a regular basis? Do you constantly have old car problems? Are the ABS and overheating issues overblown online?

I have a C7GS which is obviously amazing but I'm looking at swapping to something cheaper for track duty.

I don't mind wrenching at all, I kind of enjoy it, but I don't want to have to work on a track car before/after every event either.

I'm looking for feedback on this idea and sanity checks on if I'm going to regret it

 

I ran my S2000 in TT5 & SCCA Sport class for some years then moved to the C5 as parts are a bit easier to get.

While I'm not competing, mine is more of a HPDE / Autocross toy now.
There was a few old car quirks I had to end up solving but it's also due to my stupidity sometimes.

Really my only complaint was the lack of an Oil Cooler stock, and the radiator version will get you to handle a 20min session easy. I did a 98*F day with 70% humidity and didn't see over 250*F oil temps and that was prior to doing Hood Vents.
I broke the passenger side rack mount, so did the FDF Brace. Brakes, I just flush it annually with FCP Euro SRF so it's less of an issue. I have had a few Ice Mode incidents, but you do have to learn to drive around it or do a Mk60 ABS swap.
In MY EXPERIENCE getting pads that don't bite super hard initially really pretty much stopped my Ice mode incidents so far.

As for wrenching, yeah I have done my fair share, but it hasn't been too bad.

When I did my Harmonic Balancer & Crank Seal, I should have rebuilt the rack & adjusted Pre-load but you learn as you go.
When the 23 year old 92k mile Clutch Slave Cylinder went, I did a diff rebuild with C6Z Output Shafts, Upgraded Frictions + Bevel washers, Seals & Diff breather.
I also did the Torque tube & went through the MN12 for new Frictions, Billet Keys, and the 3/4 Fork + the Linkage U-Joints.

I did have a leaking water pump, so I went to the LS3 pump & thermostat.

Beyond 2 wheel bearings, brakes, tires, and 2 air dams my car really has been durable.

Doing the Diff Washers, an Oil Cooler, Upgrading to the LS3 water pump+thermostat, getting a Balancer done, and doing Delrin Bushings really are all the cars need. Getting your seat, shifter, wheel, and shocks+bars done is the rest.

 

I went from a C5 FRC (with LS6) to C7 GS. I did 20-30 events per year with the C5 but have cut back substantially in recent years. I'm finding the stock GS totally adequate for 5-6 events per year and the running costs are not overwhelming me - in fact they have been very reasonable.

Unless you find a C5 thats already 'built' for track, IMO you will need to do quite a bit of work. There is a good sticky on one guy's journey posted at the top of this section: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-learned.html. For serious track use (advanced level, 18+ track days per year) a C5 will need:

• Upgraded brakes - after a couple of years constantly cracking rotors and replacing pads, not to mention so-so performance, I gave up on stock brakes and went with AP Racing - no more constant wrenching on the brakes
• Oil Cooler / Radiator - there is no way you can keep temps under control without them
• Transmission and Rear Diff coolers - I went thru 2 diffs and a transmission before I got smart and installed coolers.
• Hubs - SKF racing hubs are mandatory - trying to find an open auto parts store on a Sunday and then replacing a hub in the paddock sucks - and I did it more than once until I once again learned that racing parts are expensive for a good reason, reliability.
• Oil Pressure - on slicks its possible to starve the motor in long sweepers. You need to address it in some way - baffled pan, dry sump, accusump
• The stock seats are crap for track use - your knees will be incredibly sore from trying to brace yourself if you don't replace them with buckets. This pretty much also means you will need harnesses and a harness or roll bar as well.

Once I made all the above 'reliability' changes the car was super reliable and the ongoing running costs very reasonable considering the performance it provides.

 

reposting as a reply

 

If you don't want to work on it before each session then you'd need to pay someone else. If you don't then you open yourself up to crash and burn as well as people behind you. Dump a oil line, coolant hose then someone slides on your fluid and into the wall. Tech inspections are mandatory even if the club/event doesn't require them.

 

I was at this same junction a while back, but I had a C6GS and bought a C4 as a track car.

It is ABSOLUTELY the way to go IMO. As you said, track insurance is expensive and racing a car you're ok with throwing the title and keys in a and walking away from it is nice.

Old cars do have their upkeep needs, but so do new cars. Upgrades is a question of how far you want to go. I'd probably upgrade brakes to larger brakes out of a newer Corvette to avoid the rotor cracking issues. Running on summer tores vs slicks saves your car a lot of wear and helps you improve as a driver.

 

this is encouraging feedback, thx. if i had a great condition c6gs, i'm sure i'd feel the same way

do you miss anything about your c6gs?

 

Thanks for the replies, guys. Overall it sounds like the experience is pretty good. Yes, the idea would be to buy one that's been already prepped.

I totally agree @argonaut , the running costs on the c7gs are actually great, aren't they. My issue is more psychological than financial.

I kind of miss some of my older track cars that weren't so new and in such amazing condition. With the C7GS - I find myself holding back on track at times, I don't toss the keys to my friends like I used to, I'm always stressing about damaging a car in great shape. Track insurance is high.

I think I might have enjoyed tracking my cheaper cars more because I didn't care as much about them. A prepped with c5 with ~30K in the bank doesn't sound bad either, haha.

@argonaut I have to ask - is there anything you miss about the c5 over your c7gs as far as the driving experience goes?

 

Oh. I kept it. Well, technically, I have a different one than THAT one but that's a different story.

C4 to C6GS is totally different cars. The C4 is manual, analog, and raw. It's a LOT less polished all around, so there's that. The C4 is more fun, because the steering feel is better, the turn in is faster, and the limits are lower. You can really foot it and not go to prison. Being largely a track car also means I'm free to go to kinda wild on it, it rodes super harsh now and has 6 point harnesses and a surprisingly not that loud free flowing exhaust. It's also cheap enough to "play" with. I taught myself how to weld building an exhaust for it. I'm gonna paint it myself. It's not perfect and that doesn't bother me at all. Having a shitbox car is actually very liberating lol, I don't even lock it a lot of the time. People would take one look at it and say "nope not stealing THAT" lol.

The C5 is a lot more modern feeling than the C4, so I don't think you'd have the same situation. A C5 isn't really THAT far off from a C5, the tech is the big difference and you can add that if you wanted.

Truth be told, I think about moving up into a C5 track car from time to time. The chassis is better but the car is a lot more forgiving. I wanted the C4 because it didn't have computers to bail me out, I wanted to learn. At this point however I think I'd prefer the little extra space in a C5 as a track car. Plus there's more support for the C5 for parts and stuff. The problem is most C5s are either automatically, or in too good of shape to be a cheap track car lol. And then you get into the "well if I'm gonna spend 12k for a C5 I could spend 15k for a C5Z", then it's a slippery slope to getting a cheap C6, and next thing you know you're tracking an expensive car again lol.

 

the slippery slope is real. and i used to track a shitbox car and yes it was liberating lol. i think im looking for that again

i was looking at either a base coupe 01-04 and build it up myself, or more ideally find a well-prepped one that someone is selling and start there. based on what im seeing i should be able to end up with a fairly good track car for around 20k or less.

 

There's a guy local to me on the space coast of FL selling a nicely prepped C5 for $15k. Not sure where you are, but $20k gets you well into a nicely prepped track car range. Assuming you're ok with a shitbox and don't expect a race car to be also something you'd use for date night.

 

I'm in Michigan but send the posting if its convenient I'll check it out

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1RxiGWKxVz/

No relation, I'm just looking at buying his spare set of wheels lol.

 

I assure you that's not a risk with a C5. Those computers won't bail you out, they'll just annoy you until you turn them off.

 

You might contact Danny Kellermeyer (Otisville) to see if he has any C5 or C6 cars he has worked on that might be for sale. He was a Team Manager o 6 C4 Corvette challange race teams in the late 80', did a lot of sspension set up for numerous C5/6/and 7 W2W cars in SCCA, WHRRA, etc. and also for John Heinracy. Judt a short list of what he has done.He can be contacted at DJRace

 

It's been a long time since I last tracked a C5. I started with a 97 in 97 and then moved on to an 03 Z06 that I tracked until 2009. There isn't too much difference between the recommendations for the C5 and the C5Z.

The first thing is to cool the engine. I did that with Doug Rippie setup that used a Ron Davis Racing Radiator with built in Oil Cooler and a remote oil filter. I used that setup on both the LS1 and the LS6 and never saw oil temperatures over 230 degrees after that.

Plan on adding an extra power steering cooler to reduce the PS pump fluid temperature. I saw a number of C5 race cars that installed a large transmission cooler in place of the small Z06 cooler and that ended the mess they were having with power steering fluid boiling out of the reservoir. When running an LS1 or LS6 on track with the stock oiling system, you need to add an extra quart of oil. With the oil cooler and the remote oil filter adding capacity for two more quarts of oil, I was running 9 quarts of oil in the system.

The next thing to do is to dump the stock brakes or at least the stock front brakes. The stock floating calipers tend to taper the front pads which results in a long pedal with the brake pedal sometimes dropping below the gas pedal, making heel/toe very hard. I used a set of Wilwood SL6 calipers that were modified to fit under the stock C5Z front wheel. The pads still tapered to some degree but I didn't get the long pedal after two sessions at the Glen. However, keeping the same size brake rotors will mean an investment in carrying spare rotors. At each two-day event I would change at least two rotors, either front or back. Luckily, I was running the NAPA UltraPremium rotors, which I could get for $25 each back in the early 2000s. I kept all of the broken rotors and after 12 years of running the C5s, I took 500 pounds of scrap rotors to the scrap yard and got $00.15/lb for them.

Add a diff cooler to keep diff temps down.

Go to better wheel bearings.I went through wheel bearings at a good clip on both the C5 and the C5Z and I got quite good at swapping front wheel bearings. Although the C5Z was the better track car from a performance standpoint, it went through bearings at about the same rate as the 97.

The last thing is to replace the stock crappy pseudo bucket seats with real race seats so you don't have to fight the Gs pulling you out of the seat at every corner. Keep the car cool, and resolve the brake wear problem. I used the stock suspensions on both of my C5s and they did just fine on track. The advantage of the LS1 and LS6 is that both engines can be run hard, and they will take it. I know one guy who put close to 60K track miles on his LS6 before it suffered a catastrophic failure.

A big issue on the 97s was the EBCM, it had a tendency to lose phase lock on the wheel speed signals resulting in no ABS and flatspotting of tires. GM came out with an updated ECM that didn't hit service until 99 and most cars weren't updated since the lockup failure happened on road courses and autocross courses. Neither of those EBCMs is available anymore. I believe the same goes for the 98 through 2000 EBCMs. The 2001-2004 EBCMs have a relay that burns its contacts due to excessive current draw in the BPMV, which means both units have failed, but the EBCM may be able to be repaired. As with all Corvettes, except for the ABS, the driver aids can all be turned off.

C5s are still a strong track car and I see some of them running with my C7Z at times.

Bill

 

appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm hoping to find a car with all or most of that already done. Can you compare the driving experience a little bit to a stock c7GS, or maybe your c7z in stock form? I know the power will be night and day....I'm interested in chassis communication and suspension/steering feel.

 

Just in case it's the case by you, when I was looking the C5 and C6 were very close to the same cost. So.. I have a C6 now.

I also tracked a C4 but it really eats wheel bearings

 

I ran a 2003 Z06 with stock seats, stock brakes, and stock cooling for a decade. For the seat I did use angel pads eventually and needed to brace the seatback to keep it from falling. Overall experience was good.

I did have to open up the ECBM for the typical repair, both the starter and crank position sensor flaked out around midlife. Did the valve springs out of caution.
But otherwise it needed a front rotor every 2-4 track days, lots of front pads, all four hubs eventually, and tires/fluids. Keeping on top of the front brakes was the main theme - going to the track without the ability to change a front rotor would be dicey.

Overall the C7 will have much better body control and everything about the car is built around a vastly stickier OEM tire, but otherwise I think you will find they drive similarly. IMO the C5 is somewhat more relaxed out of the box than the C6/C7 widebodies.

 

I totally get the psychology of not wanting to trash a beautiful C7 - they are stunning cars. I feel exactly the same way. Probably once a week I catch my self thinking - I should really get a cheap track car and not drive the GS on the track.

In stock form I would much prefer the C7GS to a C5. Its stiffer, wider, more tire, better brakes, etc. But....my C5 was totally prepped for the track including headers, tune, crate LS6, slicks, LG coil overs and mono ball suspension, aggressive alignment, MCW shifter, Tick master cylinder, adjustable sways and end links, mostly gutted, etc, etc. So as it sat it was lighter, faster and more fun than the stock GS, except for the brakes (I have AP Racing Radical on all 4s of the GS and they are FANTASTIC). The two cars have a really similar feel overall because, duh, the C7 is just an evolution of the C5. The balance is the same, the feeling of rotation same, the way the car telegraphs its intentions are all the same - overall the C7 is probably a little more numb, you feel a bit more isolated - but that seems to be true of every sports car - each generation is less 'raw', more smooth and cushy than the generation before.