Good evening. Today I installed cat deletes, Mamo ported throttle bodies and an Eventuri intake on my 23 z06. The car already had a Soler throttle controller on it.

Upon first start, everything was fine. No CEL. I did the relearn procedure where you turn the car on for 3 minutes, turn it off for 3 minutes and do this cycle 3 times then drive it for a few miles. Everything seemed to be fine, so I went home. About 20 minutes later I went out again and symptom #1 started. In 1st gear, if you applied acceleration from a stop, the RPMS would stay up and it seemed like the throttle was stuck on/would not decelerate. Changing gears, speeding up or applying the brake would make it go away, so I figured maybe it just needs some more time to learn the new airflow mods. About 10 miles later, the car goes into limp mode. Almost like it was misfiring real bad -- the car sounded like it was cammed. I was able to get home and decided to pop the trunk and take a look and see if something wasn't plugged in correctly. Symptom #2 - The cat deletes were GLOWING red and it felt like 1000 degrees in the engine bay (I wasn't driving the car hard at all, never even went over 55mph). Not sure if they were already like this or if it started after the CEL, or if the CEL was caused by the heat. The temperature on the dash was bouncing from 188-209 on my drive home in limp mode which didn't seem to be terrible. Symptom #3 - I have a code reader, so I ran the codes after I got home and found an active P0639 code Throttle Actuator control (TAC) Bank 2.

The car is way too hot for me to even try to check connections, and this code isn't really bringing up much when I do a search. I found 1 or 2 articles about similar issues (minus the red hot glowing cats -- not sure if this is common on this car) where suggestions were to clear the code, unplug the battery for a few hours, turn it back on and do the relearn procedure again, so that's where I am going to start tomorrow along with checking to ensure the connector to the TB is tight. However, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions or similar problems with installing ported throttle bodies and/or accompanying it with the Soler throttle controller? I'll have to wait until Monday to talk to Tony Mamo or someone at Soler, however the car has been running fine for about 1000 miles with the Soler throttle controller by itself, so I don't know if that has anything to do with this issue I am experiencing, although I guess that combined with the TBs, maybe?

Thanks in advance.

 

OMG !!! I installed the Eventuri intake, Soler TB’s and Soler throttle controller and had no issues. I would guess that your issue has to do with the cats just because we have the same mods (except cats) and mine has been running fine for over a year. Hope you can solve this issue soon.

 

My guess is that you something that is not plugged in all the way and clipped and locked. Sounds like you had the battery disconnected during the installation so that is good and you followed the post installation instructions. I would remove battery and then check all the connections to ensure they are connected properly. Might be best to unplug each one and redo just to make sure instead of just like a jiggle test. Then reconnect battery and go back through the learn in process.

Good luck.

Might want to look into some highflow cats if the cat deletes are the issue. Which cat delete solution did you go with?

 

i wonder if one side/ TB is not working ....do not drive it with those cats red hot [lean?]

 

I agree with checking all the connectors and would also watch for an air leak - something not plugged in or not sealed properly.

Hope it's something simple!

 

As stated above sounds like either one bank has a disconnected MAF sensor, tb plug or bad tb. Also a coupler could have moved on eventuri allowing extra air in. Doubt it’s the deletes as they are downstream the main 02 more likely something on the intake side. Really need to codes tho….

if mechanically inclined you can swap the stock tbs back on the eventuri without taking it off takes just a little patience and slide back the coupler there is enough room to get them out. (Four 10mm bolts, one is attached to a bracket)Sometimes w the eventuri the coupler will appear on from the top but be off from the bottom.

 

Sorry to hear that...

As a question nor just for the OP but also others who responded saying they have done these mods as well without issues... as a new C8 Z06 owner I've been reading about people doing similar mods with TB, throttle controller, CAI, cat deletes and also cat back exhaust and it seem like the general consensus is that even all of these together do not add any consistent power to this super high strung engine. I confirmed these results multiple times and there seems to be no evidence that these mods are improving any lap times or 0-60, 1/4 mile or onramp thrills.

Given that seems to be true, can you tell me what you added them for, was it the sound or maybe look of the intakes? What does the cat delete do, more sound? I'm very reluctant to do anything that could void the warranty or damage this incredible Ferrari-like engine, as it already has me shredding track times and canyons like a true supercar and I don't want to spoil that.

 

I think everyone here would be most interested in your multiple confirmation testing results. Please post and share.

 

Interested as well. I was planning to do the same mods soon.

 

I do not see too many before and after dyno results at all but I hear about sound and dyno butt . It seems the biggest modification recommendation is the throttle commander ....that says much about mods .

 

I just checked and the Eventuri intake alone would be at least $3000 installed for no HP gain... you sound like you already decided, please clarify what your own reason is for getting this. I'm sure the cat deletes and TBs are costly too, total must be over $5000 for no HP, that's over 1/2 cost of a set of Ohlins TTX or a big wing from Verus and both of those are probably good for at least 2 seconds on a 2 minute track.

 

The glowing red exhaust is because it went into limp mode. The ECU was either not getting the data it needed, like an O2 sensor was damaged unplugged, or it was getting bad data, like the wiring harness was not fully seated, or the wiring loom was strecthed tight becuase it was rerouted or the aftermarket equipment is positioned differently than oem. Strecthing a wire loom tight makes the wire longer and thinner and increases impedance, which then changes the voltage that the ECU sees.

The way modern cars make big power with good gas milage and good emissions is through high compression, tight control of A/F mixture and agressive spark timing (ignition advance).

If the ECU doesnt have all of the A/F data or knock sensor data, it goes into limp mode to protect the engine. That includes running a rich A/F mixture, which is much safer than lean (cooler cylinder temperatures), and it retards the timing advance. The retarded timing makes less power, but it decreases the chance of detonation, therefore protecting the engine.

The reason retarded timing makes less power is because instead of getting all of the A/F charge to burn completely during the power stroke, it ignites late and is still burning when the exhaust valves open. This leads to part of the A/F charge burning in the exhaust, rather than in the cylinder. Buring the A/F mixture in the exhaust instead of the cylinder is what led to the glowing red "track section" downpipes.

And since limp mode richens the mixture for engine protection, it means even that much more fuel is burning inside the exhaust pipe.

As suggested above, try disconnecting your wiring harness connector position assurance locks and re-seat them.

 

Sorry I didn't save the results of the multiple Google searches and other threads about this to a word doc, but that was the best confirmation I could find including someone who did a back to back comparo between Eventuri and another CAI where the Eventuri won but the increase was still very small amounting to no meaningful increase IMO. What these results seem to show is that this motor is already maximized like other similar NA motors (911 GT3, Ferrari 458, Huracan). Do a search and you should find the same results, I could not find was any testing that showed significant increase in power except maybe on the Eventuri site but maybe you will have better luck with something I missed.

 

Is this part of your multiple confirmation testing results that you are going to share?

 

Do you have results showing a meaningful gain, I may have missed it. I was searching carefully because I was hoping this CAI increased power in a way that made it a good mod in terms of $/HP but after seeing the same firsthand results other users on this site found I came to the same conclusion as others. That and the warranty risk with an 8600 RPM motor made me very hesitant.

Just did another quick search and the Google AI summary of of the same results I found says the gains are 2-4% increase in HP/TQ, I assume like other intakes (ie Rotofab for my LT4) you need a tune to maximize what this and other intakes could do but I'm not ready to void my warranty.

 

He's not wrong.

Every video you see where they show 30 hp increase for an intake, the dyno pulls are done on different days, different temps (they put off the dyno pulls until they get a lower DA to optimize their results), they don't tell you that they are running the same batch of fuel or you see some dyno trickery; like the baseline run only goes to 8,200 rpm and the car never reached peak power.

But the videos where they are trying to avoid confirmation bias, do a same day swap and tell you they are running the same fuel, the first dyno runs with the Eventuri intake show lower HP than stock, then as the ECU learns the new intake, the Eventuri eventualy gets back up to stock HP numbers.

I'm guessing you bought an Eventuri intake and are having a hard time accepting evidence that contradicts Eventuri's marketing claims?

 

Oh certainly not you have not missed anything. I"m the one that has posted above for you to please provide the information from your statement "I confirmed these results multiple times and there seems to be no evidence that these mods are improving any lap times or 0-60, 1/4 mile or onramp thrills." and it seems now stating "Just did another quick search and the Google AI summary of of the same results I found says the gains are 2-4% increase in HP/TQ," I'm simply interested to see if you have anything to offer outside of the few outliers that I have seen against the masses and share with the forum. Now from your Reponses you are saying that google shows a bunch of data saying no gains and AI is saying 2-4% which would be 13 to 26 hp/tq. Nothing malicious, Just some data for your strong statements.

 

Quick update everyone --

First of all, Tony Mamo is awesome. Yesterday was Sunday and Father's day, yet he still called me after he read this post. That level of customer service is not something you're going to get anywhere else in my opinion. So, what I ended up doing:

Since I was getting a code for the throttle actuator on bank 2, I decided to just take them off and swap them in anticipation of the code coming back and moving to bank 1 (if there was an issue with the TB itself). To my surprise (and happiness), after doing the swap and driving around for awhile, the code did NOT come back. I am assuming there had to have been a connector loose or something else, although I am sure I checked them all. I think Phimosis is spot on in his comment here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...#post160971993 and superramvette2 here https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1609718974. There must have been something the car didn't like. I double checked to make sure the Eventuri was properly seated to the TBs as well. I am going out of town tomorrow and Wednesday, so I won't be able to get some more miles on the car until probably the weekend, but this is the farthest I've driven it since the mods were installed without throwing a code. If after a weekend of driving still doesn't come back, I will call this one closed.

To address another comment about whether or not the mods are "worth it" or if there are any real gains from spending $3,000 for the intake, or $900 for the TBs: I did a few 60-130 dragy runs before installing everything. Once I've given the car enough miles to get used to all the new airflow, I will run another few 60-130s on the dragy and let everyone know in this thread if I gained, lost, or maintained the same numbers. One thing to note -- weight savings matters on this car. The stock intake was pretty heavy compared to the Eventuri (I am dumb and was too excited to get started installing it, so I forgot to weigh them). But the weight savings alone from swapping to the titanium cat back, plus eventuri intake, plus cat deletes I would have to say is likely to be at least 100 pounds or more. All of that is not cheap, but the sound and weight savings alone to me is well worth it for this car. Fingers crossed that I see realized gains on the dragy, but even if I don't, I am still happy with the purchases.

 

LOL. No I do not have an Eventuri intake. The OP is asking for help with his mods and most of us here have been trying to help. In addition we have a sub thread stating they have confirmed results multiple times that these types of upgrades essentially do nothing. As it was hard trying to find good data points on what I wanted to upgrade on my own personal car when I was looking. I have simply asked several times for this evidence, so others can have ease of making a decision.

 

I installed the Soler Performance TB’s, their Controller and the Eventuri Intake. The intake and TB’s are designed to increase air volume (not as exaggerated as a super charger or turbo) and any increase on air volume will result in the computer adding more fuel to maintain the air to fuel ratio. That by itself increases power.