Test only smog check - need help!
02-13-2010, 12:32 AM
#21
Drifting
First, the part cannot cause any ill effects on the emissions equipment.
Second, the manufacturer needs to apply and have their part tested (can be $$$) to prove it doesn't negatively effect the emissions.
Third, CARB will issue an executive order number (EO #) that lists the specific application of the part so it will pass the visual test.
A lot of parts are capable of getting CARB EO#'s but the manufacturer doesn't apply & pay for testing to get one.
If you ever have a question, check this web site:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php
02-13-2010, 04:43 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Hey Guys.... Im in the sam boat.. dose anyone have a stock intake I can borrow for a dy just to get my car tested...
Ive got a Vararam.. passed all the sniffer stuff but failed the visual...
I found most of my OEM intake but Im missing th epiece that attaches to the airbridge... HELP!
Aaron 858 449 6211
Ive got a Vararam.. passed all the sniffer stuff but failed the visual...
I found most of my OEM intake but Im missing th epiece that attaches to the airbridge... HELP!
Aaron 858 449 6211
02-13-2010, 07:15 PM
#23
Drifting
A few years ago I asked a CF member who did smog checks in California if he thought my Blackwing would pass. This was his response:
"Again it depends upon the technician. Some are extremely ****, and some are rather loose on air filtration systems.
The DCA/BAR's ruling on them is as Follows on Page 4 of Appendix K: Under Items of Non-Concern, Cold Air / Air filtration systems that retained ALL of the factory EVAP hoses, fittings and connections, are legal.
IIRC, since the Blackwing removes the box, but allots the Air Injection system to still have access to air (via a filter placed on to that inlet line), it should indeed be an item of non-concern, thus passing the test."
So I guess you have to armed with Page 4 of Appendix K, although I doubt these smog techs will take the time to read it and make a decision.
..rickko..
"Again it depends upon the technician. Some are extremely ****, and some are rather loose on air filtration systems.
The DCA/BAR's ruling on them is as Follows on Page 4 of Appendix K: Under Items of Non-Concern, Cold Air / Air filtration systems that retained ALL of the factory EVAP hoses, fittings and connections, are legal.
IIRC, since the Blackwing removes the box, but allots the Air Injection system to still have access to air (via a filter placed on to that inlet line), it should indeed be an item of non-concern, thus passing the test."
So I guess you have to armed with Page 4 of Appendix K, although I doubt these smog techs will take the time to read it and make a decision.
..rickko..
02-15-2010, 12:02 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
SON OF A BITCH !!!!
Ok heres what Ive found out! And Im more that just a little pissed!
The information above is correct.. but have been moved and changed a bit...
But The "SMOG CHECK REFERENCE GUIDE", a Bureau of Automotive Repait booklet states in Appendix G...
In the introduction ...
Introduction
Aftermarket parts fall into four categories:
• Replacement Parts
• Consolidated Parts
• Modified Parts
• Add-on Parts
In general, Modified Parts and Add-on Parts require California Air Resources Board (CARB) (this wwe all know..)
exemption through an Executive Order (EO).
Replacement Parts and Consolidated Parts do
not require exemption. For more information, see the definitions below.
CARB Definitions of Aftermarket Parts
Replacement Part
“Replacement part” means any aftermarket part intended to replace an original equipment
emissions-related part and which is functionally identical to the original equipment part in all
respects which in any way affect emissions (including durability) or a consolidated part.
California Code of Regulations (CCR) Title 13 § 1900 (b) (20)
Replacement parts do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California.
Examples include replacement air filter elements, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor
caps, chromed valve covers, replacement EGR valves, and replacement carburetors. (Note: A
replacement EGR valve or carburetor must be specified as replacement, by the part
manufacturer, for the vehicle on which it is installed).
CARB Definitions of Aftermarket Parts
Consolidated Part
“Consolidated part” means a part which is designed to replace a group of original equipment parts
and which is functionally identical of those original parts in all respects which in any way affect
emissions (including durability). A consolidated part may qualify as replacement part.
CCR Title 13 § 1900 (b) (2)
Consolidated parts do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California.
further on in the document it states
I have the rest of teh document if anyone wants it... it reads like BLA Bla Bla.. but the important thing is that as long as a replacement part dose nothing diffrent AND maintains all of te connections of the OEM part IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A CARB NUMBER.. as rickkos document states.. it is of no concern As I read this document...
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...2-09%20V-2.pdf
Ok heres what Ive found out! And Im more that just a little pissed!
The information above is correct.. but have been moved and changed a bit...
But The "SMOG CHECK REFERENCE GUIDE", a Bureau of Automotive Repait booklet states in Appendix G...
In the introduction ...
Introduction
Aftermarket parts fall into four categories:
• Replacement Parts
• Consolidated Parts
• Modified Parts
• Add-on Parts
In general, Modified Parts and Add-on Parts require California Air Resources Board (CARB) (this wwe all know..)
exemption through an Executive Order (EO).
Replacement Parts and Consolidated Parts do
not require exemption. For more information, see the definitions below.
CARB Definitions of Aftermarket Parts
Replacement Part
“Replacement part” means any aftermarket part intended to replace an original equipment
emissions-related part and which is functionally identical to the original equipment part in all
respects which in any way affect emissions (including durability) or a consolidated part.
California Code of Regulations (CCR) Title 13 § 1900 (b) (20)
Replacement parts do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California.
Examples include replacement air filter elements, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor
caps, chromed valve covers, replacement EGR valves, and replacement carburetors. (Note: A
replacement EGR valve or carburetor must be specified as replacement, by the part
manufacturer, for the vehicle on which it is installed).
CARB Definitions of Aftermarket Parts
Consolidated Part
“Consolidated part” means a part which is designed to replace a group of original equipment parts
and which is functionally identical of those original parts in all respects which in any way affect
emissions (including durability). A consolidated part may qualify as replacement part.
CCR Title 13 § 1900 (b) (2)
Consolidated parts do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California.
further on in the document it states
For the purposes of a Smog Check inspection, the following parts and emission
control changes are acceptable provided that all of the required emission
controls are connected and functioning. When conducting a Smog Check
inspection, it is not necessary to check for a CARB Executive Order for the
following:
• Any emissions related part marketed by the parts manufacturer as a replacement for the original equipment.
control changes are acceptable provided that all of the required emission
controls are connected and functioning. When conducting a Smog Check
inspection, it is not necessary to check for a CARB Executive Order for the
following:
• Any emissions related part marketed by the parts manufacturer as a replacement for the original equipment.
I have the rest of teh document if anyone wants it... it reads like BLA Bla Bla.. but the important thing is that as long as a replacement part dose nothing diffrent AND maintains all of te connections of the OEM part IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A CARB NUMBER.. as rickkos document states.. it is of no concern As I read this document...
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...2-09%20V-2.pdf
Last edited by BitViper; 02-15-2010 at 02:46 PM.
02-15-2010, 02:30 PM
#25
Drifting
I'm not sure this means that any air intake that filters air with all emissions equipment attached is automatically exempt. I believe it has to be PROVED that is doesn't affect emissions. That's why they developed the whole testing regimen.
I base this on the belief that I doubt Callaway would have gone through the time and expense of getting a CARB EO# for the Honker air intake, if it would have been legal without one.
I'm no expert, it just doesn't seem that easy. If you can borrow a stock unit, I'd swap it to be safe.
Good luck in any case.......
02-15-2010, 02:35 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
Hmm does the honker keep all the air box connections? Something is diffrent there or maybe they just had the bucks and the means and did it anyway.
The reference from Rickko's friend states that cold air / air filtration systems that retained ALL of the factory EVAP hoses, fittings and connections, are legal.
This still applies in all the documentation that Ive read to date...
The kicker here is that for all replacement parts and after market parts this applies
"a part which is designed to replace a group of original equipment parts and which is functionally identical of those original parts ..(sic) do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California"
The reference from Rickko's friend states that cold air / air filtration systems that retained ALL of the factory EVAP hoses, fittings and connections, are legal.
This still applies in all the documentation that Ive read to date...
The kicker here is that for all replacement parts and after market parts this applies
"a part which is designed to replace a group of original equipment parts and which is functionally identical of those original parts ..(sic) do not require a CARB exemption to be installed on vehicles in California"
Last edited by BitViper; 02-15-2010 at 02:51 PM.
02-15-2010, 08:53 PM
#27
Great info Honker relocates the MAF in older C5's so I would guess this can be seen as making changes to the function of emission system thus requiring EO #'r. That is my guess plus Caloway has serious $$$ behind them and they sell the system for big bucks, maybe part of this is to recoup the cost of certification. The real problem is if the tech fails you on the visual who do you have to see for any kind of recourse. He could simply say "when in doubt -fail" then it would be up to you to appeal to I don't know the CARB? It all sucks, it should be if it passes the sniffer who cares what is under the hood, and I know that is only a pipe dream here in Cali. Besides if this was true one could argue that LT Headers are legal because they retain all connections (cats & O2 sensors). Good luck, Zagger.
Last edited by zagger; 02-15-2010 at 08:57 PM.
02-15-2010, 11:19 PM
#28
Race Director
Many years ago, I took my 68 in for a smog test (back when 66 and newer cars had to be smogged). The technician saw my factory open-air intake filter assembly and told me my car would fail if he continued. I pulled out my factory assembly manual and showed him the drawing of a 1968 Corvette's intake system, including the open element air cleaner assembly.
He replied, "I don't know where you got that manual from." I showed him that it was an official factory manual, but it was of no use - FAIL.
The reason I mention this is that even though something may be legit, a smog tech can refuse to smog test if there is the least bit of suspicion.
Regarding swapping out intakes: This is why I warn folks to think twice about anything that is a royal pain to swap out (headers and Vararam intakes). My Halltech intake takes less than 20 minutes to swap out. Keep in mind that it takes the ECU a while to dial in a lower-flowing intake system. This is why you shouldn't swap out the intake and immediately get your car smogged. I swap mine out a full 2 weeks before the test and make darn sure the engine and cats are super hot when I drive in.
He replied, "I don't know where you got that manual from." I showed him that it was an official factory manual, but it was of no use - FAIL.
The reason I mention this is that even though something may be legit, a smog tech can refuse to smog test if there is the least bit of suspicion.
Regarding swapping out intakes: This is why I warn folks to think twice about anything that is a royal pain to swap out (headers and Vararam intakes). My Halltech intake takes less than 20 minutes to swap out. Keep in mind that it takes the ECU a while to dial in a lower-flowing intake system. This is why you shouldn't swap out the intake and immediately get your car smogged. I swap mine out a full 2 weeks before the test and make darn sure the engine and cats are super hot when I drive in.
02-16-2010, 12:09 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
Ok.. got off the phone with the state smog refree.... He confirms that my interpertation of Appendix G is correct..
As long as the Cold air kit maintains the OEM connections it is exempt!
The only connection for the Vararam and the OEM box is the breather tube..
He said that if you're failed on a visual and you have a disagreement with the guy doing the test file a complaint to a state refree aginst the shop and tester
As long as the Cold air kit maintains the OEM connections it is exempt!
The only connection for the Vararam and the OEM box is the breather tube..
He said that if you're failed on a visual and you have a disagreement with the guy doing the test file a complaint to a state refree aginst the shop and tester
Last edited by BitViper; 02-16-2010 at 12:15 PM.
02-16-2010, 01:02 PM
#30
Drifting
Ok.. got off the phone with the state smog refree.... He confirms that my interpertation of Appendix G is correct..
As long as the Cold air kit maintains the OEM connections it is exempt!
The only connection for the Vararam and the OEM box is the breather tube..
He said that if you're failed on a visual and you have a disagreement with the guy doing the test file a complaint to a state refree aginst the shop and tester
As long as the Cold air kit maintains the OEM connections it is exempt!
The only connection for the Vararam and the OEM box is the breather tube..
He said that if you're failed on a visual and you have a disagreement with the guy doing the test file a complaint to a state refree aginst the shop and tester
Wow....... that's good news, I'll have to file this thread
02-16-2010, 03:03 PM
#31
Race Director
I would advise anyone to call ahead of time before actually driving down to the smog station. Explain what you were told and see what the tech says. If he doesn't believe you, see if you can get him to verify with BAR. Otherwise, you'll have wasted your time and fuel.
Another thing to remove prior to the test is your oil catch can. Since it is hooked up to the PCV line, it is considered to be an alteration of this part of the emissions system.
Another thing to remove prior to the test is your oil catch can. Since it is hooked up to the PCV line, it is considered to be an alteration of this part of the emissions system.
02-16-2010, 03:11 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
I would advise anyone to call ahead of time before actually driving down to the smog station. Explain what you were told and see what the tech says. If he doesn't believe you, see if you can get him to verify with BAR. Otherwise, you'll have wasted your time and fuel.
Another thing to remove prior to the test is your oil catch can. Since it is hooked up to the PCV line, it is considered to be an alteration of this part of the emissions system.
Another thing to remove prior to the test is your oil catch can. Since it is hooked up to the PCV line, it is considered to be an alteration of this part of the emissions system.
Id recomend that you d/l the doc.. print out and take it with you too
02-21-2010, 03:47 PM
#34
Instructor
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So I already know I am going to fail smog for my long tubes " I plan on changing those and going with a stock exhaust, however will I fail for my supercharger kit?
02-21-2010, 05:55 PM
#35
Race Director
Almost all superchargers have a C.A.R.B. sticker and are thus, legal in CA. If you don't have the plate or sticker, call the manufacturer for a replacement.
02-21-2010, 05:58 PM
#36
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I just went out and looked at the plate. The eo number is blank. And I am being told that the setup for my car was one of the ones that did not have them as it was ecs who built them. So if it dosent have it I am selling the car, rather than replace the supercharger and full exhuast.
02-24-2010, 09:41 PM
#37
Heel & Toe
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I just had my '02 coupe smogged at South Cal Smog on Ruffner St in San Diego. I passed without a hitch, with Blackwing installed. The Corvette Shop, where I get most of my work done, is in the same building, so they may be a little more forgiving.
Mark
Mark
02-25-2010, 03:12 PM
#38
Race Director
What did your car produce for HCs? I never take the chance when it come to preparing for the visual, + it gives me the opportunity to spend some time cleaning my Halltech Stinger intake filter.
You're probably better off in the long run.
I just went out and looked at the plate. The eo number is blank. And I am being told that the setup for my car was one of the ones that did not have them as it was ecs who built them. So if it dosent have it I am selling the car, rather than replace the supercharger and full exhuast.
