frankz06_cf

Now with Automatic License Plate Readers the Front License Plate movement will get a boost. I live in Florida where we don't have Front License Plates so far. 3M is a big supporter of front license plates and other companies surely, they even a website promoting Front License Plates.

There's a new page on facebook for us car enthusiast to organize; contact our representatives; support each other in this goal to have the USA be a No Front License Plate Country.

The link is: https://www.facebook.com/nofrontplatesusa

Please "Like" it and share. We can write to our legislator, post latest developments etc...

Blue Blood

My son got a camera ticket in my car with no front plate, no additional citation for no plate.

whalepirot

It may be uninforceable if there is no court to respond to. Many munis are farming these out to private companies, offering no due process. Channel 11, I believe, did a piece on this some months ago, mentioning a Phoenix company.

Check into it.

ufso

ETHYL

Not a waste of time for the meter maids.Years ago in the LA area the meter maids job also included checking for missing plates.

Blue Blood

I had an easier route, my sons are twins, couldn’t prove which was driving the car.

Nokones

The private company in Phoenix is the company that owns and maintains the camera system. That company is "Redflex". Based on the location of the Red Light Camera System the law enforcement agency responsible for traffic enforcement physically reviews all red light violations that the red light camera system detects.

The camera system is only activated during the red light phase of the traffic signal. The camera system produces a series of still photos and a 13 second video of the violation. The system takes photos of the position of the car in relationship to the limit line with the red light in the photo and a photo of the car passed the limit line with the red light in the photo. The photos also included both license plates and a picture of the driver.

The reviewing Officer runs the license plate through the DMV system and matches the vehicle owner's name to a driver's license record and photo. If they match, the reviewing Officer initiates a citation via the Camera System and the System mails the citation to the driver and a copy to the Court.

If the driver contest the citation, which most do, the reviewing Officer request a "Court Package" from RedFlex and the package consist of the photos, the video, and the copy of the citation issued.

The reviewing Officer attends Court and testifies to the reviewing of the violation and presents the photos and video to the Court. At that point the driver is allowed to present his/her bullshit story and the judge will most likely and does fine the driver, the $479 fine.

Good luck with trying to convince the judge that the system was in error and the light you ran was yellow at the time or the yellow was illuminated for a short period of time. That has not worked very well for anyone.

Nokones

The camera system also will detect the actual speed of the car, people on their cell phones and open containers. However, under the California law, the Court can only enforce the red light violation with the camera system.

twoweeled

I'm years late, but I hope your son didn't pay it. I read your sons are twins. Really didn't even have to answer it. But once you do answer, you're on the hook!

Nokones

Pursuant to California statutes, photo enforcement citations can only be issued for red-light violations.

twoweeled

Unless something has changed in the last year, they can be issued, but enforcement is another story to the extent of fines or other punishment (regarding red lights and stop signs).

Nokones

Photo enforcement citations can only be issued legally for red light citations. There is legislation currently in committee for amending the statute to allow photo enforcement for the speed laws. Currently, any other violation than the Red light violation can not be enforced under the photo enforcement statute.

Bob Paris

Since most people without front plates have driven for years and/or decades without being cited, it is not a major source of revenue. The thinking, post-9/11, is that a vehicle entering a "target" area without a front plate is suspicious and warrants furthern attention from law enforcement. The law will not be repealed.

twoweeled

It appears you are in AZ? Maybe in AZ this is the case. As of just prior to Covid for certain, stop light enforcement was not possible. Maybe something has changed since then. They have been citing for many years. Maybe more than 10 years. The only people who paid these tickets, were people who responded to the tickets. Once you responded in anyway, you were on the hook. No response, nothing happened. Some counties did try to overturn it, but it was back and forth for quite some time. But not enforceable unless you responded. Threats would follow if you didn't respond. Cities even came back with offers of a lower fine, but could never force payment, not even through DMV. DMV has always been the threat. They would not register the vehicle if in violation. Not the case with these camera tickets. Like I said, unless something has changed since pre covid. It was telling to me. Many cities pulled down their cameras after the fight was lost the first or second time. But some cities kept the cameras going even though they knew they could not force the issue. It worked for a few years with some. Maybe Cities have won the battle, finally. The last couple of years, I'm not positive of. Before that, I am positive of. It was even difficult to get accurate info on this.

Nokones

Yes, I do live on Arizona. However, I was citing the California statutes which is the topic of this discussion. Photo Enforcement citations are computered issued and not hand-written by the reviewing Officer. When the reviewing Officer verifies the violation by obtaining the vehicle registration information and matching the owner's info with a driver's license record and the driver's license photograph, the reviewing officers clicks the appropriate box on the computer screen to confirm the violation, the system automatically sends the appropriate documents which includes the citation and the violated vehicle code is automatically listed on the computerized citation and that code is 21453(a) of the "California" Vehicle Code. No other violation can be added or the 21453(a) Cvc be changed. If the violation is a right or left turn the reviewing Officer will have to request that the violation be changed to subsection (b) or (c) accordingly when he or she testifies in court.

So, tell me how can any law enforcement agency can add another violation to the photo enforcement citation?

twoweeled

I don't see much chance of that. I think their view is, the more laws the better. I think it's like stop signs. It's easier for cities to just keep adding new ones. I rarely (if ever) see a city worker removing a stop sign. We have a lot of stop signs here in So California, and they are still added more! Wish they'd concentrate more on fixing streets!

twoweeled

Yep! That's how it works alright. I hope I didn't say anything about adding other violations to these photo citations. I didn't mean to say that. I was stating these tickets while still going out to people are not enforceable. My interpretation of not enforceable is, they can't fine you, or put any marks against your driving record. DMV will not withhold your registration renewal either. I don't think I said anything about adding other infractions. They can't even enforce the red light, not sure why they'd add others. If I said or implied that, it was a mistake.
This is prior to a couple of years ago. Maybe they've gotten around it now. But the way you explained it is the way they've been doing it for MANY MANY years, and wasn't enforceable then, I "doubt" it is now. That's my experience.

Nokones

The cities and county government bodies have the say if they want or do not want the photo enforcement program. The Vehicle Code is pretty clear that only the red light violations can be enforced with photo enforcement.

Nokones

As I mentioned, if the reviewing Officer matches the photo of the driver violating the Red light to his driver's license photo and if the citation is contested by the driver and goes to court the reviewing Officer will testify accordingly and the Judge will base his ruling on the evidence presented by both parties and you can count on if the judge sides with the Officer there will be fine, usually around $479 and that offense will be on the driver's record and a DMV point towards the driver.

twoweeled

Correct. As I mentioned, if you answer the citation in anyway, you are then on the hook. If you answer the citation, then it's as you say. if you don't respond, go have a beer in your man cave. I think they were charging $600ish here back then. Then they made offers of $300 ish if you didn't respond. It's been years.