savewave

Gary at Corvette Masters registered so he could respond to this post, but his registration has not been activated because Forum rules don't allow the use of a company name as a user ID except by supporting vendors.

I've told him we can change his user ID to something other than the name of his company or he can send his response for me to post on his behalf.

Meanwhile, please be reminded of the Forum's rules/guiddelines on threads involving unresolved disputes:

Unresolved disputes:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1118161

The Forum allows a factual post on an unresolved dispute with a vendor or another member once all efforts to resolve the issue offline have been exhausted. Then, the post must be factual and cannot be used to bash the vendor or the member. Once the post has been made, it cannot be repeated in other sections or on other days.

Moderators will try to leave such threads open until everybody with direct knowledge of the issue being addressed has had a chance to provide their version of the facts. The thread must not become a running debate on the accuracy of the “facts” and may not deteriorate into an exchange of personal attacks. Neither should be used as an opportunity for speculation by those who do not have direct knowledge of the issue.

Once there has been the opportunity for the facts on all sides to be posted, the thread will be locked. It will remain in the database and will be available for review by those who are researching the topic, vendor or member.

The Forum is not in a position to monitor transactions or to determine the “true facts” in most disputes. Upon request, however, the Forum will try to intervene and mediate a settlement suitable to all parties in a dispute. When issues are resolved in the matter, it will be posted to the original dispute thread so it becomes part of the searchable record. We believe that is a more useful record of performance for potential customers than would be an eBay-style rating system.

As has been our past practice, members or vendors who show a pattern of unresolved issues will be removed from Corvetteforum.com.

I'll lock this thread until I have the response of Corvette Masters available to post.

savewave

Forum rules allow each side in a dispute to post a factual account of the dispute. There often is two sides to a story. Gary Steffens of Corvette America isn't registered, so I told him I would post it on his behalf:

-------------- Original message --------------
From: CorvetteMasters@cs.com
This is a response to the many vicious attacks on my good reputation and the excellent reputation of Corvette City in Denver Colorado by Charles "Chuck" Wilkins, of Albuquerque New Mexico. I thank Corvette Forum for their concerns over this incident. Mr. Wilkins has been relentlessly attacking me on 3 different forums via the internet. This will be the factual story of what has occurred between myself (Corvette City) and Mr. Wilkins.

In Oct of 2005, I received a call from Mr. Charles Wilkins from Albuquerque N.M. regardings the wide fenders we sell. He stated he was building a mid-year coupe and liked our fenders and wondered if we installed them as well. I advised him "we do" and he asked the price of the fenders, for a set of four for his 1965 Corvette. I gave him the price for the fenders and he said he would get back in touch.

In June of 2006, I received another call from Mr. Wilkins. He asked for a quote over the phone on what we would charge for my flares (set of 4), a complete paint job, and installation of a roll bar in his Corvette. I estimated between $20,000.00 to $22,000.00. Of course I had not seen his Corvette, so that was just a general estimate based on very limited information. I advised Mr. Wilkins that we require
a 50% deposit up front on large projects. He said he would save up the money and bring $10,000.00 cash when he was ready to start the job.

There were several phone contacts back and forth from myself and Mr. Wilkins between our initial conversations and when he eventually brought the car. The calls were mainly to get an idea when we might expect doing his project, as we are usually very busy. When it looked like we had an opening in our body shop, I would call Mr. Wilkins to see if he was ready to bring the car.

Fast forward several months. I checked with Mr. Wilkins a couple of times and he stated he has been waiting for a set of wheels to arrive that have been on order for over 6 months. When they arrived, he would bring in the car.

I received a call from Mr Wilkins on either tuesday (March 27) or wednesday (March 28) stating he was going to bring his Corvette to our shop to have the work done. I was a little concerned that he might have trouble getting to Denver because there were predictions of an impending snow storm. He stated he was going to bring the car in on thursday (March 29th). I advised him I had a trip planned, and did not know for sure if I would be here to meet him. I told him I was leaving to attend a Vintage race in Hallet Oklahoma, then I would be gone for the entire week to travel to Detroit, Chicago, Indiana, Iowa and Nebraska. I had stops to make in each of these states, and had to bring a 1960 Vette back to Denver from Chicago. If I was not there when he arrived, just talk to Scott, my second in command. As it turned out I delayed my departure until friday, so I could meet with Mr. Wilkins, and partly because of the snow storm that was in Denver, thursday morning.

Mr. Wilkins called at 6:00 am on thursday (March 29th) to advise me he was leaving Albuquerque for Denver. I was still a little skeptical because it had started to snow here, and predictions were not good.

My son stopped by at 9:00 am to pick up some tools for his trip to race in Hallett Oklahoma. It was starting to snow fairly heavily by then. I told him I had a customer coming in that afternoon, so I might leave Denver that evening or friday morning depending on the weather.

As it turned out the major snow storm predicted, did not happen, We received only an inch or so that morning.

Mr. Wilkins arrived at roughly 1:30 pm, thursday. I was there to meet him in person for the first time. My employees helped unload his Corvette, and we pushed it into our body shop half of our building. We gave Mr. Wilkins a tour of our 16,000 square shop, show him many of the restorations and custom projects we were working on.
This tour included the body shop half as well as the mechanical shop half of my building. He talked with Bill, my body shop manager, in detail about what he wanted to do to his Corvette. He also talked to Bill about removing his oil pan to check for any debris in the pan, left over from the Chevrolet engine assembly plant. Bill commented that he once purchased a Chevrolet crate motor and found a sawdust like residue in the oil pan. As a side note, I had a customer buy a new GM LT-4 crate engine and we had to swap oil pans to fit the chassis he was using. We found almost a thimble full of boring chips in the bottom of the pan, so we now check all new crate engines prior to use. We then proceeded to my office/showroom to talk about his project. He advised me he had talked to Bill on what needed to be done, but he would E mail me a detailed list. The list turned out to be a major change from installing our fenders, installing a roll bar and doing a paint job! I would include the list in this response, but suffice to say the additions would require months of labor in addition to the initial work requested.

Mr.Wilkins stated he would like to have the car back in "two months" so he had time to finish the rest of the car. This should have been my first warning sign! He planned to attend the Black Hills Corvette event in July. The initial work alone could not have been completed in two months even if I had no other Corvettes to work on! Fortunately, because of our reputation, we are doing 12 complete frame off restorations, as well as our normal day to day service work. I figured once I returned from my trip, provided Mr Wilkins with his revised estimate, he would understand just how much work we would be undertaking. I probably should have spent more time with Mr. Wilkins but I was still anxious to leave on my road trip, and he still had to drive back to Albuquerque thursday afternoon and into the night. It is about a six and one half hour drive.

He started to leave and I commented about our 1/2 down deposit that we require. Mr. Wilkins acted surprised, as though he never was told there was a deposit required. I stated I had told him that over a year ago in one of our phone conversations. He then stated he guessed he could pay the "$ 8000.00 deposit".
I thought to myself, $8000.00 isn't exactly 1/2 of the $20 to $22K I initially quoted
Mr Wilkins, but perhaps that was all he could afford to give us at the moment.
He attempted to pay the deposit with a credit card. It was declined twice. He then called is wife only to find out it was a debit card with a daily charge limit of $2500.00.
He stated he would mail us a check for the balance of the $8000.00 (which we never received). I know all the the details may seem very trivial but given how the details are twisted in Mr. Wilkins rendition, I feel it is very important to be very specific!
I guess that is the former police officer in me.

Mr. Wilkins then leaves for Albuquerque, and I finish loading and preparing for my departure for the week.

On Friday morning, the 30th, Mr. Wilkins called, just prior to my departure, and stated he was E mailing the list of work he wanted an estimate to complete. This was the work over and above the work discussed a year ago. I stated I would work on the estimate when I returned from my week long trip. He asked when we could get started working on his car. I stated we could start "right away" meaning as soon as I returned, completed his estimate, received an approval on the additional work, gave him a more definitive (and realistic) time of completion. Mr. Wilkins obviously thought the car would be started that day! SORRY! Not without an estimate and an approval (just the way the insurance companies work, did I mention Mr. Wilkins is an insurance agent?)! I also mentioned that when we spoke over a year ago, my initial estimate was between $22 and $22K. I asked how he thought his $8000.00 deposit was one half of that amount. He commented, "you are probably right, I do seem to remember you mentioned a $10,000.00 deposit, I guess the $16,000.00 estimate was from some shop in Albuquerque". We left the conversation at that.

I left on my trip and my employees carried on their busy activities at the shop! Mr. Wilkins called the shop numerous time to see if work had begun on his Corvette, and asked if we had received his check yet. Scott advised him work had not started, and we had not recieved his deposit check. In phone calls to the shop, while on my trip, Scott stated that Mr. Wilkins seemed to be getting irritated with the lack of progress on his car and that he didn't believe we hadn't received his deposit check.
I told Scott not to worry about it, I would deal with it when I returned.

I was gone from 9:00 am friday, March 30th, to thursday, May 6th at 4:30 pm.
I had just driven 3500 miles, I unloaded the 60 Vette from Chicago, parked my rig, and headed home for some rest. I came in Friday morning to attend to business, catch up on progress of all the work being done, return phone calls, run some various errands, etc. I finally had a chance to read Mr. Wilkins E mail with all of the additional work he wanted done to his Corvette. I called the fiberglass shop and advised them to prepare a set of 4 fenders for Mr. Wilkins Corvette. They were done the following monday afternoon (we picked them up tuesday morning). That same monday ( April 9th) I received an E mail from Mr. Wilkins stating he just wanted "a quote on the roll bar and just buying the fenders". He also wanted an estimate of a start and a completion date for the additional major list he E mailed. He also attached photo showing an envelope he had returned to him from the post office. This was supposedly the balance of deposit he had mailed to us. He claimed he "googled" our address, and was given an incorrect address. That is entirely possible, and I don't fault him for that, however he had my business card as well as his initial copy of an invioce with our correct address on them. I was beginning to get a feeling that Mr. Wilkins was an impatient individual and ready to change his mind about what he wanted done.

On tuesday morning, April 10th, I received an E mail from a friend stating he had seen a posting on one of the Corvette Forums he reads, and that person was asking for anyone "out there who had any bad experiences with Corvette City". Right there was the first RED FLAG this was not going to be a pleasant experience. Mr. Wilkins wasn't interested in receiving anything but negative responses. On wednesday morning at 7:00 am I recieved a call from Mr. Wilkins stating he was on his way to pick up his car. I acknowledged that was fine and we would see him when he arrived.

I was somewhat relieved knowing the burden had been lifted from our shoulders. I surmised that he would take approximately 6 or 7 hours to get here from Albuquerque, perhaps slightly longer given "rush hour" traffic in Colorado Springs and Denver.

I had a dental appointment at 3:00 pm so I left instructions with my employees to watch for Mr. Wilkins, and to help him load his car when he arrived. I left at 2:15 to reach the dentist office on time. My body shop employees all come to work at 6:00 am and like to leave at 3:00 pm (to pick their kids up from school). I told them, if Mr. Wilkins had not arrived before they had to leave, to blow the dust off his car, and roll it outside in our parking lot, and lock the large overhead door. I told them to leave our smaller office door open so he could retrieve his seats. The fenders were there for him to inspect as well. I lock my showroom door when I leave because everyone comes into our shop by the small shop door marked "Corvette City" any way, and it is the closest to our parking lot. Mr. Wilkins had a complete tour of our building when he dropped off the car, so he knew the exact layout!

Mr. Wilkins arrived sometime between 3:00 and 3:15 pm, as Scott looked out of our front shop door to see Mr. Wilkins loading his Corvette. It appeared that Mr. Wilkins made no attempt to contact any of my employees to help him load his Corvette. Scott and two other employees were right in the middle of trying to set an engine into a 58 Vette, and they were having trouble getting the trans to slide into the clutch splines. The 3 of them continued the installation for another 15 minutes and finally got the motor aligned and dropped onto the engine mounts. At 3:30 pm, Scott went outside to see if Mr. Wilkins needed any help, only to see him driving away. He had loaded his Car, picked up his seats and left without contacting anyone! His version would have you believe we were cowering behind locked doors, afraid to confront him!
He also contends he yelled at the top of his lungs in an attempt to get someones attention. Three employees on our mechanical shop heard nothing!!! Our building walls are concrete filled cinder block, and you cannot hear the body shop employees at all when they are using air tools. On the other hand Mr. Wilkins had merely to walk in our small shop door clearly marked Corvette City, or to call us on his cell phone, he did neither!

At this point I thought the complete incident was over, other than to return Mr. Wilkins $2500.00 credit card deposit. I initially was going to send Mr. Wilkins a refund by check. I did ask if he wanted to purchase the fenders I specifically paid to have made for him. He responded by stating he had put a dispute on the credit card charges, and he would drop the dispute "after my check cleared". After that comment I decided not to confuse any issues with a refund check, but to let the credit card dispute stand!

I thought the entire incident was over until I received an E mail from my buddy showing me three forums that Mr. Wilkins was using to "trash" our good reputation.
I was amazed at how he twists the facts to get people to believe him.
He insinuates or implies that we "splashed something, such as paint stripper, on his suspension and frame". He insinuates he is going to "have to have his engine checked out by the local Chevrolet dealer, to be sure we didn't sabotage his engine"
He insinuates that we left his car outside for days so the thieves could pick it over!
The real fact is, we did none of what he "implied" we did. He is very smart not to actually come out and "accuse" us, or my attorney would have field day! Instead he carefully chose his words, and twists the facts to achieve his goals. I'm shocked to see so many people have taken his side, having heard only one side of the story. Then again there are those who believe the earth is flat and the holocaust never happened!

He did have a total of 3 respondents claim to have had a bad experience with with Corvette City. The first one claimed to have waited months for parts he ordered. He said he was from Ocala Florida. I have vacationed in Ocala, and I sure think I would have remembered shipping parts to Ocala, but I don't recall having ever shipped to Ocala. He said I shipped In a box, with an Eckler's receipt for the part, why didn't he just buy it from Ecklers, perhaps they won't sell to him? In any case he stated it was several years ago, I still don't believe we ever had any dealings. We had our entire building collapse in the blizzard of March, 2003, crushing 31 corvettes. If It was during that time period, all bets are off!

The second complaint was from a fellow in Washington State who stated it took "two months" to get his fender order. It wasn't quite two months, but we indeed ship late because the fiberglass shop that makes our fenders, had a huge contract order to fill, and they flat refused to fill my one set of fenders order until their large order was filled. I am sorry for that delay but it was out of my control.

The third complaint is probably the most interesting. It happens to be from a fellow in Canada who purchased our fenders and was so thrilled with them, he has a huge web site showing the build of his 67 Red Corvette Coupe from start to finish. A very admirable web site for sure! So much so, he decided he should get a referral fee for every set of fenders he was asked about. He decided $200.00 a set was a fair price for the referrals. I thought that sounded a little bit like extortion, but I replied that I might consider $150.00 for a set of 4 if the person ordering specifically mentioned he heard about me from the fellow in Canada. Two people finally did purchase fenders that stated they had seen my fenders on his web site, but the more I thought about it, if he wants to make $150.00 per set of fenders, (just about 1/2 of my profit) he should purchase in quantity, become a stocking dealer, and do the boxing and shipping himself. So now he has taken the opportunity to chime in, never telling anyone what the true nature of his complaint is. Now Mr. Wilkins is trying to go into business with the Canadian to copy my fenders so they can steal the thriving business of making about 6 to 10 sets of fenders per year from me!

Mr Wilkins has chosen to attack my customers and friends who have recently joined the forums to specifically rebutt his malicious diatribe. Yes in fact, they have recently joined for the specific purpose of responding to his posts, it doesn't make them liars as he contends. I don't know too many people willing to take time out in there busy lives just to respond to a forum where they are not directly affected! But they are more than willing, knowing me personally, but better yet knowing I would never do what Mr. Wilkins has implied.

Having seen the work done to this Corvette prior to arriving at my shop, I am not surprised at the paint flaking off. I suspect poor preparation of the frame prior to powder coating is the culprit. I have tried to remove powdercoating from a set of wheels I purchased. I was unable to do so with any Chemical I tried. I finally had to have them reblasted. My body shop employees were doing no chemical stripping while I was away, and Mr. Wilkins Corvette was parked several spaces away from where work was being performed.

Lastly, I have been in contact with people I know in Albuquerque, who are heavily involved in the Corvette community. They commented they are not surprised by Mr. Wilkins actions, they didn't believe any one in Albuquerque, who knew Mr. Wilkins, was willing to do any work for him!

One final note, I don't believe that forums should be used to purposely try to trash someone. I do believe in free speech, but forums should have some responsibility
to monitor the actions of people such as Mr. Wilkins, and possibly notify persons being accused or attacked. I don't monitor or read forums, I don't have the time. But, I thank my friend who did read the postings, and let me know of Mr. Wilkins actions.

Respectfully submitted,
Gary Steffens
Corvette City, Denver, Colorado