mwestc5

I really dislike posting negative stuff and this is the 1st time I'm doing it on a forum. This issue goes back to this past Aug. Let me preface I am no mechanic. I do my own brakes and routine fluids and a few other minor things and stuff I can easily get to that don't require removing more then 5 things.
My car is an 03 Z06, primarily a track day car but it's street legal and I drive it to the track.

Last Aug I have a problem at the track (New Jersey Motor Sports Park)
After running around and having all the Vette mavens there check it out, it's decided it's the Clutch. The guy who normally works on my car is gone for 2 weeks. And I have a few more track dates coming up before he gets back I rushed to get the clutch done asap. ECS is only about 30 minutes from me and 15 from my son's home.

I speak with Chris at ECS. Tell him my story and also let him know if at all possible can this be done in time to make my next track date. He says not sure but they'll certainly try. Next day I drive it over to ECS. At normal speeds it shifts OK, but on track at high speed it would get locked in whatever gear I was in. On the drive to ECS another issue pops up. Broken front shock. Once I'm there I ask Chris if they can remove both front shocks and overnight them to a shop in Tx. He says Yes. The shop in Tx. says they will try and rebuild both shocks within a day of receiving them-but 2 at most and they'd overnight back to ECS.
Surprisingly all goes perfectly. I get the car back and a few days later I'm off to Watkins Glen. But 1/2 way into my 2nd track day the car has issues shifting. I immediately think Clutch. But after a few more Vette mavens go over my car they are saying trans. I had a trans installed exactly 1 year prior by RKT in Md. I call Rick, he says get the car to me. I'm able to drive the car home the 250 miles from The Glen using 2nd-4th & 6th. I have no odd numbered gears. Then I have it shipped to RKT.

Rick at RKT calls me and 1st thing he says to me, who worked on my car after him, who did the clutch? He says whomever did it drained the trans fluid and did not replace it. He then sends me a few videos showing him tilting the trans and draining the remaining fluid--less then a qt.

Not being a mechanic, I ask is it possible for me to drive the 250 miles to The Glen and then a day and a 1/2 on the track with virtually no fluid. He says there was just enough to allow me to go that distance.
I need another new trans. I spent $6000 with RKT a year ago. Now it will cost an additional $5600, he gave me a $400 break.

I call Chris and tell him what happened. He says no way it was them because they don't drain trans fluid when doing clutches. I call Rick back and ask if this is possible. he says Yes with a normal set up it's possible to lose very little fluid. But, because I have a trans cooler and the way it's installed he says it's impossible to not lose most of the fluid.

I call Chris back and speak with him and ask is not possible your guy drained the fluid then got called away for something or went on a break or got distracted and forgot to replace the fluid. He's emphatic--No Way. I go on with Chris saying something along the lines about everyone tries to be perfect but sometimes crap happens-when crap happens reputable companies step up and do the right thing. I go on to mention I own a service business too and we try and be perfect and satisfy everyone. Our jobs cost typically around $100. Over the years we've had a few customers' complain we screwed up something else while doing this $100 job and it costs $500 or $1000 to repair.
To be honest the few times this happened I really really believed we had nothing to do with it. But I said screw it-not worth the hassle. I just wrote them a check for the $500 or $1000 and sucked it up, cost of doing business.

I was a not asking ECS to pay the entire $5600 but I figured $2500 or so would be fair. I just paid them over $4k for a clutch and now $5600 for a trans. Chris has no interest in doing anything. We go back and forth for awhile. Unfortunately I went back & forth with Chris too long-because I called Visa to dispute the charge. But I learned you have 2 billing cycles to dispute a charge. I went well beyond this-because I really believed Chris would step up and resolve this amicably.

Also I had a remote clutch bleeder installed by RKT a year ago with the new trans, but I see a charge for a remote bleeder on the ECS bill. I call Rick who still has my car about the bleeder. He says it's the one he installed last year. I ask how do you know it's yours. He says he has them custom made for him and it's his bleeder. I ask, I guess no need to replace bleeder when replacing clutch and he says obviously not.

I contact Chris about the bleeder, 1st he says they installed it--then I tell him what Rick said. Then he says he'll look into it and give me a refund--never received anything.

We still go round and round with this-I considered going to court but I'm no mechanic and have no way to really defend my case.
Eventually after going back and forth Chris asks if I'll meet with him-I do and he offers to give me a credit towards future work and I think he said around $2k--I was kind of surprised and caught off guard. I meekly say OK, figuring I have no other options.
But once I leave there I'm thinking I have no trust or confidence in these guys why would I ever bring my car back to ECS. I'm pissed but figure I'm screwed.

A while later I get contacted by the original owner of my car, he's the guy who set it up for the track and did a lot of the work himself. I'm the 3rd owner--guy I bought it from owned a short time and never tracked it. The original owner saw a picture of my car on line and contacted me telling me he thinks my car was his--and it was his car.
From all the receipts and notes that came with the car-and they are very very detailed-I knew he installed the trans cooler, and I ask him was he the guy-he says yes. I tell him my story and he immediately says BS, these guys are Full Of S--T. He says the way the trans cooler is installed and they way the lines are installed there's no way most of the fluid cannot be drained. He basically repeats what Rick had told me. I ask him, if I take this to court would you come up from Va to NJ to testify--he says absolutely, just tell me when.

My car right now is at my track prep shop getting a good going over getting ready for my 1st track event next week. I call the guy that has my car now and ask him to take a look at my trans set up and ask if the clutch can be replaced without draining trans fluid. He calls me back and says No, not the way the trans cooler is installed. I ask him, would he be willing to go to court on my behalf. he says Yes.

Now I have much more confidence in going to court, it's still a crap shoot but with the guy who set the car up & with another expert and with RKT's videos and emails I feel I've got a pretty good shot in court with these guys on my side.

I emailed Chris at ECS last week letting him know of my intentions to go to court. Honestly I was hoping to hear from him to work out a compromise but have not heard anything back.

I look at it as in court I've got a better then even chance to recover the whole $5600 for the trans. It will be all or nothing--right now I've got nothing so I have nothing to lose in court.

I just had to get this off my chest.

jglassmaker

I've dealt with companies before that are "reputable" and "quality" and even "excellent customer service" only to be completely screwed over like this.

Take them to court, make them be honest, and tell everyone the truth.

Somebody - somewhere - plain and simple - screwed up. People need to own up to their mistakes.

bikeriderga

Hate hearing of your experience and hope you get everything working correctly.

If you do prove your case, ECS is going to lose at lot more than 5600.00 in business lost and unbelievably bad publicity.

To be fair, we are only hearing one side of the story (not impugning your character so don't take it that way), but do keep us apprised of the outcome.

4XLR8N

Man, I've been down this road a time or two. However, I have an ace up my sleeve...I was an ASE certified master tech for 15 years. Been a long time since I turned wrenches for a paycheck, but I can tell BS when I hear it. Once I start explaining to THEM how things should have been done, they usually realize their typical BS isn't gonna make it go away.

Sorry brother for the situation you are in. Damn frustrating. I hope it all works out for you.

neutron82

laurent_zo6

You have enough evidence to take the shop to court. You can go to small court to avoid hiring an attorney. Once they get a judgment against them it will go on their better business bureau rating. You should also ask for reasonable damage for the aggravation.

Rick at RKT Performance is the best. I won't let anyone else touch my Z06.

ZO6 cracker

I was going to post on the same line about losing businesss. That is a shame about this. I had my Z06 there a few years ago for headers and full tune. Nothing extreme like yours and Chris did a great job taking care of me. But this could hurt there business they work on a lot of Corvettes. Hope you get it straightened out.

ls777z

You drove it from the shop. You then drove it to a racetrack. You then raced it for a day and a half and then you had a problem. I'm not saying you don't have a case but I think its going to an uphill battle. Could the damage have been minimized by you checking the fluid in YOUR car after you picked it up and before racing it?
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Mickeyrx70

JR-01

This^
After racing it for a day and a half, you will lose the case.

runner140*

I'm sure ECS will defend the above well. A good attorney could win the case and hit you with ALL costs. Like court costs, attorney's fees and more.

Vetteman Jack

Moved to Transactions Feedback.

DOUG @ ECS

Even though there is no possible way you drove the car to and from two track events, Chris was willing to do something for you simply because as you said sometimes right or wrong you do what it takes to make people happy.

We truly do believe that what your claiming is impossible, a trans would never live through multiple track days without fluid and 1000 street miles, yet Chris still offered to help anyway.

We have so many transmissions here that would have simply given you one, $6000 for a transmission seems a little inflated to say the least.

Just because another shop, who coincidentally is the one who would have to warranty it blames us instead that does not necessarily make it correct.

Chris corresponded last regarding a credit here when you stopped in, simply trying to work with you and do the right thing. It's my understanding that is what you two agreed upon, am I wrong?

ECS offered you a credit for a part we truly feel we are not responsible for, if you wish to go to court you have one hell of an uphill battle and naturally at that point our offer is off the table.

Regardless, we are sorry you did not feel you had a good experience here, we sincerely try our best to do so.

mwestc5

Doug
I appreciate you chiming in here.
I'll try and respond as succinctly as I can to your comments.

As I said I am no mechanic. The big question to me was, is it possible to have driven as much as I did(and it was less then 1000 miles) with appox 1 qt. of fluid. And I had no idea. Speaking with RKT he said there was about a qt left and that qt was enough to keep some lubrication in there that did allow me to drive as many miles as I did before it crapped out.

The real question is not about how far I drove after the clutch install.
It's where did the fluid go?
How did the car lose that much fluid?

There were absolutely no signs of any leaks.
No visible leaks anywhere
None in my garage
None on the under carriage
None in my garage space at the track
There was no outward damage to the trans
No crack in the trans
No signs of leaks at any of the fittings/connections
None on the flat bed that took the car to RKT

The big question here is when/where was the fluid lost?
Logically you come to 1 conclusion.

The only guys working on my car immediately before this happened was ECS. The question became can the clutch be removed without loss of fluid. As I learned with a stock clutch set up with out my trans cooler-YES. With my trans cooler set up-NO.
This is the real question.

Not until I was contacted out of the blue by the original owner-the guy who set the car up did I feel more confident that the fluid loss happened at ECS. He was 100% adamant that no way could my clutch be replaced without draining most of the fluid. He confirmed what RKT said as well as the guy who maintains the car for me.
I also had the car at a Chevy dealer that has a tech who specializes in C5's. He gives tech advise on C5's.
Had the car on his lift. He showed me how he does a clutch job with virtually no fluid loss--but on mine he said it's not possible due to the trans cooler.

After going back & forth with Chris he eventually called and asked to meet with me. Yes as I said he offered a credit towards future work, I think it was around $2k. I was hoping for a cash settlement-I was caught off guard by the offer and I felt uncomfortable speaking about this in the front of the office with everyone around including customers. So, I just said OK & left. I was not even sure what I said OK to.

Also I was pissed for being charged for a REMOTE CLUTCH BLEEDER that I already had and was barely a year old. When I brought it up to Chris he kind of dodged around it.
So, what you think if you were charged for a part you already had and did not need replacing & was not replaced.
Seems a bit shady does it not?

Difficult to go forward with confidence when something like that happens. That ticked me
off as much or more then the whole fluid-trans debacle. To me that meant quite a lot towards credibility. The bleeder was not a case of fluid/no fluid. I was flat out charged for a part I did not need and was not even installed. Legally speaking that may be considered fraud.

Your comment re: $6000 transmission.
Everyone charges what they charge.
As a consumer you decide if you want to pay the for the service your buying.
That choice was mine same as coming to ECS for a $4000 clutch.

You can go to RKT's website and see what they charge for their performance transmissions. So, whether I decided to pay $6000 less a $400 discount is my decision and no one elses.

Regarding court, well that's a very last resort. As of now I've taken no action in that direction. Even if I go to court and lose I'm no worse off then I am now. I've got nothing to lose except court costs and over-night expenses for the the guy who built the car who said he'd testify in court. But in court I'd be seeking the $5400 I paid to replace the trans. If I win I'd get the $5400 plus court costs. I really have more to gain then lose. I emailed Chris let him know of my intentions re: court and left the door open for him to respond. Your response on this forum is the 1st I've heard from ECS. As I mentioned I'm still open to compromising but as of now I have a difficult time accepting a credit.

CTYANK2

mwestc5

*****
Working on an agreement that will be acceptable to both of us.
Once the agreement is reached I'll update my posts.

And to clarify, I was never pissed at the outcome of the work. As a matter of fact I posted a very positive experience on this forum.
They got me in quickly handled a few other issues in a timely way and I was happy with the clutch.

Not till the trans problem happened did it get a bit crazy. As I told ECS, we all try and be perfect but we're human and can't be perfect all the time. But it's how we handle the imperfect times that separates the OK companies from the really good companies.

I'm in a service business too and we're not always perfect. Any time an issue comes up we do our absolute best to make it right, And if the customer is not happy --it's Free no if's and's or buts.
Our typical repair is around $100. Bit in a few cases where we made something worse and unable to repair to the customer's satisfaction I've handed them a check for the full replacement.
One was a $95 repair that cost me $1000 and more recently a $65 repair that cost me $500.

We have so few of these come up and it's just a cost of doing business. So if every few years after thousands of jobs we run into something like this I handle it as quickly as possible and everyone leaves happy. That's just the way I run my business and expect the same from businesses I deal with.

Once everything is finalize with ECS I'll update the post.

CorvetteKilla

Im a little confused on why you are blaming all of this on ECS and not blaming any on the other company.. Whatever there name is who knows never heard of them. Your believing the company that has no rep compared to probably the most known corvette company there is.

Can I ask why you are only believing the other company?

Not to mention you should not ask people to rush job your car this is what happens.

Letting two different shops work on your car is not a smart idea either.

You should not post your beef with a company for leverage makes you look like a douche bag when what you are claiming sounds insane, especially with no PROOF that they did anything when you took your car to two different places!

Messed up bro.

CorvetteKilla

So he offers you a settlement, You AGREE. THEN YOU COME ONLINE AND POST ALL THIS?

You state:

After going back & forth with Chris he eventually called and asked to meet with me. Yes as I said he offered a credit towards future work, I think it was around $2k. I was hoping for a cash settlement-I was caught off guard by the offer and I felt uncomfortable speaking about this in the front of the office with everyone around including customers.

**So, I just said OK & left. I was not even sure what I said OK to.**

==

You are the definition of a keyboard warrior, to scared to say something to someone trying to make it right and then come on here and bash them hard. Jacked up on so many levels.

vettebuyer6369

Vendor has responded and it appears they are working with the complainant.

If either the vendor or the OP has an actual resolution to this dispute, they can contact me and it will be posted.

Thread will be closed per TF rules. Nothing but third party commentary at this time.

vettebuyer6369