My DynoTech Engineering Experience-(merged)
11-28-2004, 07:15 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My DynoTech Engineering Experience-part A
*****Moderators***********Please DO NOT Lock this thread. This IS NOT a resolution dispute. All info included here are facts that should be known and available to this community. The Integrity and Ethics of this Forum and, by association, it's Vendors are at stake. I would confer with Troy Roberts before I locked down this thread.
I have included companion Threads "B"and"C" with the Emails from this saga. They are Linked at the bottom of the pages.
In the spring of 2004 I emailed DynoTech Eng. about a "Cage Special" they had. I additionally inquired about installation of 4.10 gears, in a StageIIX Differential, and an Exedy Twin Disk Clutch. I was quoted about $8000 and an install time of about one week. My existing clutch was fine -I wanted to get the car ready for One Lap in 2005 - thinking ahead.
On the weekend of April 16 -18, 2004 I dropped off the car for the installs- clutch, cage and StageIIX Diff with 4.10s.
The following Monday, April 19, I'm informed of a mistake in parts ordering and a delay in car delivery date - it will now be two and a half weeks.
My car dynoed at 442 RWHP/400 RWTQ - pre tune and gears.
On May 5 Phil informs me that he does not have a 4.10 gearset for my diff buildup!! Would I like a different ratio??
After some help from fellow CorvetteForum members I was able to obtain a new 4.10 gearset and had it shipped directly to DynoTech.
I finally was able to pick the car up on the evening of May 27 - in time to drive to BG for the CF event at the museum.
Drove down with no problems but the clutch seemed to chatter a little and "grabbed" a bit - I thought it was probably something I would get used to.
On Saturday evening we drove to the Go Kart races sponsored by Troy - alot of fun but it rained out. I had parked on an incline in the parking lot with the nose of the car downhill. In reverse and on a grade I backed out and drove to the 1st light. The clutch was hanging - it would not completely disengage! It ground as I put it in first gear.
JLSRU75, my best friend and fellow Forum member, looked at me with a "fingernail on the chalkboard expression" and said "That's not good" ( a man of few words). The only thing we could think of as being different was the incline and reverse gear. Of course anytime you are on an incline the clutch has to be eased out more than normal. I had Phil Rickard's cell number so I called him and explained the situation. He stated that I'd slipped the clutch and he couldn't say how it would do. It was my fault according to him. JLSRU75 said "It's a racing clutch and you need to find flat ground to run it on?"
Over the next several days it became progressively worse with increasing vibration and resulting in a reduction of power (knock sensors). It also began to jump out of gear.
I emailed Phil and his response was basically these clutches do not act like that unless abused by the owner. He said I should bring it in - he would not pick it up. It was vibrating and grabbing so severely I couldn't drive it. JLSRU75 and I trailered it to Dynotech, from Cincinnati, the next weekend. It rained all the way up to DynoTech!
I had to leave it in the DynoTech lot as Phil was busy and wouldn't meet us to receive the Vette.
At this point I was flabbergasted that Phil had no interest in trying to determine the cause of the failure! This is an expensive clutch and it had not been powershifted, dumped or abused in any way - period. I was dumbfounded that a Forum Vendor would proceed in this manner. I expressed this in Emails ( please see emails in part "B" thread) to no avail.
The following Monday June 14 I received an email with pics from Phil showing the burnt clutch disks etc. He stated that it was obviously abused and that it should be replaced. It was not DynoTech's or Exedy's fault. How did I want to proceed?
Phil completely refused all and any responsibilty in this matter. I explained again that the clutch was not abused and if I was him I'd want to know the true cause of the failure!! ( please see June 19 - 20 emails). Phil would not budge on this failure.
The following day he replied that he/ Dynotech Engineering and Exedy had decided to split the costs out of generosity to the customer. However, I would be charged $324!!
Having gotten no where with DynoTech I called Bruce Rueter of Exedy. He explained that Exedy was a Quality performance unit that underwent stringent bench testing. Each unit is tested by a Tech before it is shipped. I explained that my main concern was that no problem had been identified. Phil Rickard had stated that the 2nd install would be exactly as the 1st - as they had done nothing wrong. How would we prevent this from happening again? Bruce said that "Corvette People" expect quality when they pay for it. That a $2100 clutch should not be installed without replacing certain items. He said he reviewed this with Phil Rickard. I asked if these deficiencies were to be corrected and he said yes, I could be assured that they would.
I refused to pay the $324 on principle. Bruce Rueter said it would be taken care of between Exedy and DynoTech Engineering.
At this point I was completely fed up with DynoTech Eng. and did not discuss my car further with them until it was completed.
On June 29 I recieved an email from Phil Rickard stating that they had a replacement clutch and they would work my car into their schedule.
On July 6 I recieved an Email from Phil stating my car was complete and I owed $324.
I spoke with Bruce Reuter again! My July 7 email states this to Phil and my refusal to pay his $324. I told him I wouldn't negotiate this and I'd see him and his techs in court. Not a bright move/statement on my part as it's in Indiana and a long drive from Ohio. I would have needed multiple Attorneys etc. Too costly to pursue.
Phil basically said sue me ...I'll throw a cover over your car. See the July 7 Email Response from Phil.
At this point, out of total frustration, I contacted a fellow forum member about his chattering Exedy Twin Disk - turns out his was Dynoed right after the install. Mine was dynoed after the install too!
He stated I might want to talk to Tom at Carolina Clutch. Nice guy!
So I call Tom at Caroline Clutch! He explained that when they are not broken in before dynoing it will glaze them and cause chattering. He said he warned all of his dealers of this. Then I explained my situation with DynoTech. Tom said he remembered my car and the pictures Phil emailed him of my car parts. He said he knew what went wrong with my car as soon as he saw the pics - THEY DIDN'T GREASE THE INPUT SHAFT!!! A twin disk setup needs to have a greased shaft so that the floater and disks can easily slide. If it isn't greased the disks will hang up - a hanging clutch. Hanging disks create heat excessive wear and failure. Tom said he told Phil Rickard that when he showed the pictures to him!!! In fact Tom said he thought about contacting me but he didn't know how to as he didn't know I was on CorvetteForum!
... commentary deleted -- savewave ...
I paid the $324 and picked up my car. The clutch has performed flawlessly - I love it. The first clutch grabbed and chattered from the start. This clutch is smoooth!
... commentary deleted -- savewave ...
I feel I owe it to all of you, who have helped me SO MUCH with my Vette, to post this thread.
joel
I have included companion Threads "B"and"C" with the Emails from this saga. They are Linked at the bottom of the pages.
In the spring of 2004 I emailed DynoTech Eng. about a "Cage Special" they had. I additionally inquired about installation of 4.10 gears, in a StageIIX Differential, and an Exedy Twin Disk Clutch. I was quoted about $8000 and an install time of about one week. My existing clutch was fine -I wanted to get the car ready for One Lap in 2005 - thinking ahead.
On the weekend of April 16 -18, 2004 I dropped off the car for the installs- clutch, cage and StageIIX Diff with 4.10s.
The following Monday, April 19, I'm informed of a mistake in parts ordering and a delay in car delivery date - it will now be two and a half weeks.
My car dynoed at 442 RWHP/400 RWTQ - pre tune and gears.
On May 5 Phil informs me that he does not have a 4.10 gearset for my diff buildup!! Would I like a different ratio??
After some help from fellow CorvetteForum members I was able to obtain a new 4.10 gearset and had it shipped directly to DynoTech.
I finally was able to pick the car up on the evening of May 27 - in time to drive to BG for the CF event at the museum.
Drove down with no problems but the clutch seemed to chatter a little and "grabbed" a bit - I thought it was probably something I would get used to.
On Saturday evening we drove to the Go Kart races sponsored by Troy - alot of fun but it rained out. I had parked on an incline in the parking lot with the nose of the car downhill. In reverse and on a grade I backed out and drove to the 1st light. The clutch was hanging - it would not completely disengage! It ground as I put it in first gear.
JLSRU75, my best friend and fellow Forum member, looked at me with a "fingernail on the chalkboard expression" and said "That's not good" ( a man of few words). The only thing we could think of as being different was the incline and reverse gear. Of course anytime you are on an incline the clutch has to be eased out more than normal. I had Phil Rickard's cell number so I called him and explained the situation. He stated that I'd slipped the clutch and he couldn't say how it would do. It was my fault according to him. JLSRU75 said "It's a racing clutch and you need to find flat ground to run it on?"
Over the next several days it became progressively worse with increasing vibration and resulting in a reduction of power (knock sensors). It also began to jump out of gear.
I emailed Phil and his response was basically these clutches do not act like that unless abused by the owner. He said I should bring it in - he would not pick it up. It was vibrating and grabbing so severely I couldn't drive it. JLSRU75 and I trailered it to Dynotech, from Cincinnati, the next weekend. It rained all the way up to DynoTech!
I had to leave it in the DynoTech lot as Phil was busy and wouldn't meet us to receive the Vette.
At this point I was flabbergasted that Phil had no interest in trying to determine the cause of the failure! This is an expensive clutch and it had not been powershifted, dumped or abused in any way - period. I was dumbfounded that a Forum Vendor would proceed in this manner. I expressed this in Emails ( please see emails in part "B" thread) to no avail.
The following Monday June 14 I received an email with pics from Phil showing the burnt clutch disks etc. He stated that it was obviously abused and that it should be replaced. It was not DynoTech's or Exedy's fault. How did I want to proceed?
Phil completely refused all and any responsibilty in this matter. I explained again that the clutch was not abused and if I was him I'd want to know the true cause of the failure!! ( please see June 19 - 20 emails). Phil would not budge on this failure.
The following day he replied that he/ Dynotech Engineering and Exedy had decided to split the costs out of generosity to the customer. However, I would be charged $324!!
Having gotten no where with DynoTech I called Bruce Rueter of Exedy. He explained that Exedy was a Quality performance unit that underwent stringent bench testing. Each unit is tested by a Tech before it is shipped. I explained that my main concern was that no problem had been identified. Phil Rickard had stated that the 2nd install would be exactly as the 1st - as they had done nothing wrong. How would we prevent this from happening again? Bruce said that "Corvette People" expect quality when they pay for it. That a $2100 clutch should not be installed without replacing certain items. He said he reviewed this with Phil Rickard. I asked if these deficiencies were to be corrected and he said yes, I could be assured that they would.
I refused to pay the $324 on principle. Bruce Rueter said it would be taken care of between Exedy and DynoTech Engineering.
At this point I was completely fed up with DynoTech Eng. and did not discuss my car further with them until it was completed.
On June 29 I recieved an email from Phil Rickard stating that they had a replacement clutch and they would work my car into their schedule.
On July 6 I recieved an Email from Phil stating my car was complete and I owed $324.
I spoke with Bruce Reuter again! My July 7 email states this to Phil and my refusal to pay his $324. I told him I wouldn't negotiate this and I'd see him and his techs in court. Not a bright move/statement on my part as it's in Indiana and a long drive from Ohio. I would have needed multiple Attorneys etc. Too costly to pursue.
Phil basically said sue me ...I'll throw a cover over your car. See the July 7 Email Response from Phil.
At this point, out of total frustration, I contacted a fellow forum member about his chattering Exedy Twin Disk - turns out his was Dynoed right after the install. Mine was dynoed after the install too!
He stated I might want to talk to Tom at Carolina Clutch. Nice guy!
So I call Tom at Caroline Clutch! He explained that when they are not broken in before dynoing it will glaze them and cause chattering. He said he warned all of his dealers of this. Then I explained my situation with DynoTech. Tom said he remembered my car and the pictures Phil emailed him of my car parts. He said he knew what went wrong with my car as soon as he saw the pics - THEY DIDN'T GREASE THE INPUT SHAFT!!! A twin disk setup needs to have a greased shaft so that the floater and disks can easily slide. If it isn't greased the disks will hang up - a hanging clutch. Hanging disks create heat excessive wear and failure. Tom said he told Phil Rickard that when he showed the pictures to him!!! In fact Tom said he thought about contacting me but he didn't know how to as he didn't know I was on CorvetteForum!
... commentary deleted -- savewave ...
I paid the $324 and picked up my car. The clutch has performed flawlessly - I love it. The first clutch grabbed and chattered from the start. This clutch is smoooth!
... commentary deleted -- savewave ...
I feel I owe it to all of you, who have helped me SO MUCH with my Vette, to post this thread.
joel
11-28-2004, 07:17 PM
#2
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My DynoTech Engineering Experience-part B
Here a the Emails I've retrieved:
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: phil@dynotech-eng.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:39 PM
Subject: Joel Koch - cage
Phil,
Just a reminder - I want the weld-in 6 pt 4130 cromoly cage. Thanks.
Joel Koch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
>
>
> > Hi Joel,
> > Yes, that is what we have on file here as well. I ordered that roll bar
> the
> > same day you scheduled your appt. 3 weeks ago and it should arrive here
> > this week from what they inform me.
> >
> > I went over/reviewed your build file and found that you're going with
our
> > Stage II-X differential. That differential has a 2 week build time due
to
> > the cryogenic processing that is done with that unit and when I told you
> of
> > a 1 week completion time last Sat., I forgot you were getting the Stage
> > II-X, so I informed you wrong regarding delivery date. I wanted to
clarify
> > that.
> >
> > Also, we baseline dynoed your car today and it made 442 RWHP/400 RWTQ.
Is
> > that about what you expected?
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> No , I expected more HP and TQ! Actually, I'm relieved it's not a
> dog...I expected 430 - 440 Hp and above 400 Tq before tuning. Are the Hp
and
> Tq SAE corrected and through the exhaust - I hope and assume?
> The cam is 0.579" 239/251 on a 106 lsa - Grand Am cam. Lobes are not
very
> radical as opposed to the Comp XERs. I think it's a good solid roadracing
> cam and a bit kinder to the valvetrain. So, I wasn't expecting superstar
> type numbers.
> I would think it's rich WOT and not a smooth AFR plot. Can you email
me
> the dyno/AFR printout at dkoch3@cinci.rr.com ( work email)?
> When should I expect it to be completed i.e pickup date??
> Thanks for the tour Saturday. Wayne and I were very impressed with it's
> order and cleanliness. I was raised in and around shops....I know dirt
and
> chaos. We were very surprised at the number of cars you have in progress.
My
> grandfather told me to work hard when you're young - so you don't have to
> later. He was right and it looks like your following his advice. Hard work
> pays off - eventually. Thanks for the prompt response.
>
> Regards,
>
> joel
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> The plots don't cross at 5252???
>
>
joel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
>
>
> > Joel,
> > It's not uncommon to observe that on the graph when power is measured at
> > the rear wheels. An engine dyno is a much better tool to measure
relative
> > HP to TQ at that RPM.
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> As I'm sure you know Tq is the measured parameter in the real world of
> dynos. Hp is derived from the measured Tq. Due to the derivation, of Hp
from
> Tq, all dyno Hp-Tq graphs cross at 5252 RPM.
> Just as light travels at 186,000 mi/sec all dynos cross at 5252.My point
> is - if they don't cross at 5252 something is seriously wrong.
> Best Regards,
> joel
>
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: my car
Phil,
Hey! When will my car be done?? While your in there can you put in an LAPD clutch bleeder??? I'll of course pay extra for this
.
Here's some info from NoGo ( LS1Tech.com guru) on the Dyno sheet and 5252:
" Congrats, the numbers look good. The cross of the plots is odd. The
roll speed calibration of the dyno could be off, or the rpm pick-up on your
vehicle, if it is going over a serial connection to the computer, could be
lagging a bit with the data. Not too uncommon."
Thanks!
joel
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:10 AM
> Subject: Corvette Progress :-)
>
>
> > Hello Joel,
> > Just wanted to drop you a line to let you know where we are with your
> > Corvette. The clutch is installed and working nicely (you'll love the
new
> > feel of this clutch-BTW) and the roll bar installation is about 1/2
> > completed.
> >
> > We have not been able to locate any 4.10 gear sets anywhere, from anyone
> > and evidently, those who do have a few sets in a stash are hoarding them
> > and not selling to anyone else.
> >
> > We had anticipated having 3 sets in here by the middle of last month,
but
> > that fell through as well and we were left hanging out to dry by a
> > distributor that *promised* us he could get us these three sets, even
> > though we couldn't find them anywhere. (we are direct w/ the
manufacturer)
> > Needless to say, we were flat out lied to and we had to cancel and
refund
> > two other appts. that were scheduled to have 4.10's installed in the
> > future. We've been scouring the internet and calling every possible
> contact
> > we have for the last week just to land us *something*, but there are non
> to
> > be had...anywhere. Every tuner that installs gears is experiencing the
> same
> > 3.90/4.10 shortage issue we are faced with.
> >
> > Luckily, we didn't disassemble your current differential because we were
> > uncertain of the 4.10 ratio availability and the skepticism we had about
> > that distributor that "claimed" they could get us what we needed,
despite
> > our knowing better. (we thought we would give them a chance anyway) We
> > re-installed your original differential and refilled it with Redline
> > synthetic lube and re-filled the trans. with synthetic lube as well.
> >
> > We also fixed a number of little things we found while under there, i.e.
> > leaking exhaust pipes, leaky welds, cut o2 sensor wires, melted wiring
> > harness tubing and connectors, o2 sensor interference with the heat
> shield,
> > etc, etc, etc.... We're very **** about the little details like that and
> > the car will be 100% correct upon return delivery. :-)
> >
> > We anticipate the completion of the car mid-next week, including the PCM
> > calibration and dyno tune, so if you have any questions, please give me
a
> > call. Have a great day!
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
> >
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
> Phil,
> Thanks for the reply. when do you expect to have 4.10s and the stage
2X
> diff for me??
> Can you install Sparco Evo seats and 6 pt harnesses while you're in
> there? IF I can have them drop shipped??
> Please send response to dkoch3@cinci.rr.com and DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com .
> Thank you.
>
> joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
>
> Also............
> If we went with 3.73s (same stge2x rear) ...how much to swap them for
the
> 4.10s - when you can get them????
>
> joel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
>
>
> > Yes, we do have the 3.73's in stock and the pricing would be the same.
If
> > you choose to go this route, than we'll waive the removal of the
> > differential again to save you some money nd get it started right away.
> :-)
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
> Okay, if go with the Stage IIX and 3.73s for now..............How much
> would you charge me to switch out the 3.73s for 4.10s, in June or July,
when
> Motive delivers on the 4.10s.
> I'll call about the Sparco serats and belts tomorrow.
>
> I'll call you tomorrow also.
>
> joel
> From: "Joel Koch" <dkoch3@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:47 PM
> Subject: FW: Tuning, parts, and installs
>
>
> Phil,
> Last nite you said you would keep my diff as a core or use it in the
> build up. You quoted me the Stage II X - priced out right (no core). See
> the enclosed attachments and email. You in fact told me I could turn
> around and sell my diff to recoup some of the costs. If you use my diff
> how much do you credit me for the Stage II X??
> Regards,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:23 PM
> Subject: Corvette Photos
>
>
> > Hi Joel,
> > Here are some photos we've taken along the way during the build-up of
your
> > Corvette that we thought you'd find interesting.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Phil Rickard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <dkoch3@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Tuning, parts, and installs
> Hi Joel,
> Yes, you indeed are correct, as we normally only sell the Stage II-X as an
> outright core because we use only new, 3-series cores for the build-up for
> added strength. If your current differential is in VERY good condition, we
> can use it if you wish and the regular core charge amount is $600, so you
> would have that amount reduced from the upgrade. If you choose to go this
> route, let me know so we can get it sent out ASAP for cryogenic treatment.
>
>
> Best regards and God bless,
> Phil Rickard
> President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Photos
> Phil,
> Thanks. Earlier you said you found some exhaust leaks....do you remember
> where they were at???
> Also when you put it on the Dyno, for the tune, can you plot the AFR for
> me. While you are at it can you do a run on each bank - left and right
> AFRs????
> Thanks again.
May 28 2004
Hi Joel,
We hope you made it back safely. Just wanted to drop you a calibration
tip for when you switch your PCM back over to closed loop. After you make
the switch, add fuel to the base cal. by adding IFR to the given cell to
trim the fueling where the o2 sensors tell you it is in relation to stoich.
Remember to let it be a little lean at idle (about +1% to +3%) and
about -3% to -5% everywhere else through the curve so that the engine is
crisp off idle and clean throughout the fueling curve. Leave your VE tables
where they are and trim w/ the IFR to satisfy the engine and you'll find
that your fuel mileage will return and the overall drivability will be MUCH
more linear and smooth. Have a good weekend and thank you again for your
business! :-)
Best regards and God bless,
Phil Rickard
President
Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: Exedy Clutch
Phil,
Hi. Last nite the car jumped out of 1st gear rolling away from a
light - it's never done that! I checked the hyd. clutch resevoir and it's
very low - I'll add GM fluid.
joel koch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> The clutch fluid level was topped off w/ GM fluid before the car left here
> on that Thursday, as is any car's system before it's complete and
> delivered.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 9:01 AM
Subject: Fw: Exedy Clutch
Phil,
Hi. I forgot to include that it's starting to vibrate above 3800 RPM.
Vibrating enouh that it is reducing power output. I'm not going to add
fluid...I'll call you later today.
joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> I've never heard of a clutch that "starts" to vibrate after mileage, as
> they either do right away when they are installed (which that one didn't)
> or they don't at all. We've successfully sold and installed over 21 of
> these units to be used in HP applications and none of them has ever had a
> problem at all to our knowledge, so I'm curious to know why this one just
> started to, espeacially after it left here operating flawlessly.
>
> We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.
>
> Give me a call when you get a chance and we'll go from there. Have a good
> night.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil Rickard
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> Bring it over and we'll perform an inspection on the terms outlined in my
> last email to determine the problem. I'm curious to know why the clutch
> fluid was low when you checked it. Is there anything leaking under the car
> that is coming from the bellhosing area? Possibly a blown/leaking slave
> cylinder? Trying to find possible causes before we get a chance to look at
> it.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:36 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch Diagnosis
> Hi Phil,
> Thanks for bringing my car inside. Nothing very surprising in the
> photos - that's why we trailered the car Saturday.
>
> Since my first email concerning this clutch failure you have assumed an
> adverserial position. I really don't understand you're attitude concerning
> this matter?
>
> I'm a customer that spent nearly $8000 for parts and labor performed by
> your shop. As you know your labor rates are in the premium range - I
> therefore expect excellent service.
>
> If I had a customer with my problem ( failed clutch), and he stated he
> drove the car normally, I'd be investigating the cause of failure. It's
> poor
> business to automatically deny any and all culpabilty.
> I can guarentee the car was driven in a non-abusive manner. The clutch has
> failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it fail??? How will you
> prevent this failure in the future?? Why haven't the other 20 failed?? You
> tell me.
>
> I bought a new clutch system. I expect a new a new clutch system.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joel Koch
>
> PS- I've kept my opinions, and the facts, to myself so far.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:16 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> I received a call from an engineer at Exedy this morning regarding the
> burnt clutch I sent them pictures of yesterday and apparently my initial
> contact forwarded them to this engineer there to take a look at. He stated
> that two new discs would be the minimum that it would take to repair the
> damaged unit and he suggested replacing the pressure plate and floater as
> well due to the severe bluing and overheating they have been subjected to.
> He also said that one could probably get by with only the replacement
dics,
> but the clutch would more than likely chatter from the high spots that are
> there now, so if you can live with that, then it will live a long life,
> aside from that side issue. The other option would be to replace the
clutch
> assy. as a whole. He stated that Exedy can do it any way you wish and I
> told them that I would hold off until I heard from you either way. You
know
> what I know from Exedy and their position, so let me know and have a good
> day!
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch...diagnosis found
> Hello Joel,
> Yes, I found your car here that night and put it inside overnight. :-) I
> had a chance to test drive the car this morning and found that the
> engagement felt fine, but I could feel some sort of vibration on
> engagement, as well as the smell of burnt clutch when I put my nose to the
> bottom of the bell housing when we put the car into the air.
>
> We disassembled the drive train today and the photos speak for what we
have
> found. Upon initial removal of the torque tube, we found HEAVY clutch dust
> material inside the bell housing, which fell onto the floor at clutch
> removal. (the photo shows this) The slave cylinder area of the torque tube
> was spotless clean at installation and now you can see the heavy clutch
> dust deposits there also. There should NOT be this much clutch material
> wear after such a short time of use...
>
> You can clearly see the burning of the outer clutch disc which has gotten
> so hot, it has actually turned blue on BOTH sides, along with the
> overheating AND bluing of the floater plate between the two discs,
> including the pressure plate. There is also big hot spots on the flywheel
> surface, pressure plate AND on the floater plate which is probably why you
> felt a vibration on engagement like I did when I drove it this morning.
>
> This clutch has obviously gotten VERY hot, too soon in its life; hot
enough
> to warp and glaze the disc surface and partially damage the steel friction
> surfaces for which they ride. This clutch material is like brake pad
> material, if it gets hot too soon, it burns the pad, which causes the
> adhesive material in the clutch pad to come to the surface prematurely,
> causing glazing and bluing. As you know, once a brake pad or clutch disc
is
> glazed from over heatng, it usually never is the same again until
> replacement. Myself and Exedy suggest replacing both clutch discs for
> security and they stated to us that the flywheel/pressure plate/floater
> disc can be buffed smooth again for re-use since there is not many miles
on
> this unit to start with. Let us know how you wish to proceed.
>
>
> Best regards and God bless,
> Phil Rickard
> President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
joel
joel r koch dds
Ohio State '80
Cincinnati, Ohio
513.779.2200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch Diagnosis
> Hi Joel,
> Sorry for the other email I sent, I forgot to send a reply with it.
>
<<Since my first email concerning this clutch failure you have assumed an
> adversarial position. I really don't understand you're attitude concerning
> this matter?>>
> There is no negative attitude and your assumptions of your beliefs of
> DTE having an adversarial position are incorrect and inaccurate. I was
> merely stating our policies as we have them and outlining any and all
> scenarios on the table for you to see before we moved forward with
> anything, as a reminder. We've just been stating the facts in our emails
to
> the date; that's all, nothing else.
>
> <<I'm a customer that spent nearly $8000 for parts and labor performed by
> your shop. As you know your labor rates are in the premium range - I
> therefore expect excellent service.>>
> I am certainly aware of that and we value you as our customer. We
> provide excellent service to ALL our customers and you are no exception
> Joel. Our policies are in place to protect our customers AND DTE alike and
> they have no bearing on our ability to provide good, professional service,
> which we have. Normally, if we had a warranty claim we would make
> provisions to get to the car at our earliest possible opening. In an
effort
> to provide you with better than usual service, we got right at your car
the
> first thing Monday and put everyone else off to get to your car first,
took
> the necessary photos and made the necessary calls to get the ball rolling
> for YOU as soon as possible, as you requested. We normally do not delay
> deadlines to accommodate someone else, but for you we did........
>
> <<If I had a customer with my problem ( failed clutch), and he stated he
> drove the car normally, I'd be investigating the cause of failure. It's
> poor business to automatically deny any and all culpability.>>
> Again, we have NEVER assumed that position of deniability Joel and you
> are assuming incorrectly again. See my above statement again regarding
> this.
> The interesting thing here Joel is that you had already called me
> before any of these issues arose and informed me that you had to slip the
> clutch significantly to back up a steep grade, did you not? About three
> days after that, you started sending me emails stating that the clutch
felt
> strange and you were feeling vibrations and hearing strange rattles, did
> you not? If you need copies of these emails, I can forward them to you.
The
> problems you are having with this clutch didn't arise until AFTER the
> clutch was slipped up that hill.....
>
> <<I can guarantee the car was driven in a non-abusive manner.>>
> According to your emails and statements you have already made, you
> state otherwise.
>
> <<The clutch has failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it
> fail???>>
> Joel, clutches don't just get "burnt" by themselves, especially this
> type of clutch and the severe over heating on this clutch is from
excessive
> friction. Friction is caused by slipping the clutch and you have already
> stated that was done previous to problems you're experiencing.
> Here is an excerpt of a previous email I sent you explaining the
> problems associated with over heating a clutch too soon in its life. Here
> is a copy in case you don't remember:
>
> <snip>
> "This clutch has obviously gotten VERY hot, too soon in its life; hot
> enough to warp and glaze the disc surface and partially damage the steel
> friction surfaces for which they ride. This clutch material is like brake
> pad material, if it gets hot too soon, it burns the pad, which causes the
> adhesive material in the clutch pad to come to the surface prematurely,
> causing glazing and bluing. As you know, once a brake pad or clutch disc
is
> glazed from over heating, it usually never is the same again until
> replacement."
> <snip>
>
> <<How will you prevent this failure in the future??>>
> The clutch did not burn up on its own and did not cause this
failure...
> We were not driving the car to cause the failure... The clutch was burnt
up
> due to excessive heat from friction caused by slipping it. The photos
speak
> for themselves Joel. If the problem was caused by miss-installation, we
> would take care of it. If the clutch had a component fail prematurely
> within it requiring replacement, we would cover it. It is the
> responsibility of the owner of the clutch to use it properly and avoid
> "slipping" ANY clutch no matter who the manufacturer is, especially when
> nearly new, as excessive friction will only degrade the clutch disc's life
> prematurely due to heat and wear. I have sent these photos to Exedy and to
> our major clutch component distributor and the first thing they stated
when
> seeing them was that it failed due to extreme heat, which can only be
> caused in this manner by the clutch being slipped excessively some time in
> its early life. They didn't even know of this situation before they saw
the
> photos and made the comment.
>
> <<As you know your labor rates are in the premium range>>
> Our labor rates are right on par in this type of specialty business
and
> for this area and we perform good work to back it up. I'm sure you
> understand being in a medical/human service field.
>
> <<The clutch has failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it
> fail???>>
> As stated before, the photos speak for themselves and my above
> statements explain it in very precise, vivid details.
>
> <<Why haven't the other 20 failed?? You tell me.>>
> Mine and Exedy's point exactly.... These clutches are of extremely
good
> quality and we, nor anyone else that I know of has EVER had a clutch
> failure to date, especially one that is as "burnt" as bad as this one.
That
> being said, it stands to reason that one must look at the specific
instance
> as a comparison to the whole to determine the cause for failure and with
> your already made statements of having slipped the clutch to get up a hill
> further makes the reason for premature failure clear.
>
> <<I bought a new clutch system. I expect a new a new clutch system.>>
> That is fine Joel, but DTE nor Exedy is going to warranty a clutch
that
> was misused in whatever manner, that caused its premature failure. As I
> told you before we even took a look at the car, we would stand behind the
> product and our labor if the cause of the premature failure was the fault
> of DTE or Exedy, but in this case, that is just NOT the case. Here is a
cop
> of an earlier email stating the same thing in case you don't remember:
> <snip>
> "We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly
be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.""
> <snip>
>
> The photos speak for themselves and anyone who knows anything about
> cars would make the same conclusion of failure cause after seeing these
> photos. We have ALWAYS been fair to our customers in every instance when
we
> could, but we cannot possibly take responsibility in this matter because
we
> had nothing to do with it's failure. Look at how people make erroneous
> claims to dealerships when they break their car racing... Its not GM's
> fault that the customer is abusing their car, but then the customer thinks
> that GM should pay to fix it when its broke racing and that is not fair to
> anyone.....
> I certainly understand you spent a lot of money to upgrade your car
> here and we appreciate your business, but that fact does not automatically
> give one a ticket to make a warranty claim that is unfounded.
>
> After a lengthy conversation with Exedy today and seeking insight from
> a three other tuners on what they would do in this situation, DTE is solid
> on this stance in what has been said above. Exedy and DTE are more than
> willing to offer professional service and tech help to answer any
> questions/comments you may have, or to help in any way we can, except
> covering this under a warranty claim. Let us know what you wish to do.
have
> a great day! :-)
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:08 AM
Subject: Response from Exedy and proposed action
> Hi Joel,
> I had a lengthy conversation with Exedy and our clutch distributor this
> morning regarding this burnt clutch issue. We all concurred that this
> clutch failure was caused by excessive overheating caused by slippage of
> the clutch way too early in its life, therefore damaging the clutch assy.
> Clutches don't just "burn up" by themselves and in order for this type of
> damage to occur, the clutch HAS to have an interaction with the driver in
> some way, period. DTE nor Exedy has no obligation to offer a warranty of
> any kind in this instance due to the obvious abuse (in whatever manner)
> that this clutch has been subjected to. Exedy and our clutch distributor
> both have EVERY and ALL copies of you and I's correspondence emails
> regarding this issue as well, for their own knowledge and record keeping
of
> the situation.
>
> Exedy is a top-notch, professional, customer service driven company that
is
> still willing to help you as a BIG gesture of good customer service, even
> though they are by rights not obligated too, by providing you with a
> replacement clutch at no charge. They did make it clear to us that this
> move is in NO WAY an admittance to having an inferior product, nor does it
> admit to being at fault, it is just an extension of courtesy to DTE's
> customer as an appreciation for our's and your business and good customer
> service to you. Exedy builds extremely well built and engineered clutch
> systems that perform as claimed and they have NOT had any failures of over
> a 137 units sold until this one, so you can figure the odds here...
>
> Since Exedy has extended this BIG gesture of customer service when they
> didn't have too, DTE will also reciprocate that as well and offer you a
> good customer service gesture of our own. We obviously described to you
> already in triplicate, the details regarding the protocol of the
> disassembly of this car and the various scenarios of who would assume the
> charges depending on what was found upon disassembly. That being said, we
> have no obligation to just "give" our labor away as outlined in those
> details, but we are willing to meet you half way and reduce the
> installation charges by one half. The reduced installation cost is now
only
> $324.
>
> Both Exedy and DTE feel as though this offering from both of us is MORE
> than fair, considering what has been found in the photos and the
> alternative of nothing at all. Please respond back to DTE ASAP on how you
> wish to proceed and if this is acceptable to you. We are both waiting for
> an answer on this end and thank you from both of us and have a great day!
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
> From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:14 PM
> Subject: Corvette????
>
>
> > Joel,
> > What are we going to do with this car Joel?? We have not heard a
response
> > back from you yet and we are aware you have already spoken to Exedy
> before
> > you read our last email to you. We assume you received our last email
> > yesterday??
> >
> >
> > Best Regards and God Bless,
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > PH. (260)407-5455
> > FX. (260)407-5457
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette????
Phil,
I spoke with Bruce Reuter today. He said I will be taken care of and
he would notify me as soon as he has a twin disk for you to install in my
car.
Regards,
Joel Koch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette????
> Joel,
> That we knew and when we get one in here, we'll install it the exact same
> way we did the first unit. As stated before in my past email, the charge
is
> after your discount we extended you for the labor is $324. Have a nice
day.
> Here is a copy if you don't have it:
>
> <>
> "Since Exedy has extended this BIG gesture of customer service when they
> didn't have too, DTE will also reciprocate that as well and offer you a
> good customer service gesture of our own. We obviously described to you
> already in triplicate, the details regarding the protocol of the
> disassembly of this car and the various scenarios of who would assume the
> charges depending on what was found upon disassembly. That being said, we
> have no obligation to just "give" our labor away as outlined in those
> details, but we are willing to meet you half way and reduce the
> installation charges by one half. The reduced installation cost is now
only
> $324."
> <>
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:38 PM
Subject: Clutch replacement
> Hi Joel,
> We received the replacement clutch from Exedy and we've added the
> re-installation work to our schedule for early next week. ;-)
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:55 PM
Subject: Corvette Completion
> Hi Joel,
> Your Corvette is complete and can be picked up anytime during regular
> business hours. The new clutch feels as good as the first unit and we
> replaced the pilot bearing and release bearing AGAIN just for good
measure,
> at no charge to you. The total for the split labor is $324. Let us know
> when you are coming this way to pick it up and have a nice day.
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Completion
> Phil,
> I spoke to Bruce Reuter again today about you're insistent claim of
$324.
> In previous conversations Bruce said Exedy would take care of everything
and
> I should ignore your $324 request. Today Bruce said he thought your
> agreement was Exedy would supply a new clutch package and you would
replace
> the failed unit. Unfortunately he has no control over your end of the
> replacement.
> As I've said before I will not pay a single dime for the replacement. I
> already paid for a failed clutch and I expect it to be replaced. This is
not
> negotiable - period.
> If you want to go the route of Attorneys, subpeonas, depositions etc.
to
> get at the facts - I will. I don't think Exedy, Carolina Clutch or your
> mechanics will be very happy with the time required of them; especially
> since they are probably aware of other similar failures....... and maybe
> more.
> The ball is in your court Phil. I think you've already given yourself,
> and DynoTech, a black eye.
>
> Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: phil@dynotech-eng.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:39 PM
Subject: Joel Koch - cage
Phil,
Just a reminder - I want the weld-in 6 pt 4130 cromoly cage. Thanks.
Joel Koch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
>
>
> > Hi Joel,
> > Yes, that is what we have on file here as well. I ordered that roll bar
> the
> > same day you scheduled your appt. 3 weeks ago and it should arrive here
> > this week from what they inform me.
> >
> > I went over/reviewed your build file and found that you're going with
our
> > Stage II-X differential. That differential has a 2 week build time due
to
> > the cryogenic processing that is done with that unit and when I told you
> of
> > a 1 week completion time last Sat., I forgot you were getting the Stage
> > II-X, so I informed you wrong regarding delivery date. I wanted to
clarify
> > that.
> >
> > Also, we baseline dynoed your car today and it made 442 RWHP/400 RWTQ.
Is
> > that about what you expected?
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> No , I expected more HP and TQ! Actually, I'm relieved it's not a
> dog...I expected 430 - 440 Hp and above 400 Tq before tuning. Are the Hp
and
> Tq SAE corrected and through the exhaust - I hope and assume?
> The cam is 0.579" 239/251 on a 106 lsa - Grand Am cam. Lobes are not
very
> radical as opposed to the Comp XERs. I think it's a good solid roadracing
> cam and a bit kinder to the valvetrain. So, I wasn't expecting superstar
> type numbers.
> I would think it's rich WOT and not a smooth AFR plot. Can you email
me
> the dyno/AFR printout at dkoch3@cinci.rr.com ( work email)?
> When should I expect it to be completed i.e pickup date??
> Thanks for the tour Saturday. Wayne and I were very impressed with it's
> order and cleanliness. I was raised in and around shops....I know dirt
and
> chaos. We were very surprised at the number of cars you have in progress.
My
> grandfather told me to work hard when you're young - so you don't have to
> later. He was right and it looks like your following his advice. Hard work
> pays off - eventually. Thanks for the prompt response.
>
> Regards,
>
> joel
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> The plots don't cross at 5252???
>
>
joel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
>
>
> > Joel,
> > It's not uncommon to observe that on the graph when power is measured at
> > the rear wheels. An engine dyno is a much better tool to measure
relative
> > HP to TQ at that RPM.
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Joel Koch - cage
> Phil,
> As I'm sure you know Tq is the measured parameter in the real world of
> dynos. Hp is derived from the measured Tq. Due to the derivation, of Hp
from
> Tq, all dyno Hp-Tq graphs cross at 5252 RPM.
> Just as light travels at 186,000 mi/sec all dynos cross at 5252.My point
> is - if they don't cross at 5252 something is seriously wrong.
> Best Regards,
> joel
>
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: my car
Phil,
Hey! When will my car be done?? While your in there can you put in an LAPD clutch bleeder??? I'll of course pay extra for this
.Here's some info from NoGo ( LS1Tech.com guru) on the Dyno sheet and 5252:
" Congrats, the numbers look good. The cross of the plots is odd. The
roll speed calibration of the dyno could be off, or the rpm pick-up on your
vehicle, if it is going over a serial connection to the computer, could be
lagging a bit with the data. Not too uncommon."
Thanks!
joel
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:10 AM
> Subject: Corvette Progress :-)
>
>
> > Hello Joel,
> > Just wanted to drop you a line to let you know where we are with your
> > Corvette. The clutch is installed and working nicely (you'll love the
new
> > feel of this clutch-BTW) and the roll bar installation is about 1/2
> > completed.
> >
> > We have not been able to locate any 4.10 gear sets anywhere, from anyone
> > and evidently, those who do have a few sets in a stash are hoarding them
> > and not selling to anyone else.
> >
> > We had anticipated having 3 sets in here by the middle of last month,
but
> > that fell through as well and we were left hanging out to dry by a
> > distributor that *promised* us he could get us these three sets, even
> > though we couldn't find them anywhere. (we are direct w/ the
manufacturer)
> > Needless to say, we were flat out lied to and we had to cancel and
refund
> > two other appts. that were scheduled to have 4.10's installed in the
> > future. We've been scouring the internet and calling every possible
> contact
> > we have for the last week just to land us *something*, but there are non
> to
> > be had...anywhere. Every tuner that installs gears is experiencing the
> same
> > 3.90/4.10 shortage issue we are faced with.
> >
> > Luckily, we didn't disassemble your current differential because we were
> > uncertain of the 4.10 ratio availability and the skepticism we had about
> > that distributor that "claimed" they could get us what we needed,
despite
> > our knowing better. (we thought we would give them a chance anyway) We
> > re-installed your original differential and refilled it with Redline
> > synthetic lube and re-filled the trans. with synthetic lube as well.
> >
> > We also fixed a number of little things we found while under there, i.e.
> > leaking exhaust pipes, leaky welds, cut o2 sensor wires, melted wiring
> > harness tubing and connectors, o2 sensor interference with the heat
> shield,
> > etc, etc, etc.... We're very **** about the little details like that and
> > the car will be 100% correct upon return delivery. :-)
> >
> > We anticipate the completion of the car mid-next week, including the PCM
> > calibration and dyno tune, so if you have any questions, please give me
a
> > call.
Have a great day!> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
> >
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
> Phil,
> Thanks for the reply. when do you expect to have 4.10s and the stage
2X
> diff for me??
> Can you install Sparco Evo seats and 6 pt harnesses while you're in
> there? IF I can have them drop shipped??
> Please send response to dkoch3@cinci.rr.com and DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com .
> Thank you.
>
> joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
>
> Also............
> If we went with 3.73s (same stge2x rear) ...how much to swap them for
the
> 4.10s - when you can get them????
>
> joel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
>
>
> > Yes, we do have the 3.73's in stock and the pricing would be the same.
If
> > you choose to go this route, than we'll waive the removal of the
> > differential again to save you some money nd get it started right away.
> :-)
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> >
> > Best regards and God bless,
> > Phil Rickard
> > President
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Progress :-)
> Okay, if go with the Stage IIX and 3.73s for now..............How much
> would you charge me to switch out the 3.73s for 4.10s, in June or July,
when
> Motive delivers on the 4.10s.
> I'll call about the Sparco serats and belts tomorrow.
>
> I'll call you tomorrow also.
>
> joel
> From: "Joel Koch" <dkoch3@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:47 PM
> Subject: FW: Tuning, parts, and installs
>
>
> Phil,
> Last nite you said you would keep my diff as a core or use it in the
> build up. You quoted me the Stage II X - priced out right (no core). See
> the enclosed attachments and email. You in fact told me I could turn
> around and sell my diff to recoup some of the costs. If you use my diff
> how much do you credit me for the Stage II X??
> Regards,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:23 PM
> Subject: Corvette Photos
>
>
> > Hi Joel,
> > Here are some photos we've taken along the way during the build-up of
your
> > Corvette that we thought you'd find interesting.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Phil Rickard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <dkoch3@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Tuning, parts, and installs
> Hi Joel,
> Yes, you indeed are correct, as we normally only sell the Stage II-X as an
> outright core because we use only new, 3-series cores for the build-up for
> added strength. If your current differential is in VERY good condition, we
> can use it if you wish and the regular core charge amount is $600, so you
> would have that amount reduced from the upgrade. If you choose to go this
> route, let me know so we can get it sent out ASAP for cryogenic treatment.
>
>
> Best regards and God bless,
> Phil Rickard
> President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Photos
> Phil,
> Thanks. Earlier you said you found some exhaust leaks....do you remember
> where they were at???
> Also when you put it on the Dyno, for the tune, can you plot the AFR for
> me. While you are at it can you do a run on each bank - left and right
> AFRs????
> Thanks again.
May 28 2004
Hi Joel,
We hope you made it back safely.
Just wanted to drop you a calibrationtip for when you switch your PCM back over to closed loop. After you make
the switch, add fuel to the base cal. by adding IFR to the given cell to
trim the fueling where the o2 sensors tell you it is in relation to stoich.
Remember to let it be a little lean at idle (about +1% to +3%) and
about -3% to -5% everywhere else through the curve so that the engine is
crisp off idle and clean throughout the fueling curve. Leave your VE tables
where they are and trim w/ the IFR to satisfy the engine and you'll find
that your fuel mileage will return and the overall drivability will be MUCH
more linear and smooth. Have a good weekend and thank you again for your
business! :-)
Best regards and God bless,
Phil Rickard
President
Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: dkoch7
To: Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: Exedy Clutch
Phil,
Hi. Last nite the car jumped out of 1st gear rolling away from a
light - it's never done that! I checked the hyd. clutch resevoir and it's
very low - I'll add GM fluid.
joel koch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> The clutch fluid level was topped off w/ GM fluid before the car left here
> on that Thursday, as is any car's system before it's complete and
> delivered.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 9:01 AM
Subject: Fw: Exedy Clutch
Phil,
Hi. I forgot to include that it's starting to vibrate above 3800 RPM.
Vibrating enouh that it is reducing power output. I'm not going to add
fluid...I'll call you later today.
joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> I've never heard of a clutch that "starts" to vibrate after mileage, as
> they either do right away when they are installed (which that one didn't)
> or they don't at all. We've successfully sold and installed over 21 of
> these units to be used in HP applications and none of them has ever had a
> problem at all to our knowledge, so I'm curious to know why this one just
> started to, espeacially after it left here operating flawlessly.
>
> We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.
>
> Give me a call when you get a chance and we'll go from there. Have a good
> night.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil Rickard
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> Bring it over and we'll perform an inspection on the terms outlined in my
> last email to determine the problem. I'm curious to know why the clutch
> fluid was low when you checked it. Is there anything leaking under the car
> that is coming from the bellhosing area? Possibly a blown/leaking slave
> cylinder? Trying to find possible causes before we get a chance to look at
> it.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:36 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch Diagnosis
> Hi Phil,
> Thanks for bringing my car inside. Nothing very surprising in the
> photos - that's why we trailered the car Saturday.
>
> Since my first email concerning this clutch failure you have assumed an
> adverserial position. I really don't understand you're attitude concerning
> this matter?
>
> I'm a customer that spent nearly $8000 for parts and labor performed by
> your shop. As you know your labor rates are in the premium range - I
> therefore expect excellent service.
>
> If I had a customer with my problem ( failed clutch), and he stated he
> drove the car normally, I'd be investigating the cause of failure. It's
> poor
> business to automatically deny any and all culpabilty.
> I can guarentee the car was driven in a non-abusive manner. The clutch has
> failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it fail??? How will you
> prevent this failure in the future?? Why haven't the other 20 failed?? You
> tell me.
>
> I bought a new clutch system. I expect a new a new clutch system.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joel Koch
>
> PS- I've kept my opinions, and the facts, to myself so far.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:16 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch
> Hi Joel,
> I received a call from an engineer at Exedy this morning regarding the
> burnt clutch I sent them pictures of yesterday and apparently my initial
> contact forwarded them to this engineer there to take a look at. He stated
> that two new discs would be the minimum that it would take to repair the
> damaged unit and he suggested replacing the pressure plate and floater as
> well due to the severe bluing and overheating they have been subjected to.
> He also said that one could probably get by with only the replacement
dics,
> but the clutch would more than likely chatter from the high spots that are
> there now, so if you can live with that, then it will live a long life,
> aside from that side issue. The other option would be to replace the
clutch
> assy. as a whole. He stated that Exedy can do it any way you wish and I
> told them that I would hold off until I heard from you either way. You
know
> what I know from Exedy and their position, so let me know and have a good
> day!
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Exedy Clutch...diagnosis found
> Hello Joel,
> Yes, I found your car here that night and put it inside overnight. :-) I
> had a chance to test drive the car this morning and found that the
> engagement felt fine, but I could feel some sort of vibration on
> engagement, as well as the smell of burnt clutch when I put my nose to the
> bottom of the bell housing when we put the car into the air.
>
> We disassembled the drive train today and the photos speak for what we
have
> found. Upon initial removal of the torque tube, we found HEAVY clutch dust
> material inside the bell housing, which fell onto the floor at clutch
> removal. (the photo shows this) The slave cylinder area of the torque tube
> was spotless clean at installation and now you can see the heavy clutch
> dust deposits there also. There should NOT be this much clutch material
> wear after such a short time of use...
>
> You can clearly see the burning of the outer clutch disc which has gotten
> so hot, it has actually turned blue on BOTH sides, along with the
> overheating AND bluing of the floater plate between the two discs,
> including the pressure plate. There is also big hot spots on the flywheel
> surface, pressure plate AND on the floater plate which is probably why you
> felt a vibration on engagement like I did when I drove it this morning.
>
> This clutch has obviously gotten VERY hot, too soon in its life; hot
enough
> to warp and glaze the disc surface and partially damage the steel friction
> surfaces for which they ride. This clutch material is like brake pad
> material, if it gets hot too soon, it burns the pad, which causes the
> adhesive material in the clutch pad to come to the surface prematurely,
> causing glazing and bluing. As you know, once a brake pad or clutch disc
is
> glazed from over heatng, it usually never is the same again until
> replacement. Myself and Exedy suggest replacing both clutch discs for
> security and they stated to us that the flywheel/pressure plate/floater
> disc can be buffed smooth again for re-use since there is not many miles
on
> this unit to start with. Let us know how you wish to proceed.
>
>
> Best regards and God bless,
> Phil Rickard
> President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
joel
joel r koch dds
Ohio State '80
Cincinnati, Ohio
513.779.2200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Exedy Clutch Diagnosis
> Hi Joel,
> Sorry for the other email I sent, I forgot to send a reply with it.
>
<<Since my first email concerning this clutch failure you have assumed an
> adversarial position. I really don't understand you're attitude concerning
> this matter?>>
> There is no negative attitude and your assumptions of your beliefs of
> DTE having an adversarial position are incorrect and inaccurate. I was
> merely stating our policies as we have them and outlining any and all
> scenarios on the table for you to see before we moved forward with
> anything, as a reminder. We've just been stating the facts in our emails
to
> the date; that's all, nothing else.
>
> <<I'm a customer that spent nearly $8000 for parts and labor performed by
> your shop. As you know your labor rates are in the premium range - I
> therefore expect excellent service.>>
> I am certainly aware of that and we value you as our customer. We
> provide excellent service to ALL our customers and you are no exception
> Joel. Our policies are in place to protect our customers AND DTE alike and
> they have no bearing on our ability to provide good, professional service,
> which we have. Normally, if we had a warranty claim we would make
> provisions to get to the car at our earliest possible opening. In an
effort
> to provide you with better than usual service, we got right at your car
the
> first thing Monday and put everyone else off to get to your car first,
took
> the necessary photos and made the necessary calls to get the ball rolling
> for YOU as soon as possible, as you requested. We normally do not delay
> deadlines to accommodate someone else, but for you we did........
>
> <<If I had a customer with my problem ( failed clutch), and he stated he
> drove the car normally, I'd be investigating the cause of failure. It's
> poor business to automatically deny any and all culpability.>>
> Again, we have NEVER assumed that position of deniability Joel and you
> are assuming incorrectly again. See my above statement again regarding
> this.
> The interesting thing here Joel is that you had already called me
> before any of these issues arose and informed me that you had to slip the
> clutch significantly to back up a steep grade, did you not? About three
> days after that, you started sending me emails stating that the clutch
felt
> strange and you were feeling vibrations and hearing strange rattles, did
> you not? If you need copies of these emails, I can forward them to you.
The
> problems you are having with this clutch didn't arise until AFTER the
> clutch was slipped up that hill.....
>
> <<I can guarantee the car was driven in a non-abusive manner.>>
> According to your emails and statements you have already made, you
> state otherwise.
>
> <<The clutch has failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it
> fail???>>
> Joel, clutches don't just get "burnt" by themselves, especially this
> type of clutch and the severe over heating on this clutch is from
excessive
> friction. Friction is caused by slipping the clutch and you have already
> stated that was done previous to problems you're experiencing.
> Here is an excerpt of a previous email I sent you explaining the
> problems associated with over heating a clutch too soon in its life. Here
> is a copy in case you don't remember:
>
> <snip>
> "This clutch has obviously gotten VERY hot, too soon in its life; hot
> enough to warp and glaze the disc surface and partially damage the steel
> friction surfaces for which they ride. This clutch material is like brake
> pad material, if it gets hot too soon, it burns the pad, which causes the
> adhesive material in the clutch pad to come to the surface prematurely,
> causing glazing and bluing. As you know, once a brake pad or clutch disc
is
> glazed from over heating, it usually never is the same again until
> replacement."
> <snip>
>
> <<How will you prevent this failure in the future??>>
> The clutch did not burn up on its own and did not cause this
failure...
> We were not driving the car to cause the failure... The clutch was burnt
up
> due to excessive heat from friction caused by slipping it. The photos
speak
> for themselves Joel. If the problem was caused by miss-installation, we
> would take care of it. If the clutch had a component fail prematurely
> within it requiring replacement, we would cover it. It is the
> responsibility of the owner of the clutch to use it properly and avoid
> "slipping" ANY clutch no matter who the manufacturer is, especially when
> nearly new, as excessive friction will only degrade the clutch disc's life
> prematurely due to heat and wear. I have sent these photos to Exedy and to
> our major clutch component distributor and the first thing they stated
when
> seeing them was that it failed due to extreme heat, which can only be
> caused in this manner by the clutch being slipped excessively some time in
> its early life. They didn't even know of this situation before they saw
the
> photos and made the comment.
>
> <<As you know your labor rates are in the premium range>>
> Our labor rates are right on par in this type of specialty business
and
> for this area and we perform good work to back it up. I'm sure you
> understand being in a medical/human service field.
>
> <<The clutch has failed with less than 750 miles on it. Why did it
> fail???>>
> As stated before, the photos speak for themselves and my above
> statements explain it in very precise, vivid details.
>
> <<Why haven't the other 20 failed?? You tell me.>>
> Mine and Exedy's point exactly.... These clutches are of extremely
good
> quality and we, nor anyone else that I know of has EVER had a clutch
> failure to date, especially one that is as "burnt" as bad as this one.
That
> being said, it stands to reason that one must look at the specific
instance
> as a comparison to the whole to determine the cause for failure and with
> your already made statements of having slipped the clutch to get up a hill
> further makes the reason for premature failure clear.
>
> <<I bought a new clutch system. I expect a new a new clutch system.>>
> That is fine Joel, but DTE nor Exedy is going to warranty a clutch
that
> was misused in whatever manner, that caused its premature failure. As I
> told you before we even took a look at the car, we would stand behind the
> product and our labor if the cause of the premature failure was the fault
> of DTE or Exedy, but in this case, that is just NOT the case. Here is a
cop
> of an earlier email stating the same thing in case you don't remember:
> <snip>
> "We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly
be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.""
> <snip>
>
> The photos speak for themselves and anyone who knows anything about
> cars would make the same conclusion of failure cause after seeing these
> photos. We have ALWAYS been fair to our customers in every instance when
we
> could, but we cannot possibly take responsibility in this matter because
we
> had nothing to do with it's failure. Look at how people make erroneous
> claims to dealerships when they break their car racing... Its not GM's
> fault that the customer is abusing their car, but then the customer thinks
> that GM should pay to fix it when its broke racing and that is not fair to
> anyone.....
> I certainly understand you spent a lot of money to upgrade your car
> here and we appreciate your business, but that fact does not automatically
> give one a ticket to make a warranty claim that is unfounded.
>
> After a lengthy conversation with Exedy today and seeking insight from
> a three other tuners on what they would do in this situation, DTE is solid
> on this stance in what has been said above. Exedy and DTE are more than
> willing to offer professional service and tech help to answer any
> questions/comments you may have, or to help in any way we can, except
> covering this under a warranty claim. Let us know what you wish to do.
have
> a great day! :-)
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:08 AM
Subject: Response from Exedy and proposed action
> Hi Joel,
> I had a lengthy conversation with Exedy and our clutch distributor this
> morning regarding this burnt clutch issue. We all concurred that this
> clutch failure was caused by excessive overheating caused by slippage of
> the clutch way too early in its life, therefore damaging the clutch assy.
> Clutches don't just "burn up" by themselves and in order for this type of
> damage to occur, the clutch HAS to have an interaction with the driver in
> some way, period. DTE nor Exedy has no obligation to offer a warranty of
> any kind in this instance due to the obvious abuse (in whatever manner)
> that this clutch has been subjected to. Exedy and our clutch distributor
> both have EVERY and ALL copies of you and I's correspondence emails
> regarding this issue as well, for their own knowledge and record keeping
of
> the situation.
>
> Exedy is a top-notch, professional, customer service driven company that
is
> still willing to help you as a BIG gesture of good customer service, even
> though they are by rights not obligated too, by providing you with a
> replacement clutch at no charge. They did make it clear to us that this
> move is in NO WAY an admittance to having an inferior product, nor does it
> admit to being at fault, it is just an extension of courtesy to DTE's
> customer as an appreciation for our's and your business and good customer
> service to you. Exedy builds extremely well built and engineered clutch
> systems that perform as claimed and they have NOT had any failures of over
> a 137 units sold until this one, so you can figure the odds here...
>
> Since Exedy has extended this BIG gesture of customer service when they
> didn't have too, DTE will also reciprocate that as well and offer you a
> good customer service gesture of our own. We obviously described to you
> already in triplicate, the details regarding the protocol of the
> disassembly of this car and the various scenarios of who would assume the
> charges depending on what was found upon disassembly. That being said, we
> have no obligation to just "give" our labor away as outlined in those
> details, but we are willing to meet you half way and reduce the
> installation charges by one half. The reduced installation cost is now
only
> $324.
>
> Both Exedy and DTE feel as though this offering from both of us is MORE
> than fair, considering what has been found in the photos and the
> alternative of nothing at all. Please respond back to DTE ASAP on how you
> wish to proceed and if this is acceptable to you. We are both waiting for
> an answer on this end and thank you from both of us and have a great day!
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
> From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
> To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:14 PM
> Subject: Corvette????
>
>
> > Joel,
> > What are we going to do with this car Joel?? We have not heard a
response
> > back from you yet and we are aware you have already spoken to Exedy
> before
> > you read our last email to you. We assume you received our last email
> > yesterday??
> >
> >
> > Best Regards and God Bless,
> > Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> > PH. (260)407-5455
> > FX. (260)407-5457
> > www.dynotech-eng.com
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette????
Phil,
I spoke with Bruce Reuter today. He said I will be taken care of and
he would notify me as soon as he has a twin disk for you to install in my
car.
Regards,
Joel Koch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette????
> Joel,
> That we knew and when we get one in here, we'll install it the exact same
> way we did the first unit. As stated before in my past email, the charge
is
> after your discount we extended you for the labor is $324. Have a nice
day.
> Here is a copy if you don't have it:
>
> <>
> "Since Exedy has extended this BIG gesture of customer service when they
> didn't have too, DTE will also reciprocate that as well and offer you a
> good customer service gesture of our own. We obviously described to you
> already in triplicate, the details regarding the protocol of the
> disassembly of this car and the various scenarios of who would assume the
> charges depending on what was found upon disassembly. That being said, we
> have no obligation to just "give" our labor away as outlined in those
> details, but we are willing to meet you half way and reduce the
> installation charges by one half. The reduced installation cost is now
only
> $324."
> <>
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:38 PM
Subject: Clutch replacement
> Hi Joel,
> We received the replacement clutch from Exedy and we've added the
> re-installation work to our schedule for early next week. ;-)
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:55 PM
Subject: Corvette Completion
> Hi Joel,
> Your Corvette is complete and can be picked up anytime during regular
> business hours. The new clutch feels as good as the first unit and we
> replaced the pilot bearing and release bearing AGAIN just for good
measure,
> at no charge to you. The total for the split labor is $324. Let us know
> when you are coming this way to pick it up and have a nice day.
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Phil Rickard- President
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dkoch7" <dkoch7@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Completion
> Phil,
> I spoke to Bruce Reuter again today about you're insistent claim of
$324.
> In previous conversations Bruce said Exedy would take care of everything
and
> I should ignore your $324 request. Today Bruce said he thought your
> agreement was Exedy would supply a new clutch package and you would
replace
> the failed unit. Unfortunately he has no control over your end of the
> replacement.
> As I've said before I will not pay a single dime for the replacement. I
> already paid for a failed clutch and I expect it to be replaced. This is
not
> negotiable - period.
> If you want to go the route of Attorneys, subpeonas, depositions etc.
to
> get at the facts - I will. I don't think Exedy, Carolina Clutch or your
> mechanics will be very happy with the time required of them; especially
> since they are probably aware of other similar failures....... and maybe
> more.
> The ball is in your court Phil. I think you've already given yourself,
> and DynoTech, a black eye.
>
> Joel
11-28-2004, 07:19 PM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My DynoTech Engineering Experience-part C
Sorry guys I had to reduce part B and create Part C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Completion- response
> Joel,
> Sometimes it becomes clearly obvious to a company that no matter what is
> done for a customer to try to give them good customer service and the
> willingness to bend over backwards for them multiple times, that there is
> just NOTHING that can be done to make them happy... In this case, this is
> referring to you.
>
> I am going to present you with the ACCURATE FACTS once again, as it seems
> like you consistently choose to forget them (or ignore them for whatever
> reason) to try and validate your claim and refusal to pay a bill that is
> NOT unfounded or fraudulent.
>
> FACT 1: Shortly after this issue started, I clearly stated to you multiple
> times in emails, the protocol on what we were going to do and how we would
> handle the various types of scenarios depending on what we found upon
> disassembly. You took immediate defense of our common, standard policy
that
> EVERYONE else abides by and chose to ignore it for whatever reason, even
> though we hadn't even seen the car to make an evaluation.
>
> FACT 2:You stated I had an attitude...I had none, just stating our policy
> in a very professional manner.
>
> FACT 3: You stated that we were refusing to take responsibility...we did
> not make that claim upon initial emails of the issue, but you assumed that
> was the case and convinced yourself otherwise.
>
> FACT 4: After disassembly, I sent you, Exedy and Carolina Clutch pictures
> of the burnt clutch from the car and explained very clearly on how it
could
> of occurred and you immediately you stated that it was our/Exedy's fault
> for the clutch failure...even though you admitted to slipping the clutch
to
> park the car on an incline prior to the disassembly.
>
> FACT 5: What you don't know is that I went to bat for you with Exedy to
try
> and get something done that very day we took it apart and then sent you an
> email explaining that Exedy AND DTE were willing to help you. Instead, you
> went behind my back and spoke to Bruce that very day and bad mouthed me
and
> my company to him before you even read the email and then had the audacity
> not to even acknowledge with any type of contact what we were going to do
> for you to try and help you nor a common thank you or anything. In fact,
> after I stated to you in my emails that I sent everyone involved copies of
> our emails conversations, you immediately refrained in communicating any
> more other than just one or two sentence emails since you knew that they
> would see everything you said. Instead you still remained defiant and
> demanding despite what we had done for you with Exedy and what DTE was
> offering you as a fair break.
>
> FACT 6: When we found out that Exedy was going to replace the clutch at no
> charge to you, DTE also offered to split the installation labor with you
as
> a gesture of customer satisfaction, even though we had no obligation to do
> anything due to the severe clutch abuse that was found upon disassembly.
> You were informed of the protocol multiple times before we even got to
this
> point, but you chose to ignore them and do what "you want" regardless of
> standard policy that was made VERY CLEAR to you.
>
> FACT 7: As I told you in a past email last Friday 7-2-04, we were not even
> going to put your car into our schedule to get at the car to install the
> replacement clutch until Thursday 7-8-04, but we had a break in the shop,
> so we got right at your car EARLY so YOU could have it sooner. The car was
> completed two days ahead of schedule and you were informed of its early
> completion promptly. An email was sent to you informing you of this and
you
> NEVER responded... This was not enough for you either.....
>
> FACT 8: We installed ANOTHER new pilot bearing AND release bearing AGAIN
> just for good measure, even though we didn't have to, just to make sure
> everything was right for YOU. We didn't charge you for this either, even
> though we had the right to...
>
> FACT 9: Now, after all that we have done for you in getting this taken
care
> of in the quickest, cleanest manner possible, you still remain defiant and
> refuse to pay a bill that is more than a generous gesture of good customer
> service towards you and you STILL are demanding of even MORE.....
>
> FACT 10: Exedy has NEVER had a clutch failure of this type by ANYONE after
> a few hundred of them sold and now you step up and say that the clutch
> "just failed"???? The issue becomes VERY clear here on where the problem
> lies... Not the clutch, not the installer, but the driver..... The
> statistics are NOT in your favor here Joel and it is very suspicious that
> YOU are the ONLY one having problems with these clutches........
>
>
> The bottom line is this Joel, DTE has gone above and beyond what we had to
> do to take care of this in the simplest, cleanest fashion possible and
have
> extended you every possible gesture of customer satisfaction, but it still
> is not enough... We even stayed late (9pm) just for you when you picked it
> up the first time, even though you stated that you would be there by 9pm,
> but got there 1/2 hour late..... We didn't say anything, but stayed until
> you arrived to help YOU!!!!!
>
> We made everything clear to you up front before we began on how we would
> handle the matter depending on what we found on disassembly so that you
> were perfectly clear on the matter.
>
> We went to Exedy for YOU to try and help the situation and get something
> done, even though you bad mouthed DTE repeatedly during the whole time we
> were working for YOU.
>
> We installed new components AGAIN just to insure everything was right for
> YOU at NO CHARGE to YOU.
>
> We offered to split the installation labor, even though we had no
> obligation to and you REFUSED to meet us halfway.
>
> YOU burned the clutch up Joel, we didn't and we will not take
> responsibility for your negligence in not breaking it in properly and
> slipping it excessively. That clutch left here in smooth working order and
> was operating as designed and it wasn't until you abused it by slipping it
> excessively that all the problems stated to arise.
>
> <<As I've said before I will not pay a single dime for the replacement.>>
> If this is your official stance here Joel, I will take it as such and
> you will NOT receive your car back until the balance is paid in full and
if
> we don't receive FULL payment of $324 within 30 days, we WILL file a small
> claims against this issue. We are fully prepared to deal with customers
who
> refuse to pay their bills for service rendered! This is YOUR choice
here...
>
> <<This is not negotiable - period.>>
> I'm sorry you feel this way, but read my above response to this-
> period! Your demanding attitude and defiance to pay your bill will
> certainly NOT get you anywhere positive with this company and we already
> have protocols to deal with situations like this.....
>
> <<If you want to go the route of Attorneys, subpeonas, depositions etc. to
> get at the facts - I will.>>
> As I stated earlier, you have 30 days to take care of this bill,
> otherwise WE will take legal action, as it makes absolutely no difference
> to me what so ever on which path you choose to tread down.... YOU make
that
> choice and we'll eagerly respond either way to fullest legal extent
> possible. Your threats may have worked on other's in the past to get your
> way, but it is absolutely meaningless here.......
>
> <<The ball is in your court Phil.>>
> Quite the contrary Joel and I strongly suggest you choose wisely....
>
> <<I think you've already given yourself, and DynoTech, a black eye.>>
> Once again Joel, I'll have to enlighten you on what is really going on
> here again by attaching ALL the emails I've sent you to date just to
remind
> you of what we have tried to do for you that has gone in vain due to your
> attitude. DTE and myself have extended a helping hand to you multiple
times
> over the last few weeks, only to have you bite it and demand more and make
> false, inaccurate claims against DTE time and time again.
>
> <<I don't think Exedy, Carolina Clutch or your mechanics will be very
happy
> with the time required of them; especially since they are probably aware
of
> other similar failures....... and maybe more.>>
> Heh, heh, ha, ha, ha! Your inaccurate and incorrect assumptions of the
> mattter to try and validate your bogus claims are getting to be very
> amusing and if that is all you have is inaccurate assumtions on what you
> *think* is happing, or has happened with these clutches, than I would
> strongly reconsider your angle on the issue........
My relationship
with
> Carolina Clutch, Exedy and my employees goes deeper than you could
> possibly know and despite what you are trying to convince yourself of, our
> business relationship with BOTH companies AND my employees is VERY strong,
> thank you.
>
>
> As I said before, your car is ready, washed up, vacuumed out and wiped
> down, ready to go for you anytime and the new clutch feels as good as the
> first. You can pick it up anytime during regular business hours and the
> final invoice is $324. We are still willing to work with you in any way we
> can, but we now stand SOLID on this issue. We'll park you car safely in
the
> corner and cover it up to keep it from dust until this is settled. DTE,
> nor myself are not the enemy here Joel, as we have only tried to help you
> though this whole thing (and still are trying) hopefully, you'll see that
> soon. Have a nice day and be sure to respond in a prompt fashion. :-)
>
> BTW- See attached emails below of ALL of the recent past regarding this
> issue. I encourage you to take a long look at them to see what we've
> been trying to do for you all along. :-)
>
> <snip>
> Hi Joel,
> I've never heard of a clutch that "starts" to vibrate after mileage, as
> they either do right away when they are installed (which that one didn't)
> or they don't at all. We've successfully sold and installed over 21 of
> these units to be used in HP applications and none of them has ever had a
> problem at all to our knowledge, so I'm curious to know why this one just
> started to, espeacially after it left here operating flawlessly.
>
> We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.
>
> Give me a call when you get a chance and we'll go from there. Have a good
> night.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil Rickard
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Corvette
> We had a lengthy conversation this morning with our company's legal
council
> regarding this evolving issue and under his advisement, we are now only to
> accept a bank cashier's check, Federal money order or bank fund wire
> transfer at this juncture in the amount of $324.00 payable to Dynotech
> Engineering, Inc. ANY other form of payment is NOT accepted. Thank you and
> have a nice day.
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil- Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <phil@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "dkoch7" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Corvette Completion- response
> Joel,
> Sometimes it becomes clearly obvious to a company that no matter what is
> done for a customer to try to give them good customer service and the
> willingness to bend over backwards for them multiple times, that there is
> just NOTHING that can be done to make them happy... In this case, this is
> referring to you.
>
> I am going to present you with the ACCURATE FACTS once again, as it seems
> like you consistently choose to forget them (or ignore them for whatever
> reason) to try and validate your claim and refusal to pay a bill that is
> NOT unfounded or fraudulent.
>
> FACT 1: Shortly after this issue started, I clearly stated to you multiple
> times in emails, the protocol on what we were going to do and how we would
> handle the various types of scenarios depending on what we found upon
> disassembly. You took immediate defense of our common, standard policy
that
> EVERYONE else abides by and chose to ignore it for whatever reason, even
> though we hadn't even seen the car to make an evaluation.
>
> FACT 2:You stated I had an attitude...I had none, just stating our policy
> in a very professional manner.
>
> FACT 3: You stated that we were refusing to take responsibility...we did
> not make that claim upon initial emails of the issue, but you assumed that
> was the case and convinced yourself otherwise.
>
> FACT 4: After disassembly, I sent you, Exedy and Carolina Clutch pictures
> of the burnt clutch from the car and explained very clearly on how it
could
> of occurred and you immediately you stated that it was our/Exedy's fault
> for the clutch failure...even though you admitted to slipping the clutch
to
> park the car on an incline prior to the disassembly.
>
> FACT 5: What you don't know is that I went to bat for you with Exedy to
try
> and get something done that very day we took it apart and then sent you an
> email explaining that Exedy AND DTE were willing to help you. Instead, you
> went behind my back and spoke to Bruce that very day and bad mouthed me
and
> my company to him before you even read the email and then had the audacity
> not to even acknowledge with any type of contact what we were going to do
> for you to try and help you nor a common thank you or anything. In fact,
> after I stated to you in my emails that I sent everyone involved copies of
> our emails conversations, you immediately refrained in communicating any
> more other than just one or two sentence emails since you knew that they
> would see everything you said. Instead you still remained defiant and
> demanding despite what we had done for you with Exedy and what DTE was
> offering you as a fair break.
>
> FACT 6: When we found out that Exedy was going to replace the clutch at no
> charge to you, DTE also offered to split the installation labor with you
as
> a gesture of customer satisfaction, even though we had no obligation to do
> anything due to the severe clutch abuse that was found upon disassembly.
> You were informed of the protocol multiple times before we even got to
this
> point, but you chose to ignore them and do what "you want" regardless of
> standard policy that was made VERY CLEAR to you.
>
> FACT 7: As I told you in a past email last Friday 7-2-04, we were not even
> going to put your car into our schedule to get at the car to install the
> replacement clutch until Thursday 7-8-04, but we had a break in the shop,
> so we got right at your car EARLY so YOU could have it sooner. The car was
> completed two days ahead of schedule and you were informed of its early
> completion promptly. An email was sent to you informing you of this and
you
> NEVER responded... This was not enough for you either.....
>
> FACT 8: We installed ANOTHER new pilot bearing AND release bearing AGAIN
> just for good measure, even though we didn't have to, just to make sure
> everything was right for YOU. We didn't charge you for this either, even
> though we had the right to...
>
> FACT 9: Now, after all that we have done for you in getting this taken
care
> of in the quickest, cleanest manner possible, you still remain defiant and
> refuse to pay a bill that is more than a generous gesture of good customer
> service towards you and you STILL are demanding of even MORE.....
>
> FACT 10: Exedy has NEVER had a clutch failure of this type by ANYONE after
> a few hundred of them sold and now you step up and say that the clutch
> "just failed"???? The issue becomes VERY clear here on where the problem
> lies... Not the clutch, not the installer, but the driver..... The
> statistics are NOT in your favor here Joel and it is very suspicious that
> YOU are the ONLY one having problems with these clutches........
>
>
> The bottom line is this Joel, DTE has gone above and beyond what we had to
> do to take care of this in the simplest, cleanest fashion possible and
have
> extended you every possible gesture of customer satisfaction, but it still
> is not enough... We even stayed late (9pm) just for you when you picked it
> up the first time, even though you stated that you would be there by 9pm,
> but got there 1/2 hour late..... We didn't say anything, but stayed until
> you arrived to help YOU!!!!!
>
> We made everything clear to you up front before we began on how we would
> handle the matter depending on what we found on disassembly so that you
> were perfectly clear on the matter.
>
> We went to Exedy for YOU to try and help the situation and get something
> done, even though you bad mouthed DTE repeatedly during the whole time we
> were working for YOU.
>
> We installed new components AGAIN just to insure everything was right for
> YOU at NO CHARGE to YOU.
>
> We offered to split the installation labor, even though we had no
> obligation to and you REFUSED to meet us halfway.
>
> YOU burned the clutch up Joel, we didn't and we will not take
> responsibility for your negligence in not breaking it in properly and
> slipping it excessively. That clutch left here in smooth working order and
> was operating as designed and it wasn't until you abused it by slipping it
> excessively that all the problems stated to arise.
>
> <<As I've said before I will not pay a single dime for the replacement.>>
> If this is your official stance here Joel, I will take it as such and
> you will NOT receive your car back until the balance is paid in full and
if
> we don't receive FULL payment of $324 within 30 days, we WILL file a small
> claims against this issue. We are fully prepared to deal with customers
who
> refuse to pay their bills for service rendered! This is YOUR choice
here...
>
> <<This is not negotiable - period.>>
> I'm sorry you feel this way, but read my above response to this-
> period! Your demanding attitude and defiance to pay your bill will
> certainly NOT get you anywhere positive with this company and we already
> have protocols to deal with situations like this.....
>
> <<If you want to go the route of Attorneys, subpeonas, depositions etc. to
> get at the facts - I will.>>
> As I stated earlier, you have 30 days to take care of this bill,
> otherwise WE will take legal action, as it makes absolutely no difference
> to me what so ever on which path you choose to tread down.... YOU make
that
> choice and we'll eagerly respond either way to fullest legal extent
> possible. Your threats may have worked on other's in the past to get your
> way, but it is absolutely meaningless here.......
>
> <<The ball is in your court Phil.>>
> Quite the contrary Joel and I strongly suggest you choose wisely....
>
> <<I think you've already given yourself, and DynoTech, a black eye.>>
> Once again Joel, I'll have to enlighten you on what is really going on
> here again by attaching ALL the emails I've sent you to date just to
remind
> you of what we have tried to do for you that has gone in vain due to your
> attitude. DTE and myself have extended a helping hand to you multiple
times
> over the last few weeks, only to have you bite it and demand more and make
> false, inaccurate claims against DTE time and time again.
>
> <<I don't think Exedy, Carolina Clutch or your mechanics will be very
happy
> with the time required of them; especially since they are probably aware
of
> other similar failures....... and maybe more.>>
> Heh, heh, ha, ha, ha! Your inaccurate and incorrect assumptions of the
> mattter to try and validate your bogus claims are getting to be very
> amusing and if that is all you have is inaccurate assumtions on what you
> *think* is happing, or has happened with these clutches, than I would
> strongly reconsider your angle on the issue........
My relationshipwith
> Carolina Clutch, Exedy and my employees goes deeper than you could
> possibly know and despite what you are trying to convince yourself of, our
> business relationship with BOTH companies AND my employees is VERY strong,
> thank you.
>
>
> As I said before, your car is ready, washed up, vacuumed out and wiped
> down, ready to go for you anytime and the new clutch feels as good as the
> first. You can pick it up anytime during regular business hours and the
> final invoice is $324. We are still willing to work with you in any way we
> can, but we now stand SOLID on this issue. We'll park you car safely in
the
> corner and cover it up to keep it from dust until this is settled.
DTE,> nor myself are not the enemy here Joel, as we have only tried to help you
> though this whole thing (and still are trying) hopefully, you'll see that
> soon. Have a nice day and be sure to respond in a prompt fashion.
:-)>
> BTW- See attached emails below of ALL of the recent past regarding this
> issue.
I encourage you to take a long look at them to see what we've> been trying to do for you all along. :-)
>
> <snip>
> Hi Joel,
> I've never heard of a clutch that "starts" to vibrate after mileage, as
> they either do right away when they are installed (which that one didn't)
> or they don't at all. We've successfully sold and installed over 21 of
> these units to be used in HP applications and none of them has ever had a
> problem at all to our knowledge, so I'm curious to know why this one just
> started to, espeacially after it left here operating flawlessly.
>
> We're certainly willing to take a look at it to see what could possibly be
> wrong, if anything and if it is our workmanship mistake, or possible
> premature component failure, then we'll stand behind it. If there is
> nothing found to be wrong upon disassembly, or if
abuse/overheating/burning
> is found, then we will not assume replacement costs. It's just our
standard
> policy on any type of service or components we install and sell here at
> DTE, especially with clutch components.
>
> Give me a call when you get a chance and we'll go from there. Have a good
> night.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Phil Rickard
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dynotech Engineering, Inc." <info@dynotech-eng.com>
To: "Joel Koch" <DKOCH7@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Corvette
> We had a lengthy conversation this morning with our company's legal
council
> regarding this evolving issue and under his advisement, we are now only to
> accept a bank cashier's check, Federal money order or bank fund wire
> transfer at this juncture in the amount of $324.00 payable to Dynotech
> Engineering, Inc. ANY other form of payment is NOT accepted. Thank you and
> have a nice day.
>
>
> Best Regards and God Bless,
> Dynotech Engineering, Inc.
> PH. (260)407-5455
> FX. (260)407-5457
> www.dynotech-eng.com
>
11-28-2004, 08:20 PM
#5
I guess we should hear the other side. But, you have presented a well done case. People make bad judgements sometimes and should just say they are sorry and cut their loses. We'll see the response or lack of, I guess....
11-28-2004, 08:34 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: Winston Salem NC
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joel,
It seems they took an "it's not my fault position" right from the start. How could they determine the cause of the problem with that approach. It is arrogant and downright foolish to think "it can't be my fault". I've been in business a long time and certainly we make our share of mistakes. Our first concern is to satisfy the customer and then to determine how do we avoid the same issue again.
Sorry you had to go through this. We all love our cars. Glad all is good again.
Joe
It seems they took an "it's not my fault position" right from the start. How could they determine the cause of the problem with that approach. It is arrogant and downright foolish to think "it can't be my fault". I've been in business a long time and certainly we make our share of mistakes. Our first concern is to satisfy the customer and then to determine how do we avoid the same issue again.
Sorry you had to go through this. We all love our cars. Glad all is good again.
Joe
11-28-2004, 08:43 PM
#9
Drifting
Originally Posted by gojo
Joel,
It seems they took an "it's not my fault position" right from the start. How could they determine the cause of the problem with that approach. It is arrogant and downright foolish to think "it can't be my fault".
It seems they took an "it's not my fault position" right from the start. How could they determine the cause of the problem with that approach. It is arrogant and downright foolish to think "it can't be my fault".
Wow what a royal PITA. Nothing like dropping 8 large and get that type of treatment.
11-28-2004, 08:44 PM
#10
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks Joe.
As you know Phil attacked from the get go. A one week install turned into almost 3 months of aggravation. AND he extorted my car!! All the while knowing where they screwed up.
Definitely a poor business man.
3 Warm Weather Months!!!!!
As you know Phil attacked from the get go. A one week install turned into almost 3 months of aggravation. AND he extorted my car!! All the while knowing where they screwed up.
Definitely a poor business man.
3 Warm Weather Months!!!!!
11-28-2004, 08:46 PM
#11
Safety Car
Member Since: Sep 2002
Location: Aurora IL
Posts: 3,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06
I am really sorry for your problems and thank you for telling your story. 
Oh and for what it is worth, when I had my twin clutch put in FLP made me break it in for 500 miles before my car was put on the rollers ( I had a base tune)
Oh and for what it is worth, when I had my twin clutch put in FLP made me break it in for 500 miles before my car was put on the rollers ( I had a base tune)
11-28-2004, 09:00 PM
#12
Racer
Member Since: Sep 2004
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I spent many years in the parts business....you see it from your side...they see it from theres.
You say you didn't slip the clutch.....they have never seen a customer who would admit to slipping the clutch.
No win situation for either party.
Just my opinion.
You say you didn't slip the clutch.....they have never seen a customer who would admit to slipping the clutch.
No win situation for either party.
Just my opinion.
11-28-2004, 09:11 PM
#13
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Blown
I spent many years in the parts business....you see it from your side...they see it from theres.
You say you didn't slip the clutch.....they have never seen a customer who would admit to slipping the clutch.
No win situation for either party.
Just my opinion.
You say you didn't slip the clutch.....they have never seen a customer who would admit to slipping the clutch.
No win situation for either party.
Just my opinion.
I did not slip the clutch - period. I drove it the same as my stock Z06 clutch. Shouldn't a racing clutch last longer than a stock clutch?? It was installed improperly - read part A for the complete story.
11-28-2004, 09:13 PM
#14
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Z06GMAN
I am really sorry for your problems and thank you for telling your story.
Oh and for what it is worth, when I had my twin clutch put in FLP made me break it in for 500 miles before my car was put on the rollers ( I had a base tune)
Oh and for what it is worth, when I had my twin clutch put in FLP made me break it in for 500 miles before my car was put on the rollers ( I had a base tune)
11-28-2004, 09:28 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
From what you are telling us you called DTE to tell them you were having a problem with your recently installed clutch less than a week after picking the car up. They suggested that the problem must be because you had abused it?
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. It undoubtly created hard feelings from the get go. It would have with me too. Not a good way to handle customer relations. The first response should have been to assess the problem, not the blame.
Just a side note however. If someone wanted to sell me a high pressure, dual disk clutch designed to handle hundreds of rear wheel HP, I would consider the products quality to suspect if it could not handle a slight amount of slip in a parking lot.
If it can't handle the slip encountered when parking the car how the hell is it going to handle 5000 RPM at the track when I drop the hammer on it in the staging lanes? I would not expect to have to baby such a product.
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. It undoubtly created hard feelings from the get go. It would have with me too. Not a good way to handle customer relations. The first response should have been to assess the problem, not the blame.
Just a side note however. If someone wanted to sell me a high pressure, dual disk clutch designed to handle hundreds of rear wheel HP, I would consider the products quality to suspect if it could not handle a slight amount of slip in a parking lot.
If it can't handle the slip encountered when parking the car how the hell is it going to handle 5000 RPM at the track when I drop the hammer on it in the staging lanes? I would not expect to have to baby such a product.
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
11-28-2004, 09:45 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by LeMansBlue04
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
Especially after what carolina clutch told you.
11-28-2004, 09:48 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by LeMansBlue04
From what you are telling us you called DTE to tell them you were having a problem with your recently installed clutch less than a week after picking the car up. They suggested that the problem must be because you had abused it?
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. It undoubtly created hard feelings from the get go. It would have with me too. Not a good way to handle customer relations. The first response should have been to assess the problem, not the blame.
Just a side note however. If someone wanted to sell me a high pressure, dual disk clutch designed to handle hundreds of rear wheel HP, I would consider the products quality to suspect if it could not handle a slight amount of slip in a parking lot.
If it can't handle the slip encountered when parking the car how the hell is it going to handle 5000 RPM at the track when I drop the hammer on it in the staging lanes? I would not expect to have to baby such a product.
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. It undoubtly created hard feelings from the get go. It would have with me too. Not a good way to handle customer relations. The first response should have been to assess the problem, not the blame.
Just a side note however. If someone wanted to sell me a high pressure, dual disk clutch designed to handle hundreds of rear wheel HP, I would consider the products quality to suspect if it could not handle a slight amount of slip in a parking lot.
If it can't handle the slip encountered when parking the car how the hell is it going to handle 5000 RPM at the track when I drop the hammer on it in the staging lanes? I would not expect to have to baby such a product.
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
11-28-2004, 09:49 PM
#18
Resident moron
I haven't read this yet, but did you REALLY have to create 3 seperate threads on the same topic? Why not put all of the info in one thread? Ugh, no one wants to be chasing around 3 threads to get all the info/replies.
Dope
Dope
11-28-2004, 09:53 PM
#19
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by LeMansBlue04
From what you are telling us you called DTE to tell them you were having a problem with your recently installed clutch less than a week after picking the car up. They suggested that the problem must be because you had abused it?
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. ......
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
If true, this was not a smart move on their part. ......
I think DTE should refund your $324, say we are sorry and mean it, and then go take a close look at how they deal with customer relations.
I spent the better part of two Saturdays dropping off and picking up the Vette - because of their ineptitude. Not counting the expected 2 round trips.
I initially take the car there ( now they've "got me") and then thay say ..oh, not one week it'll be two and a half weeks. Then ...Oh we don't have 4.10s how about 3.73s. Bait and switch??
I want absolutely nothing from Phil Rickard. I want my fellow CorvetteForum members to be informed. Remember, I spent around $8000 with Phil Rickard as he screwed my clutch up and then extorted another $324 for it's prompt return. Where are his business ethics??
Should he (DynoTech Engineering) be a Forum Vendor - preying on the less knowing?? That's the real question???
11-28-2004, 09:58 PM
#20
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Dope
I haven't read this yet, but did you REALLY have to create 3 seperate threads on the same topic? Why not put all of the info in one thread? Ugh, no one wants to be chasing around 3 threads to get all the info/replies.
Dope
Dope
The number of words in a post is restricted. I wanted to provide the FACTS- including applicable emails. The only way I could do it (that I could see) was to provide a separate Email documentation thread. Then the site said Part B was too long and I had to set up Parts B and Part C for the emails.
If you start with Part A it is linked at the botton to Part B. Same as with B - linked to Part C at the bottom of the page.
joel
