dvarapala

Things like this are why people hate car dealers.

I think we can all understand and agree with a policy of keeping a customer's deposit when the customer orders something oddball that will be difficult to sell. The longer a car sits on the dealer's lot, the more floorplan costs the dealer will accrue; keeping the customer's deposit will help to offset that added expense.

However, AFAIK Chad did not order any sort of "oddball" combination (like a Millennium Yellow McVette with red seats) - there is no indication that Maxie Price will have any difficulty whatsoever selling Chad's car when it comes in. So why are they keeping Chad's deposit? What financial losses will they incur as the result of his order cancellation?

Seems to me that a reasonable person would say "no harm, no foul" and return Chad's deposit in full.

The bottom line is this:

Is it legal to keep the deposit? Sure. Chad signed the contract.

Is it fair, ethical, moral, or even reasonable? No.

Another point to consider is that this is not the only incident involving MP that has come up in this forum. Things like failure to deliver on a promised $1000 rebate (until pressured by the forum), $500 "doc fees," and misleading advertising are all forming a pretty clear picture of the way MP treats its customers.

Maxie Price's policy is to needlessly keep a customer's deposit. My policy is to never do business with people like Maxie Price.

docrings1

c2c4c6

You are wrong. Though the contract stated that the deposit was non-refundable, the law would imply that this clause is enforceable upon delivery of the automobile within a reasonable time-frame, unless a specific date for delivery was written in the contract. Verts were originally scheduled to be produced starting in October. If the order was placed before then and the dates now being given are March or so, I submit that is an unreasonable delay. In addition, according to what was said, 5 different TPW's have been changed. The buyer is entitled to a refund under these circumstances. But, even apart from that, you would think that a dealer in this day and age wouldn't be so short-sighted as to try and milk ever penny out of someone who acted in good faith and attempted to purchase a car, and through no fault of his own was placed in a position where there was still no firm delivery date established at this late date.

toolking

IMHO In light of the now released information that power top cars won't be available until Mar - Apr it would seem to me that 1. MP can change the order to get a "saleable' car and 2. since they cannot deliver a car in a timely manner that they are morally responsible to refund his deposit sold car or not.

I bet a sharp local Atty could take these folks apart. Chad if you feel you need an Atty let me know I know a good one.

JWD01

But what do you expect from a dealer that charges $500 (doc. fee) to fill out paperwork that they are already paid to fill out in the first place. Some dealers charge $35, most dealers don't charge at all. Personally, I wouldn't buy from a dealership that charges a doc. fee because it's a pretty good example of what their priorities are (MONEY) and what their business practice is (screw you out of every possible penny).

Charles7Mitchell

There is a valuable lesson here and Chad and many others are fortunate to receive it so cheaply. I once signed to buy a house, but the owner had not moved by the possession date. I wanted to look elsewhere, but was told that there was no clause in the contract that stated that 'Time is of the essence'. Whether we like it or not, if time of delivery was important to Chad it should have been written into the contract. As was stated in another post, if challenged it would be up to a judge to decide, and going in that direction can be expensive. Chad signed the contract. He can ask the other party to cancel it, but if they don't then he has to live with it or challenge it. This is the real world.

Low12s

What ever happened to integrity?

Corvette50

As one member mentioned above, is the dealer actually going to be out anything? That won't be known until the car is delivered and sold. From the way sales have been going, it may not even sit on their lot one day if someone else jumps on the order. Sooner or later I hope some sales information will be posted on this forum.

I think it would be good business practice to refund the deposit now. The amount of goodwill they are losing on this forum outweighs the deposit money.

Ironically, my vert was sitting at 3000 for 12/6 and is now at 2650 for 1/17. Very convenient that it is at 2650. Let's see if it actually gets built that week. My contract has a delivery date no later than 2/28, but I was told I'd have it around Christmas. I have no intention of cancelling my order unless the 2/28 date is not met. Then I would expect my 10K back.

I admire the fact that Steve is stating what he believes and is willing to stand up for that. Forum members when banded together can exert influence. Anytime someone posts something controversial, there will be opinions on both sides. I'm sure Monica and MP will both read or be apprised of the opinions posted here.

Hurricane

I'm glad that Troy allows some discussion like this on the forum, as long as both sides are allowed to present what happened, and why.

I have long considered using a forum dealer but one of my number one concerns is trust. I won't deal with a vendor that I do not trust, particularly for the kind of $ we are talking about when buying a new Vette. Hearing about issues (which are always bound to come up) and how they are resolved helps build trust, or at least an image that builds faith in a dealer many miles away. If the forum white-washed (and censored) these discussions, I might see only one side of the story and that would do little to generate confidence in the vendor.

I've been on the forum for 5 1/2 years and have bought from vendors before. I didn't use a forum dealer last time when I bought my Vette because I received a better deal where I was at and time was not a factor. I am seriously considering using a forum dealer this time, though.

In my humble opinion, Maxie Price Chevy is entitled to keep the deposit. However, the details surrounding the delay (although not the dealership's fault), make returning the deposit the "right" thing to do. If the car could be sold (and I doubt they would have a problem doing this), then I think Maxie Price should return the depost, in good faith. In light of the recent post concerning GM's reaction to vendor problems with the power-top 'vert, Maxie Price should return the deposit. This would be the ethical thing to do and would increase good will whereas keeping the deposit only hurts the image of their dealership and future sales.

Again, it's about trust and doing the right thing. I hope that this is resolved in the way that it should be.

ROKNBLU

I believe GM needs to improve their order / allocation /constraint process with their dealers. And offer buyers incentives if the cars are not delivered on time.

I understand the dealer should not be burned or take a loss, but neither should the customer.

These dealer contracts appear so one sided, in protecting the dealer, with no regard to delivering a car on time to the serious buying customer.

Incentives? for example, GM / Dealer reduce the price to the buyer by $100 per day for every day they are late in delivery.

shopdog

As Reagan used to say, "Trust but verify."

When I order a car, I make sure that the contract contains a hard deliver by date. That way, the contract is void if the promised vehicle is not delivered by that date, and any deposit must be refunded. If a particular dealer won't write that into the contract, I won't do business with him. I started insisting on this 30 years ago after being burned by another Atlanta area dealer in a way similar to how Chad was burned.

I've found that some dealers won't alter their stock contract. I don't do business with them. Others will, and they get my business. This is a good way to weed out the good dealers from the bad right up front. An ethical dealer won't have any trouble agreeing to such a contract.

That said, special orders are always a pain, both for the buyer and the seller. I much prefer to buy from stock. That sometimes means scouring the country for a dealer who has what I want. Dealing with a distant dealer can present another set of problems. If you can't go make the transaction in person, you're still dependent on their ethics and honesty to deliver the car that they promised. I bought my present car from a dealer 400 miles away. I went there to conduct the transaction and take delivery rather than trust the dealer sight unseen.

Hurricane

I do the same thing...

TedG

This is such crap, I'm sorry but I could see keeping someones deposit if it were a car that would not sell. but let's face it That black Vette will go quickly. All here know that they will take every car allocated to them, this one included. Want to hear the right solution? You are getting it weather you like it or not . Keep the deposit until the car is sold. Then return it. It is a matter of good will not only to Chad, but to the rest of us potential buyers.
My dealer may charge more, but never in a million years would they keep the deposit on a Vette. They have more integrity than that. IMHO

Dave@Ciocca

I can't speak for what transpired between Monica and Chad, but I can answer the above question.

Yes, we have the same non-refundable clause on our contract, but every contract has a date that we guarantee the delivery by. If the date on the contract comes and goes and there is still no delivery of the car, then we will, if requested, refund the deposit.

twolayz

B4 i ordered a vette from a local dealer i called MP. They wanted 5000 over MSRP, but because i was calling from out of town they would give me MSRP. Big deal dont need em for that. Talkingabout DOC FEE., Lou Bachrodt wanted 686.00 dollars for an 04 2 months ago.

123vette456

Ladies and Gentlemen are we not losing sight of the issue as Maxie certainly has? Even if they are legally correct -- look at the loss of business and ill will fostered by failing to return the $1000. deposit. If they lose only one sale from from this incident, the profit they lose is more than the $1000. deposit they kept. They have cut off their nose to spite their face and are certainly penny wise but pound foolish.
Big mistake Maxie. Right or wrong--Big Mistake.

TedG

That is not a bad policy IMHO, The customer has a reasonable expectation of a delivery date. If GM can't or won't deliver, the contract is with the dealer not GM.

c6nut

Maxi is a Forum Dealer which Monica sells for. The company she represents is unethical and unscrupulous. Maxi benefits from her sales to forum members. I say they get thrown off the forum and we deal with real dealers like Ken, Dave and Marvin. This is not the way a dealer should do business. Also, I am sure they can sell the car for a profit. Why not keep the customer happy and not lose him or her. Look at the bad taste it has left in everyone's mouth on this forum. Monica, do you think anyone would buy a car from your company now? I would not.

For the record, in Illinois where I am from they made it ILLEGAL to keep a deposit on a car if the customer requests a refund even if it is being built.
The people sticking up for Maxi are all sheep. Keep being followers not leaders. Our Government likes that.

hlv

The dealer did NOT break they do not tell when you will get your
car. They have no way of knowing when a car will be made!
They take your order and wait, just like everyone else.
I'm sure that if Chad waited long enought he would get his vert.

JWD01

So are you're saying that even if GM decides not to build power top cars until 2007 because of supplier problems, tech. problems, earthquakes, etc., he has to wait another year and still is not entitled to a refund?