Many years ago most of us didn't care about numbers or codes. I bought a 69 Camaro big block car with no motor or trans for 500 bucks back in 1974. It had some body damage on the drivers side. Bought it from a guy at the local welding shop . Later he told me it had been a special order 427 car from a dealership in N J. Well so what. I wanted a Z 28 so that's what it was made into. Except for the L 79 327.

 

I had two of the most classic Z28s, and I am a small block guy, but a Dealer done 427 is a tasty morsel. That kind of originality of your car might make a guy like me pause. Hard to say. I wrestle with returning Dad's 1968 Dana Corvette back to Day1 Dealer Modified, so I might replicate it using my 1968 to have both versions. I show it in the early pages of this thread with the a few Baldwin cars. I have two bastard cars, my Corvette race car is a 1964 Vin, but has a gaggle of 1963 trim not my doing, and that Grand Sport Dash with the authentic 200 mph speedo, is going into that car, etc. My 1963 Autocross Corvette has most of 1963 removed. My 1965 El Camino is a cross of 1964-67 parts, whatever I liked the best, my doing. My single seat Formula car- 1969 Beach MK5C is becoming a Porsche, from parts I had after selling my Porsche 914 w/Chevy V8 (35 years ago). Everything I own is Frankensteined in one way or another. I am glad like minded people exist, but then I do my part on the purity of our beloved Corvette's history, to attempt to share whatever I am in the mood to share. Thanks for the real guy, interaction, even if off topic. So what Dealership?

 

I don't remember the dealership name.. I guess I wasn't gonna do anything about it so I didn't pay attention. My usual rule for the last 40 years or so is, if it has the original engine keep it, if not it doesn't matter any way. My 65 corvette lost it's original drive train in the late 60,s so it,s got a warmed up 454 ,wide Muncie and 3:36's. I bought an1970 Olds F85 off a local car lot in 1973 that was a factory W-31. It was a total stripper, no PS no carpet, bench seat .I found it had been set up for drag racing at some time. If you drove it like you stole it it rocked. The kid across the street wanted to buy it and since it was in need of paint work and took some oil, I sold it to him for 1600. If I had kept it I would have put a 455 in it. Back 1n 2018 I was in contact with my former neighbor and asked him about the Olds. He says he still has it and would I like to see it? SURE. His Mom had passed and it was in her garage across the street from my old house. So we checked all the codes and engine #s ,trans and rear. ALL original drive train. It escaped being roached by me due to the sale. If you think Vette parts are hard to find ,try to find W-31 parts. In the trim ( model F85 two door sedan) and strpped down they only made a little over 200 .

 

So some old timer was sharing that known cars were stored in different warehouses at Warren, at Milford, at St. Louis and when someone came looking for some of those, they were gone. Therefore someone either was close to the janitor or had their own set of keys. But let me get back to the sharing. That conversation happened, because a lot of that was happening within these ZL1 related stories.

Also any Internet search (conventional or even AI) now causes even the made up stories to pop up, like the 1969 Orange Convertible Maher car is all over the internet as the 2nd Production one, regardless of all of our efforts. I tested the AI which you can actual prompt it to create whatever bullcrap story you want to put out. Dangerous, but if you work with it honestly, it can go through thousands of Websites faster than me the human. You kind of have to know a lot about true history, or it will plug in made up crap. To go deeper, you have to coach it, as on what it returns on the surface is less than impressive. I see a few cars with big claims and I already see the manipulation of information to fix the claim, or parts are being sourced to fit the story to make the claim on a car, that isn't what it says it was! Honestly you car flippers should not start into your made up stories to early, as often I find the before and after versions.

Take like 1968 L88 development, pretty much the AIR Corvette Team of James Garner are the earliest L88s known and extremely historical in the scheme of things. The car presented to the FIA had to be the Production model, not a Pilot line, not a prototype, etc. etc. Therefore the 1968 White Zora car, was stock L88 except for the install of a ZL1 engine, when submittal to Homologate it happened.

 

I have a 2013 GS Corvette Convertible, 6sp manual, Color Super Sonic Blue (GLB)with RPO 34T Blue Wagon Top. I have verified as much as I can. I have gone through my build information and they state this car should not exist, yet I have it. All the numbers match. I do believe it is One of one. The facts are, paint code was not listed for 2013, production of the color ended Nov 2012. Only 58 GS GLB SS Blue for 2013, very few were manual. None are listed in the production data that I have researched. My production number 102794 indicates early build in the 2013 models. The data I have shows none were made this way. Normal color top is Black, but mine is Blue just like

the data RPO square in glove box, so must have been a special order. Can anyone help me with the rarity.

 

I have no clue about gauging the newer models, I would think the counts, etc should be better documented than back in the day. The question as to whether one of a kind is rare. I am sure many viewing are trying to where the dividing line is. I like tend to favor race cars, but have attempted to become a one source place where someone can possibly see rare or historic cars can be listed. Not one thought of doing this as a Commercial venture.

if you want to edit in a breakdown of C6 rare models, give us a count, what led to a unique model coming into existence. I for one am lacking in knowledge about the modern ones. I kind of dont consider just Color combos are going to make my thread here.

 

I contributed alot to ZL1, think I covered the guist!!!! I will probably add more, and I am not verifying ZL1 engines going into L88, and am super skeptical of like my Dad's friend Otis's White ZL1, I am removing it listed as a ZL1 car (Dealer install I feel), same for like the Red Scuncio car, and Messersmitts car, etc etc. . Here since I have everything, let me throw up another Famed article, as I have them all, but I am contemplating diving into L88, like program numbers, and cars like this Homologation L88 ride. I eould have to sort things on the side, as a lot of info. I also would like to get back to filling the gap on CERVII and adding more to timeline.

 

Work week has been hectic. Seems finding time for this worthless effort, just gets harder and harder to find time to asd content. Good night! The 1969 LLC (Long Lead Corvette mule #2 with its Purdy skunk stripe at Black Lake!

 

Quick post, the other revelation and I won't have time to dive in and share this morning, but I 100% don't believe the 94 built Corvette designated engines story is accurate. As they were gearing up for a potential 101 engines total as 100 is a FIA Homologation level requirement, 7 engines (2 began the known St Louis installed production ones, out of the WO#19711 batch. Therefore 7 plus 94 is 101 or one to boot. Looking at the Chevrolet documents, work orders and such, it appears it got designated on paper, but they just were never stamped as ZL1 was cancelled. That strike messed up a lot of plans, 1969 Production of just two cars was a happenstance thing! Think about it, the production year usually would have been over, if not for the strike. Thus think about the window available or lack of window. In August they extended production longer for 1969, suddenly first ZL1 special arrangement car happened through George Heberling guy. It looks like Zora started the Go plan, and immediately had his legs cut out from under him. The Work Orders I should have and doubt exist, is anything moving those engines for production installation.

I spoke briefly to the Owner of the White/Tan found possible ZL1 #2 (very C3 knowledged, extremely so about C3) but we both had meetings, never finished that chain of discussion. I asked if any of these have been found? Stamped with the two codes, stick (ME) or automatic (MG). Yes definitely production would get stamped, that being two cars, I think the rest these 94 engines, no! I think the cancellation happened and the pads did not get stamped, that they went into the parts system for sale. I think the 94 engines is a myth, except on paper. If any early ones did get stamp coded, then very few Possibly!!!!!!!!!! I don't think I have seen one, but I own a few C3s, but I always leaned more C2 as those are my prized babies and I am just getting into these C3 histories more seriously now! So throw it out challenge, show me an engine from the 94 batch, that got production stamped and never went to the assembly line? I will keep an open mind! Later

 

Corvette crowd is not generous with likes, not that I look for those, as I would have quit this sharing and open discussion long ago if I wanted fame! But you guys seem to like Magazine article shares, as like 4000 views lately added. I can hear you all breathing!

Here:




Well read it bottom to top! Sorry

 

I have throughly enjoyed your posts. A lot of them come from the heyday of my Corvette racing, mid 60s to mid 70s. I always look forward to your posts.

 

TCracingCA— I have seen an 052 block with a real Tonawanda stamp and MG code. A guy at Corvette Carlisle 3 or 4 years ago was selling 2 or 3 052 blocks. One of them had the Tonawanda production stamp. It caught my attention because I wanted to see if it had a vin in it, which would have solved the 2nd car riddle. It did not have a vin, but the Tonawanda stamping was completely authentic. I didn’t give more thought after finding it had no vin because I assumed GM sold complete engines as well as bare blocks over the parts counter and through Motion, etc. I wish I could remember the stamping date, but I did check the casting date and it was a 69 date consistent with the stamping.

Of course this could have been an engine made for a Camaro warrantee replacement that had nothing to do with Duntov’s plans.

 

As the Camaro went out, I have seen Camaro stamped ones, MM and ML (without looking it up). Some Dealerships would build up a warranty replacement, or change a partial engine to meet the application, and the dealership would stamp them with y he application. The famed CE program has quirks, lile the SBC 010 's, they had 2 bolt. 4 bolt, etc and some dealers built these up and advertised them as Corvette engines, Camaro Engines, etc. I am just calling out that I cant find directives, build work orders, etc saying 94 got done that way.I am leaving an open mind, as I dont know everything about everything. I just dont rhink 94 stamped with Corvette Production build codes ever circulated, or we would see more of those. I think we are all blown away learning they were up into the 500+ range in August 1969 casting and machining 052 blocks. It is still interesting to me, everything I share is like trying to solve a murder mystery!

 

Here is a document that shows the 1969 Tonawanda production totals. I have seen a number of ME and MG stamped ZL1 052 blocks. Most have been decked by now. I can't guarantee that all these production totals are 100% accurate. But it is an interesting data point.

 

I am glad you jumped in, as I am trying to not chase my own tail on these claimed 94 engines! I am sure these engines were built and offered from Dealership counters, just as I have not seen these stamping, but two of you claim to have seen these corvette Stampings and just not in the Yellow ZL1!!!!. But I now have you truly appreciated knowledgeable guys thinking about the overall validity of 94 stamped ZL1 engines, and for sale?????? If that many existed, we would have at least 90 more claimed phony orange ZL1 cars at auction for 3 million! Back that many (94) whole engines, there would have been no need to phony stamp a later April 1969 052 block with phony Corvette stampings MG and claim original engine, and that the car got this ZL1 engine December 1968. See where I am going guys, and many of us evaluating this might help this history. I am brutal in my deductions. See why I locked in on this possible myth, maybe with some truth, as their is strong recollection of others seeing these stampings. The original engine in a car is always nice, thus like the Chandler white claimed ZL1 we went to lunch in it, back in the day, I wish I could go pop that hood and see if it has one of those batch of 94 starting the tall tail, but will have to refresh my memory on the engines found and fitted related to the progression as I have every article written on my Dad's Boss, Friend's white claimed ZL1.

 

I am up hiking in my local hills in the morning 2 hours plus waking at 6am!

Contemplating sharing more long lost to the Corvette World Master Program Work order numbers. Just a taste of where I might go. I have shared, but thinking of helping to connect the dots. Just a quick taste for those paying attention! So I shared documents showing a WO# 19635 essentially late L88 chassis/suspension combined with WO# 19638 essentially ZL1 engine!!!! And that became 1968 DuPont Orange ZL1 drag SNS mule car #86071, also shown on the documents!!!!! So what was to be 1970 ZR2 (cancelled, but hypothetical is WO# 19635 chassis/suspension and WO# 19639 LT2). Got it everyone??????? So go back and Zora's project list gives us two experimental cars as an example----88073 race LT1, and 95027 street LT1. I think you now see what I am collating and timeining essentially. So to reassemble this Corvette history I might need to share records that aren't out in public. Like car 58053 which I don't believe it is the exact and correct 1965/66 L88 mule, but just like the phony 1969 Corvette orange car, I don't want to get into my concerns again, but car 58053 Master Work order number WO# 19450, so we,are bridging the gap between 427 HDSP (19450) and 427 ZL1 (19638), so you see where my thoughts to blow this all open for mere mortals idea of mine stems, so give you guys long lost 1968/69 L88 development and cars like 78018, 78027 and what they were, and you can see how the timeline,,sequence progression of not only the Experimental car number runs with the sequencing of the Master Program numbers (Work orders)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok good night, got to sleep now! I will not have you guys take a Pop Quiz yet!!!!!!!!!

PS 94 +7 (19711 batch), plus 2 for Sebring related to DKM's list is 103 engines, so add in Automatics, the Car 86071, see the math is starting to match up, but we are missing 94 Corvette engines! Now good night! Dreaming of ZL1s jumping instead of sheep!

 

One thing to keep in mind is that ME blocks were also used for the camaro ZL1 warranty replacement engines. They didn't all go in Corvettes.

 

Got it. Another piece of the puzzle. I get tempted to study Camaro, but Corvette is pretty time consuming. I also dont have the same level of engineering Documents for Camaro, as I have for Corvette and why I can identify Experimental car numbers, Program numbers and gauge how the history progressed. I have hunted for like 0-Parts, the Genesis for parts, engines, etc. Way earlier than others. Like Zora's White Flared mule, it car number lines up. It was a late fresh 1968 L88 grabbed, as Zora could not use a prototype car for FIA Homologation.
Thanks for sharing such a not common act, and why I like participation.