Poll - Autos vs Manuals on a Roadcourse
09-01-2006, 10:14 AM
#1
Poll - Autos vs Manuals on a Roadcourse
Not trying to start a war here, just trying to find out what the percentages are of autos vs manuals on roadcourses. I've always thought are very few autos of any car on a roadcousre. I know ther are lots of Z06's on roadcourses. And Typically, when I look in a car in the pits at the roadcourses I go to, its a stick.
09-01-2006, 10:19 AM
#2
Drifting
I can think of a few guys that do timetrials events, but not many. Auto probably isn't as efficient and has to reject more heat unless the torque converter locks.
Shifting an auto would be too complicated for me.
Shifting an auto would be too complicated for me.
09-01-2006, 10:34 AM
#3
Originally Posted by UstaB-GS549
I can think of a few guys that do timetrials events, but not many. Auto probably isn't as efficient and has to reject more heat unless the torque converter locks.
Shifting an auto would be too complicated for me.
Shifting an auto would be too complicated for me.
the thought is funny
09-01-2006, 10:39 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
I know several who run auto's in So. Calif and Nor. Calif but it is surely the minority. With the new 6sp that might change some. I drove one at Spring Mt. for two sessions on a warm up afternoon before doing the 2 day class and I was amazed how good it was at downshifting. Not as good as when I get the manual right but better than some of my efforts even after 3 years when I still mess up. Don't be surprised if you start to see more at the track.
Randy
Randy
09-01-2006, 10:47 AM
#5
Drifting
The 6 speed auto in the Z51 car just about matches the final ratio to the 6 speed manual.
The 6 speed auto shifts faster and smother than you can in a manual, hands down. It also matches RPM on down shifts and it will not let you shift into the wrong gear.
I have had all of them and this new 6 speed is the ticket. However, you do loose the interaction.
The 6 speed auto shifts faster and smother than you can in a manual, hands down. It also matches RPM on down shifts and it will not let you shift into the wrong gear.
I have had all of them and this new 6 speed is the ticket. However, you do loose the interaction.
Last edited by rbl; 09-01-2006 at 04:10 PM.
09-01-2006, 10:49 AM
#6
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,094
Received 8,928 Likes
on
5,333 Posts
The problem with an auto is controlling when it downshifts. I had my first experience with one on a road course last week when I had a student with a C5 auto. To control some of the shifting I had him put it into third so it would stop abruptly downshifting at just the wrong time for a novice. Even then it still wanted to downshift right at the wrong time as we came out of the toe of the boot at Watkins. So I had him start pulling it back into second as he came off the brake as we entered the corner. This got rid of the unwanted downshift but replaced it with a somewhat unpredictable downshift on corner entry. Usually when I get a novice with a C5 or C6 manual transmission I have them put the car in 4th gear once we are on the track and concentrate on getting them to drive the line and where to brake and accelerate.
Bill
Bill
09-01-2006, 10:56 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
I have driven about all the systems out there at a track.
I will keep my clutch even when I dick it up - it is better all around and less complicated, mechanically....I am the microprocessor....
But everyone has the choice!
I will keep my clutch even when I dick it up - it is better all around and less complicated, mechanically....I am the microprocessor....
But everyone has the choice!
09-01-2006, 11:47 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Biggest issue is heat. A friend of mine has a C5 A4, and even with a 45,000 btu cooler supplementing the cooler in the radiator he still sees really high temps after 5-10 minutes of hot laps. He then backs off for a couple of laps until the temps come down, then back on it. Obviously it's much better in the winter.
I'd love to drive one of the new A6s; those are sounding better all the time (although you'll take my clutch away from me after prying off my cold, dead, toes)
.
Have a good one,
Mike
I'd love to drive one of the new A6s; those are sounding better all the time (although you'll take my clutch away from me after prying off my cold, dead, toes)
.Have a good one,
Mike
09-01-2006, 12:30 PM
#9
Originally Posted by VetteDrmr
Biggest issue is heat. A friend of mine has a C5 A4, and even with a 45,000 btu cooler supplementing the cooler in the radiator he still sees really high temps after 5-10 minutes of hot laps. He then backs off for a couple of laps until the temps come down, then back on it.
09-01-2006, 01:10 PM
#10
Pro
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Ellicott City Maryland
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heat is the enemy and an auto trans is the accomplice. The C5 and prior had a choice of running full auto and often being in the wrong gear for optimum performance, trying to shift between full auto and 3rd or holding in 3rd and overheating. I now run a C6 paddle shift and it is great for a novice and reduces the temp and gear selection problem; when (if?) I get better with manual I will move to the trans God intended for Corvette's. Even if my line is slower, it's more fun dancing through the gears.
09-01-2006, 01:10 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Mainly it's the fact that an auto tranny is a fluid-driven and controlled system. Most, if not all, of the time on track the tranny won't be in any lock-up mode, so the fluid clutch (torque converter) has to absorb and transmit all of the engine power.
In a manual system, once the clutch has stopped slipping, the temperature comes from the friction of the gear teeth meshing (which the A4 also has). As torque loads go up, this friction goes up as well.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
In a manual system, once the clutch has stopped slipping, the temperature comes from the friction of the gear teeth meshing (which the A4 also has). As torque loads go up, this friction goes up as well.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
09-01-2006, 03:01 PM
#12
Originally Posted by VetteDrmr
Mainly it's the fact that an auto tranny is a fluid-driven and controlled system. Most, if not all, of the time on track the tranny won't be in any lock-up mode, so the fluid clutch (torque converter) has to absorb and transmit all of the engine power.
In a manual system, once the clutch has stopped slipping, the temperature comes from the friction of the gear teeth meshing (which the A4 also has). As torque loads go up, this friction goes up as well.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
In a manual system, once the clutch has stopped slipping, the temperature comes from the friction of the gear teeth meshing (which the A4 also has). As torque loads go up, this friction goes up as well.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
09-01-2006, 03:09 PM
#13
The new autos are getting much more sophisticated with more gears, paddle shifters and software that blips the throttle for you on downshifts. Unless you have a transmission like this, I would much prefer a stick to an auto for road courses or autox.
09-01-2006, 08:05 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
rbl: "The 6 speed auto shifts faster and smother than you can in a manual, hands down. It also matches RPM on down shifts and it will not let you shift into the wrong gear."
I don't know where this comes from but the 6sp auto I drove was not perfect at blips for downshifts. It was close, say 300 rpm but not as good as my best or even average efforts on track after 3 + years. There was some lag as the gear caught which resulted in some nose down shift of weight. Since the shifts are sequential up and down you can still get into a gear that is over or under rev'd if you go further than necessary and mis-judge what you want. It isn't perfect by any measure.
Randy
I don't know where this comes from but the 6sp auto I drove was not perfect at blips for downshifts. It was close, say 300 rpm but not as good as my best or even average efforts on track after 3 + years. There was some lag as the gear caught which resulted in some nose down shift of weight. Since the shifts are sequential up and down you can still get into a gear that is over or under rev'd if you go further than necessary and mis-judge what you want. It isn't perfect by any measure.
Randy
09-02-2006, 07:26 AM
#17
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
Of all the students I have had in the past 3 years only two have had autos. one in a vette and one in a Impalia SS. Man that was like ridding in an aircraft carrier around VIR North.
