novaZkid

hi all,

driving a 2003 z06 stock with RA1's(r888 later maybe), carbo pads, and 04 oem shocks for HPDE's wanting some safety equipment since i'm starting to haul some booty at the track- mainly just summit point for now. used to drive an e30 4 years ago in all advanced groups, just recently got back in HPDE this year in level 2, quickly got back to level 3 and starting to "learn" my limits once again.

anyway, i'm starting to fear for my life and having a hard time just staying IN the seat.

I've read on this forum and a couple others that supposedly the c5 z06 or FRC "hoop" is very strong in a rollover. Some instructors have said this before, but i think i've seen pics of a z06 flattened on the roof before, unless i've mistaken. Is there any data or literature to support this? Is it not an advantage for me to get a welded in roll bar by Piper Motorsport if it is already so strong? If that is the case, then i'll just opt to use some reclining aftermarket seats with or without harnesses depending on how good the lateral support is. I know it is not recommended to use fixed back seats without a roll bar or cage but in the case of the corvette, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go even if the reclining seat were to break in a rollover as opposed to a 911 or even a sports sedan.

also, i'm as short as a vette driver can be- maybe 5''3. would i have an issue seeing over the steering wheel with aftermarket seats? it wasn't an issue in my e30 track car with seats. are there any aftermarket seats that are FIA approved if i go the roll bar route that allow use of the factory sliders ?

Can a Hans be used without a harness/bar/etc.?

here are my following options:

-reclining seats with much more support (sparco milano, etc.)
-fixed back seats with harness bar and harnesses
-fixed back seats with harness bar/harnesses/and Piper welded in half cage
-same as above, but full roll cage(can this be customized in a way so that it can still be safely driven to and from the track?- a truck and trailer is just NOT "wife approval friendly" right now with a new baby and all..........)i've pondered selling the vette and getting a track only e36 m3 with some sort of tow rig, but not an option currently.

obviously for budget reasons and being able to drive the car more comfortably on the street i'd prefer to just bolt in some nice reclining sparcos or recaros or momos. Safety is more important though, as i'm starting to drive closer to the edge and learn to steer more with my right foot .

thanks for any help,

Mark

bobmoore2

I'm afraid I can't help, as I don't know much about aftermarket seats. Sometimes folks are a little hesitant to be the first response around here. So maybe this post will break things loose.

Come on, you experts! Help the kid out.

c4cruiser

I would start by getting a good harness bar, some good 5 or 6-point harness belts and a race seat with fixed brackets.

Contact Gary Hoffman (he's here a lot) and ask him about his seat brackets and a seat that will suit your height and weight. With his brackets, a race seat can be removed and the stock Z06 seat reinstalled in short order.

A good race seat will have holes/slots in the frame to allow all of the belts to pass through. Some sanctioning bodies or groups that run track days may require that type of seat if you have a harness bar and belts.

Can't help you with specifics about a HANS device, but others will chime in.

longdaddy

let me try to answer your questions, although the question you have to answer for yourself is "where do I draw the line between track safety, street comfort and $$ sunk into the car?". you are going to figure out that one for yourself. anything that you want to be able to drive on the street is going to be a compromise in terms of safety.

roof supporting the weight of the car. low speed rollover - sure. going sideways and flipping over 6 times at 150 mph - I would not count on the roof. there is no published data on this for marketing and legal reasons. general consensus is that anything short of full 10+pt cage is a compromise.

are you willing to live with a 4pt roll bar? 6pt? full cage? door bars? up to you.

seats. anything short of full racing seat + 5/6pt harness, properly mounted, is a compromise. reclining seat is introducing one extra potential point of failure in an impact. full containment race seat is one of the most street-unfriendly mods, especially if you drive daily. i have one and it sucks until I get to the track. then it rocks. pick a sit that fits you well and is used by wheel2wheel racers. there are dozens of options.


harness bar will allow you to use a harness but will provide very little structural reinforcement and no rollover protection. using a harness with a seat not designed to accomodate it is a no-no. i have seen arguments that using a harness bar with a harness but no roll protection increases rollover injury risk (spine/neck have nowhere to go if the roof collapses). anothing thing to think about.

hans is useless without a properly mounted harness and a real race seat. there are some other neck protection options that will supposedly work with 3pt belt systems.

you should base your safety equipment decisions on the level of safety vs risk that you (and your family) are willing to live with, trying to take $$ out of the equation as much as possible.

living the rest of your life with permanent injuries would be far more "expensive" than the most pricey safety equipment your money can buy.

novaZkid

thanks for the replys.

I'm comfortable compromising streetability for track safety. I drive a camry everyday to work.

I guess i'm sold on either a 4pt welded in half cage or full roll cage. Is it possible to fabricate a full cage and still make it safe for the street?

if not just ,4pt for now until i can swing a truck and trailer then i'll add the other front section later. thanks,

Mark

sperkins

Well said. The safety concern was the #1 reason I chose to buy a dedicated track car. I couldn't see myself tearing apart my low mileage ZO6 to put in a cage, but tracks like Road Atlanta made it clear to me that safety was not an area to compromise in. Ultimately, there's just too much at stake for me to take chances so I'll spend the money now rather than a over a disabled lifetime.

AU N EGL

the likely hood of a roll over is some what low. The likely hood of a side impact is HIGH. walls, tires

only full cage with NASCAR door bars can help there.

safety equipment is the one mod that costs quite a bit, a pia to install and the one you hope and pray you never use. but as longdddy said above, "permanent injuries would be far more expensive."

Check out the SCCA or NASA tech rules. as not just any roll cage will do.

urtoslo

It's quite tight in a Vette with a cage and without a helmet, for street driving, your head would be banging on all those bars (if you were to be involved in an accident).

Bill Dearborn

All good points. However, as Longdaddy says there are some people who think if you don't have rollover protection when wearing a harness you don't have anywhere to go. This is a myth. A rollover is a violent occurrence and your body is going to go where the forces of the crash dictate. No way anybody has a chance to move their body to the side even if they could think of doing so fast enough. Your best bet to survive is to have a properly mounted harness and an appropriate seat as that will contain body movement.

The C5 coupe and FRC body styles have a roof hoop that is part of the B pillar and is very strong. However, that doesn't keep the windshield portion of the car from crushing inward if the car rolls. Only a cage will prevent that. A 4 point bar probably provides little more support than a harness bar (ie its a place to mount the shoulder harnesses). To backup the C5s roof hoop the roll bar has to be welded to the frame in the rear and to the lower part of the B pillar in the front. Not the cross bar behind the seat or to the floor behind the seat. I have a relative who works for GM and knew the C5 engineers at the time and he got that information from them. There are only a couple of vendors that provide that type of mounting.

With your BMW driving experience you probably have seen many 3 series cars that have some roll protection in them while not being to bad to get in and out of. There just isn't that kind of room in a Corvette. For HPDEs, I used to install an Ultrashield Deluxe race seat on Hardbar rails in my 03Z. The seat bottom was only the depth of the rails from the floor and it still made it a real pain to get in and out of the car. A removable steering wheel would have helped. Although you are smaller than I am anything similar would end up being mounted higher and closer to the wheel so you would have the same entry problem. You may want to look at the LG cloth race seats. They mount to your seat rails are not back breakable and cost $595 http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=2073 . Those seats with a harness bar may be your best bet.

Oh, by the way, once you get hooked on using your right foot for steering that E36 M3 will not cut it anymore.

Bill

novaZkid

so my best bet is welded in half cage with fixed back one piece race seats, HANS and 5/6point harnesses?

full cage is out of the question then if driven to and from the track?

Until i get a tow rig, i think its my best option.

thanks again.,

Mark

GettReal

ok, since mine is a vert, this is one of the first things I did when I decided to run HPDE's. I have a 6pt bar welded to the frame in the rear (trunk area) and to the lower part of the B pillar in the front (as mentioned by Bill D). I use a 5pt harness attached to the bar and fitted my car with fixed back race seats. Still totally streetable, you can see I've even kept my 3pt belt in there.

flycastinguy

Been there. Done that. And it ain't no fun. Not on the track, but in the median of the interstate a few months back. Probably the most violent and completely out-of-control event of my life. Talk about just being along for the ride!! It happened the day before a Chin event at Road Atlanta and part of me wanted no part of going to the track that weekend. But I got back on the horse and was glad I did, but you better believe that the sounds of twisting metal, breaking glass and the sight of dirt and grass coming through the windshield was with me all weekend long. (It still is!) Rollover protection is now at the top of the worklist for this winter. I'm damned lucky to be alive and want do my part to keep it that way!

Good luck.

Bob