97C5inSD

you guys that Road race or even the Frequent HPDE peeps How often do you feel you should or do you guys Freshen up your motors? based on hours? Races, Or miles on car?

Also a Stock LS6 VS say a build 383 or a Built LS2 motor.


Since my motor went blewy this last summer i have been looking at many diffrent motors setups stock vs built and such. and well i hate to say i loved my built motor even in it's demise

So say i built a Nice motor and added a dry sump system. How often should i consider doing a rebuild or a freshing up of the motor? And how would this differ from say a crate motor but still adding a dry sump system.

It would see a few track days a year along with Mostly autocross and some street miles. All unfortunatly in a flux since i farm and ranch for a living so i don't always get a chance to do a regular track thing or even autox for the matter.

Thanks for the input.

Bill Dearborn

My C5Z has seen about 5K miles of track driving out of its 42.8K miles and the engine is just fine. These track miles were put on from 2003 through 7 track days at the beginning of this season. Oil pressure is excellent, performance still strong. Engine is stock but I did have an engine oil cooler on the car which kept oil temps at 265 or below while tracking it.

The track related maintenance problems I had over that time were power steering pump and rack failures, and wheel bearing and tie rod issues. From my observations built/tuned engines seem to fail sooner.

Bill

sperkins

My vote is for the stock LS6 based on the usage you described.

John Shiels

I have 5000-6000 track only miles on my LS6 with H&C. Swapped the springs twice. Gets real hard miles and I keep it in the higher rpm band. Coolers and accusump from DRM still dynoed the same as when build -2 HP. 450/400

AU N EGL

stock LS6 is almost bullet proof.

Even the ASA LS1s with the ASA cams ( ~ 420 rwhp) are almost bullet proof, but may not be worth the added cost.

a built motor would depend on the builder, cost of the parts, cam lift, and use.

There are a few guys who have used Scheanke Racing engines with great success http://www.schwankeshortblocks.com/

HKE out of Houston, Eric knows the difference between a hot rod, drag race and road race engine.

Katech of course,

http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/ls.html

There are others as well.

Building an engine to last, is not cheap. and cheap parts break sooner then latter.

for a well built and reliable ( rebuild once a year) 383 or 402 one could buy three crate LS6s or LS2s. over a two year period.

For example:
Schwanke Road Race build

375 Cubic Inches, 7400 Rev Limit

600HP, 535 Ft. Lbs Torque

$15,000 plus freight.

97C5inSD

Thanks for the great input guys.

Guess another question i have. Is rebuilding a Stock motor any less expensive then Rebuilding a Built Motor if there was no harm on either of them a person just tore them down to freshen them up?

JimbeauZ06

New LS6 crate motor. ~ $5k
Is there any doubt? LS2s are relatively cheap too.

AU N EGL

YES parts are less. then it also depends on the builder and his labor costs and more impotently his building skill.

YES 600 hp, 7300 rpm motors are SEXY AS HECK. and if your budget allows it, go for it.

Big HP also needs lots of other adders as well, strong transmission

argonaut

I've seen several crate LS6 long blocks for $3800 recently (in the parts section and on that big auction site) - can't beat that deal.

97C5inSD

What is so diffrent about these motors over a stock motor? i have a line on one of these motors with 4 races on it that is comeing with a dry sump that i am really considering getting

is it just the cam in them that gets that much more power outta them or is there some head work done. he showed me a dyno sheet of it still makeing 409 rwhp with Ls1 intake and heads. he said with the AFR heads he could put on it and ls6 intake it would make the 420 you had mentioned

AU N EGL

ASA Cam 226/236 525/525 110

ASA = American Speed Association

putting on the AFRs would be a good way to go. Little extra power and good reliability.

autoxer6

I thought the SCCA T1 races were rebuilding the LS6 more than once per year. Is that true? How much HP would you loose after 5K track miles?

AU N EGL

No New crate motors each year and some of the top guys put in a new crate motor right before the Run Offs ( National Championships)

How much HP is lost? enough to not be competitive.

how much speed would a 5 hp difference make down Road America's Long straights ?

do you want 385 or 380 rwhp?

and with theC5 LS6s battling the C6 LS2s and even the LS3 dry sump engines fighting with the Vipers and the F430 ? 5 hp less is a LOT

Read this thread "Could a C5 win at the Run Offs"

ryan0

here's my story... take it for what its worth..

my 2001 LS6 had 35k miles on it when i put a blower on it... swapped the valve springs... 8psi... and started to go road racing.

i ran it hard for a 3 years, countless track days. overheated it a few times so bad it went to limp mode. 300+ degree oil, etc.

pulled the blower off, flashed it back to stock and went T1 racing. beat it to hell, over heated it again. every time i went out on track my mentality was 'this is the day for kabooom'..

about a year or so a friend of mine dropped a crate motor in his T1 car, so i figured I might as well do mine too. took it to the same shop 6 days after his was installed and mine dynoed 2 hp MORE than his brand new crate. we figure my bearings, rings, etc are so worn in, they spin more freely.

here we are 5 years after starting road racing... 3 weeks ago i overheated it so bad it limp moded again.. TWICE.. figured FOR SURE this was it. RIP.

had it dynoed last week and still makes brand new crate motor numbers on a different shops dyno, compared to a new crate that was dynoed at the shop 2 wks before and 1 week after mine.

go figure.

AU N EGL

Damn Ryan. That is great

take it too the Run Offs

ryan0

id love to... but, too far.. too many sets of tires.. too much work.. too many bills.

there's no room for 'privateers' at nationals.. top teams were changing to new tires in the middle of practice sessions last year right? motors are new. dissembled, matched, balanced, tweaked and reassembled .. head are 'decked'.. parts are 'special'.. shocks are triple adjustable and dialed in from tons of practice days at RA. how can any of us west coast 'club' guys compete? i would consider 5th place for anyone of the non 'big cash, big names' to be a win.. and wisconsin is way to for to try and run for a 5th-10th spot (although top 10 may be assured this year right?.. heh)

besides.. my prediction?... the never before sighted 2009 T1 ferrari sasquatch whacks all.

John Shiels

So that motor above is rated at the crank? So my old LS6 is at 450/400 RW numbers don't look bad and with the cam I have in the 600's it has lasted fine and dropped little power. If I build anything where it requires complete engine dissassembly and different components the price skyrockets.

Tough to beat the LS6 with H&C

AU N EGL

Exactly right John

Even my little 224 cam has lasted 20K some track miles. Not an aggressive cam, just change the springs occasional and check the valves.

97C5inSD

Thanks for the great insight guys. The only thing that i'm still lacking is a gernal idea on How many hours of use of miles on motor between rebuilds? I suppose dynoing the car every year or every 6 months of events would probly be a good judge of telling if the car is in poor shape?

longdaddy

ls6 here with 3+ years of pretty much monthly (or more) HPDE use. Runs as well as it did when I bought the car.