StrokedOutVette

A little background...
I have a 2006 Corvette Z51 which is stock except for NPP exhaust and a new set of PS2s last week. It is my daily driver and my baby. It's spotless and I would like to keep it that way. I love this car but get really frustrated that I can't truly enjoy it's performance on the street (without getting stopped by the LEOs). So I decided I should figure out where, when and how I can drive the car like it was meant to be driven.

That's when I ran across HPDEs. I read up on them some and they seem to fit the bill for what I'm looking for. But I have a few questions:

1. Can these events easily be done with a daily driver? I know anything can be done but I want to know if this is feasible.

2. Am I putting the car at a greater risk of getting damaged by using it for an HPDE, mechanically or cosmetically? Am I any more likely to wreck it by hitting a wall? Does regular insurance cover this?

3.What is the total cost of attending a HPDE? I know things like this can wind up being a lot more expensive than the $450 registration fee. Once you factor in prepping the car, lodging, gas to/from and while at the event, tools, helmet, everything else which I don't know about yet since I've never done one...

4. Should I even be considering HPDEs or is there a different venue where I can enjoy the performance of the car that may be a little less involved?

Thanks to everyone for their input. From what I've learned so far, these events sound like a ton of fun and I look forward to hopefully getting out there.

stevensa

AU N EGL

Welcome to Real world of Corvettes

mark b

I say go for it, upgrade and flush your brake fluid to Dot 4 synthetic(motul 600, valvoline, etc..) because dot 3 (what you have in the car now probably,) might not be able to take the heat. Even in novice you are eventually going to be flying and screeching your tires through corners, etc

you'll be with an instructor who will teach you track driving and guide you through it. the good ones will let you be a passenger in their cars for a session and show you how it should be done. that's what was done to me and I learned much faster that way. especially when you have an instructor with the same type car! Because you can be fast on the street, but if you do the same thing that you do on the street on the track, you will wreck. If you dont know what you are doing

But in time you will find that you are a faster safer driver on and off the track.. you'll learn what you and your car is cabable of and then the mods and the insanity begins!! it's addicting. you will start to go faster and your car will need to be upgraded to meet your skill. it never ends. But you can be like me and once you mod the car alittle performance/braking and suspension wise and you know where 10/10's driving is, you keep it at 7 to 8/10's and just have a blast!

DarkMastyr

My vette serves as a weekend car / hpde car. Totally street spec, except for the brake pads which I switch out for days at the track. You will likely incur dings from rocks and what not unless you do a real good job taping up the car. I put on a GM bra on the track to help protect the front end. With street tires, I don't wear my tires or brakes anywhere near as fast as some other folks, so my costs are relatively lower. That being said, I estimate that I still probably drop $500+ on each track day including fees and amortized costs of consumables (tires, brakes, fluids) and minor mods (tow hooks, brake ducts, etc.).

63Corvette

Go for it, but search the Forum here for some realistic estimates at cost of consumables (tires, brake pads & rotors, fluid etc). These and travel/accommodations will be your main expenses.

gkmccready

If the car is truly your baby and you can't deal with sand, rocks, or ***** of rubber hitting it, then I wouldn't do it. Go get a car you care less about and do it. Once you do that for a bit you'll care a lot less about the little things and more about the things that make you go faster. :-)

John Shiels

Go watch an event at YIR and maybe hook a ride with someone and you will see first hand what it is about. You could also try autoX first. Less risk less chips on your car.

sothpaw2

Let me be specific for each question:

1) Yes for your first couple of events you can enjoy the handling and acceleration of the car with the only change needed being clean, fresh (brand new) high temp. Dot4 brake fluid such as Motul600. Ate is borderline IMHO and I wouldn't try anything with lower boiling point.
After you start to learn a bit if you still want to continue you will need to invest in better brake pads.

2)Cosmetically--yes. It's not as bad as what I'm getting here in MD due to all the I-95 construction though. But I doubt you would drive your 'baby' on my commute because of that. The are also a lot of unpaved areas that you come across at HPDE--stones thrown up by your own tires. You can protect your car with blue painter's tape or other but you can't protect the windshield and with time you take a hit in a place you didn't protect or through the tape. I find some events are better than others for this--a beginner's group (green-novice) is best as nobody is on slicks. However, you want to pick a well-run group where you are not getting people with a lot of offs. Cars going off put pebbles on the track and then you get sprayed as cars in front of you go over that.

Mechanically--check your policy but many don't cover it. There is per event insurance to cover it though and it might cost you $200 / 2 or 3 day event. I think you are less likely total your car here vs driving local roads in a congested suburb area all the time (because there idiots will do things like pull out right in front of you etc). I'm assuming that with HPDE you behave yourself and listen to the instructor and run with a group that techs the cars before hand and has mostly newer cars in a group. Older cars sometimes blow something and spew oil even in a beginner group.

3) When you don't need to buy pads yet and not considering your tires, I think you can do it for $300/day including gasoline (big$$ even if you drive your car to and from the track)the brake fluid. You can use a local track so avoid hotel fees etc.

4) No I think HPDE is best. You can try auto-x but I didn't enjoy it much--takes all day for 4 minutes of driving, plus no top end driving as speeds limited. Also, the road course is the same everytime, the auto-x different and frequently it's very had to see where you need to go--all you see is a sea of cones.

I recommend that you try enjoying the handling of your car on some on/off ramps locally. Don't break any rules, but whats nice is that you can see everything in the area and pick a place with extra room in case you get over-zealous. If this doesn't float your boat, try a HPDE from a good club. In VA I would recommend the NVCC event in July or running with Porsche PCA Potomac (although they are a little stingy on track time).

That should cover.

Greywolfe

If you want to keep your car in perfect condition and not get any chips or scratches on it and never push it to the limit then don't DE it.

If you want to learn what your car can really do, hang out with a great bunch of people and have a hell of a good time do DE. You will have to accept some chips and scratches and increased wear rates on your car and the possibility of damaging your car (although slim if you stay in control and within you driving ability and don't have bad luck such as the car in front of you dumps antifreeze all over the upcoming corner). Personally I have been in more close calls on the street than on the track because of idiot drivers on the street.

DE is just the first step in the addiction which will lead to TT or W2W racing.

Waxer or Racer.... The choice is yours!

argonaut

- Personally I think starting in autocross is a great way to go because it teaches you car control skills (oversteer, understeer, braking, etc) in a low speed, low cost, low risk environment. But I agree that going to a normal event and getting 4-6 runs isn't so good (at least for me). Thats why I recommend the AX schools. Brian Garfield is a member of the Wash DC region SCCA. He runs several AX Novice schools thru the year. Here is a link Wash DC Area AX Schools

- Both Summit Point (2 tracks) and VIR are close to you. TrackDaze.com is a group that runs at both a couple times a year. Their Novice program is great and safe. They seem to attract lots of newbies and do a good job of training them. I'll be running in the advanced group with them at Summit Point Shenandoah May 15-16 (2 days for $365, including Instructor and Classroom). Note: some guys love Shenandoah and some don't. Its a fairly slow speed track with a boat load of turns.

- Lots of other options out their - their is no shortage of opportunities w/i driving distance of DC. Send me a PM sometime if you want more info on events in this area - I will probably be going to about 15 this year.

Bill Dearborn

I started doing HPDEs in 1992 with Track Time. The class room instructor at the time pointed out something I have remembered to this day. The risk of damaging your car goes up as you gain experience and I have found it to be generally true. Most novices show up at the track and end up driving slower on the track than they did on the highway getting to the track. There is something that spooks them about the track and they end up driving far below the capability of their car. The highest risk driver's are the ones in the semi advanced group then the risk of an incident drops as a driver becomes an advanced driver then goes on to instructor level. However, the novice is still assuming less risk.

So for your first few events you will be probably be safer on the track than you will ever be later on if you decide to continue.

To keep costs down just flush the brake fluid with a good DOT 3 fluid like Ford Super Duty which has a 500 degree dry boiling point a couple of days before the event. I wouldn't worry about trying to get higher performance brake pads as the stock pads can stand up to a couple of days of track driving at the slower pace you will be going. Just make sure you have over 80% of the pad remaining before you start. New pads can be a problem if they aren't broken in correctly so it is best to start with a set that has been on the car for several hundred miles.

Figure on getting about 6 mpg while on the track. Depending on the track, the number of sessions and the duration of the sessions you will get anywhere from 130 to 200 track miles per day. Gas for the event will probably run you between $160 and $250 depending on how much you pay per gallon.

Most events I have been to run somewhere between $400 and $500 for a two day event at a name track so it is going to be hard to get that cost down.

The biggest risk you are taking though is an emotional one. If you really like what you experience it will be hard to stop doing it. You get hooked on the adrenalin rush which is almost as bad as getting hooked on drugs. My buddy's who golf were really surprised at the expense of this sport. It made their week long golf outings to Myrtle Beach look trivial in comparison. For a while even as an instructor with free track time I was spending at least a thousand a weekend. Twelve weekends a year adds up quickly.


Bill

MungoZ06

I had a '94 LT1 Cpe, Torch Red - show car - over 9 years I won every top award there was to compete for in judged concours.
I sold it in '03, because I was afraid of taking it to the track and I knew I wanted to experience a Corvette "at speed" before I got too old. It was still near perfect cosmetically, but I had not pulled any fluids maint in it in 9 years - 'cause I didn't know better ...
I bought my current '03 Z06 for that reason - to drive. First autox at 160 miles. First track event in Apr '04. The rear ducts are pitted; I've got stone chips behind the wheels and on the rocker panels - it's got the patina of proper use ... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
But to each his own ...

Sgt.Gator

From the tone of your questions I think you should start with autocross. It's very inexpensive as a newbie. Typically $25-30 a day. And you don't have to do anything to your car if it's in good shape. You don't even need to bring a helmet, almost all clubs supply loaner helmets.

I think in your area both SCCA and NASA are active, plus independent clubs.
Here's a couple of places to start:

http://www.wdcr-scca.org/SoloAutocro...6/Default.aspx

NASA also has autocross at VIR:
http://www.get-fast.net/nasacross/

Once you are comfortable at AutoX you may take the next step to HPDE, or just enjoy AutoX.

Either way, once bitten, the can both get expensive!

2K3Z06

AutoX is a great way to start, and learn car control at the limit. But after a few years of parking lot racing, the call of the big track is a whole lot more challenging and fun.

Drive that bad boy and have some fun, cause as Lou Gigilotti says, It won't matter in 50 years, cause you'll be dead.

longdaddy

do it once and see for yourself. you will be in a novice group, with instruction. the likelihood of wrecking or mechanically damaging your car on your first day is very low as long as you listen to the instructions and excersize common sense before and during the event.

you will not need to modify anything on your car for it to be HPDE ready. basic maintainance is enough for your first few days. plenty of 100% stock cars out there doing just fine.

as far as paint damage goes, nothing that you would not get in a couple of days' worth of highway driving. some people tape off the vulnerable areas with blue tape, but it is more a of a feel good measure than anything else. there are real products out there that could actually protect your paint OK (3M paint protection film etc) but I really would not bother with that unless you are starting to do this on a regular basis and are concerned about preserving a value of a car that gets tracked a lot (somewhat of a contradiction)

if you go with a group that allows passengers, get a ride with an experienced driver towards the end of the day to get a feel for what you could be doing if you make it your hobby.

KBRVETTE93

Check with your local corvette club. NCCC autox is a blast and relatively inexpensive. After you are comfortable with the low speed (under 85mph) you can qualify for hi speed autox events. This is very safe (solo events) and much less likely to chip or rubberball your paint. You will know when you are ready for HPDE and eventually TT.

You will really enjoy the progression, and your skill level will improve with practice.
As the excitement of each level begins to plateau, move up to the next. Enjoy the ride!

blueekb

Sign up for a FATT (Friday at the track) event at Summit Point Raceway. Looks like the first one this year is March 13th which is actually a Saturday. It costs $250 and its just a one day event. It only takes 1 hour or less to get there from our area so leave early in the a.m. and be home for dinner.


I starting out doing these last year then did the last 3 events with NASA cause I liked it so much. Lots of cool people there that will help out noobies and show them around. Or i'm sure you can convince me or one of the many other Vette owners in our area to go with you and make it easier.

Mine is not a daily driver but I don't tow it to the track. I drive about 75 -80% of the limit and its still plenty fast and will keep you on the track.

l98tpi

levettegrl

just another thought....

porsche club of america does what's called 'taste of the track'.

$25

you participate in classroom instruction, then you get 2 sessions riding with an instructor.

spend the day having some fun, talking to people and getting a flavor for the track, then see if it's what you want to do.

I agree with a lot of the above comments, autocross is a good way to start.

Don't roadrace until you are ready to deal with a few chips and melted rubber, tape helps.

You will get hooked, be prepared.