At a crossroads - Please chime in
10-18-2010, 10:12 PM
#1
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At a crossroads - Please chime in
FYI - 05 LS2 MN6
I really am torn on what to do. I have to build the bottom of the motor since I would rather be safe since the pistons were kissed by the valves I am for sure going to replace the pistons and have new bearings put in as well since they have to have the block apart to machine it all back together. Got a rough estimate at about $2500 on that.
As for the heads I am going to get some aftermarket or CNCd of sometype since repairing my heads is about 1k anyway.
Was thinking about going with AFR 215cc heads milled to 60cc's to bump compression just over 11.1 to 1. Also a new cam and pretty well decided on the cam specs as well since its only $400 and they have everything apart anyway.
Here is the problem. When i start considering things like Morel Lifters, better pushrods, and heads like AFR and that pricey range, where do you stop.
If i plan to keep road Racing/HPDE/TT the car is it better to go with like a crate motor built for racing with forged pistons & rods and bolts and all of that upgraded (and probably stroked it seems is what you find).
I know money can be spent on seat time and theres where you will get more than power will, I understand that guys and agree as well.
My concern is is do you spend the money now to make the engine stronger to withstand the stress, or just get the new pistons some reasonable heads and get it up and running (done right of course) and leave some on the table. I know budget is a determining factor, but how hard is road racing on our engines.
How are the stock Rods, crank bearings, going to hold up to possibly 80 more rwhp as well from the heads/cam.
Just curious what you veterans have seen as the engine parts that fail, that if i can replace them now and make them stronger is the smarter bet now that will save money later.
I really am torn on what to do. I have to build the bottom of the motor since I would rather be safe since the pistons were kissed by the valves I am for sure going to replace the pistons and have new bearings put in as well since they have to have the block apart to machine it all back together. Got a rough estimate at about $2500 on that.
As for the heads I am going to get some aftermarket or CNCd of sometype since repairing my heads is about 1k anyway.
Was thinking about going with AFR 215cc heads milled to 60cc's to bump compression just over 11.1 to 1. Also a new cam and pretty well decided on the cam specs as well since its only $400 and they have everything apart anyway.
Here is the problem. When i start considering things like Morel Lifters, better pushrods, and heads like AFR and that pricey range, where do you stop.
If i plan to keep road Racing/HPDE/TT the car is it better to go with like a crate motor built for racing with forged pistons & rods and bolts and all of that upgraded (and probably stroked it seems is what you find).
I know money can be spent on seat time and theres where you will get more than power will, I understand that guys and agree as well.
My concern is is do you spend the money now to make the engine stronger to withstand the stress, or just get the new pistons some reasonable heads and get it up and running (done right of course) and leave some on the table. I know budget is a determining factor, but how hard is road racing on our engines.
How are the stock Rods, crank bearings, going to hold up to possibly 80 more rwhp as well from the heads/cam.
Just curious what you veterans have seen as the engine parts that fail, that if i can replace them now and make them stronger is the smarter bet now that will save money later.
10-18-2010, 10:30 PM
#2
Safety Car
most bang for the buck..........for longevity, stock LS6 Crate motor, engine oilcooler (dewitts radiator or something like it) accusump, headers, Ls3 tensioner, then just have fun! 
10-19-2010, 10:10 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
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Just look at T1 cars and see what kind of lap times they turn, the C5's (for the most part) all run crate motors - if they take them apart and balance/blueprint them they don't last as long period! Dollar for dollar a crate motor will last you longer than a built motor will. There are plenty of guys out there that have gone down the stroker/big hp route and some really wished they haven't. Building a higher hp road racing engine isn't done cheaply and there is never any gaurantee that it will last.
Cheap - Power - Reliable (you can only pick 2)
It may sound weird but an LS6 short block in place of your LS2 is exactly what I would do. They have the best track record I've seen providing reliable power under the stress of road racing.
Think of the $$$ you'll save for brakes and suspension.
10-19-2010, 12:05 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
That's actually not such a bad idea, his car is a C6 but you could use the LS2 intake on the LS6 long block. There was a link a while back for long blocks around $3300. You could save a ton doing it that way. They come with a Caddy oil pan and pilot bearing, so you would have to swap out the Caddy pan for your C6 pan and install a different pilot bearing. Bolt on your manifold, water pump and re-tune it and you would be ready to go. It also comes with a stock dampener so you don't have to spend more $$ for one of those.
Just look at T1 cars and see what kind of lap times they turn, the C5's (for the most part) all run crate motors - if they take them apart and balance/blueprint them they don't last as long period! Dollar for dollar a crate motor will last you longer than a built motor will. There are plenty of guys out there that have gone down the stroker/big hp route and some really wished they haven't. Building a higher hp road racing engine isn't done cheaply and there is never any gaurantee that it will last.
Cheap - Power - Reliable (you can only pick 2)
It may sound weird but an LS6 short block in place of your LS2 is exactly what I would do. They have the best track record I've seen providing reliable power under the stress of road racing.
Think of the $$$ you'll save for brakes and suspension.
Just look at T1 cars and see what kind of lap times they turn, the C5's (for the most part) all run crate motors - if they take them apart and balance/blueprint them they don't last as long period! Dollar for dollar a crate motor will last you longer than a built motor will. There are plenty of guys out there that have gone down the stroker/big hp route and some really wished they haven't. Building a higher hp road racing engine isn't done cheaply and there is never any gaurantee that it will last.
Cheap - Power - Reliable (you can only pick 2)
It may sound weird but an LS6 short block in place of your LS2 is exactly what I would do. They have the best track record I've seen providing reliable power under the stress of road racing.
Think of the $$$ you'll save for brakes and suspension.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...-ls2-swap.html
10-19-2010, 12:54 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
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It's an 05 LS2 so it would still have the 24 tooth wheel if I'm not mistaken.
You could still reposition the knock sensors and buy the harness extension for the cam postions sensor. The crank position sensor should be in the same location. So it should work out ok in this situation, for 06 and later LS2's you would be correct.
You could still reposition the knock sensors and buy the harness extension for the cam postions sensor. The crank position sensor should be in the same location. So it should work out ok in this situation, for 06 and later LS2's you would be correct.
Last edited by 96CollectorSport; 10-19-2010 at 01:41 PM.
10-19-2010, 03:19 PM
#7
Safety Car
10-19-2010, 04:56 PM
#9
Team Owner
Did a LS6 in my car with H&C, pushrods, and timing chain at Vette Doctors. 6-7 years ago may be more. at least 9000 track miles only. No mercy miles. Broke a spring and swapped them out twice. All the coolers on the engine & accusump from DRM . Car still makes with in 2-3 hp & Tq of original build. 450 / 400. At the time budget was bigger motor or LS6 with all the coolers. It has worked out great. It is red lined at 66 0r 6700 and I always whined it up, every corner.
10-19-2010, 06:42 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
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That's a good point, I don't think that the oil pan is what's keeping the LS6's together, I think it has more to do with the way the heads and block allow oil to drain back to the bottom of the engine.
I remember when the C6 first came out that there were several people that thought that the LS2 pan was better than the LS6 pan. Then when the LS3's came out and had issues in T1 they tried to make an LS6 style "bat wing" pan to keep oil at the top end. Still had issues, so my I would think that it has more to do with the drainage than anything else.
Accusump can't hurt, if anything it will allow you to per-lube the engine before you start it, your bearings will thank you.
I remember when the C6 first came out that there were several people that thought that the LS2 pan was better than the LS6 pan. Then when the LS3's came out and had issues in T1 they tried to make an LS6 style "bat wing" pan to keep oil at the top end. Still had issues, so my I would think that it has more to do with the drainage than anything else.
Accusump can't hurt, if anything it will allow you to per-lube the engine before you start it, your bearings will thank you.