PeOR

So I just got my Schroth 4 pt harness http://www.schrothracing.com/store/C...m/profi-II-asm from Wine Country Motorsport in Jupiter Fl. http://winecountrymotorsports.com Henry Gilberts team will help me get the harness bar into the car when it is time to drive next week.



Now to my question - what do you guys do with the normal seat belts when using the harness? Do you just let the warning lamp be lit? Or do you have a dummy seat belt plug that you use? Or do you even use the 3 pt belt on top of the harness, like I understand some do in Time Trials?

PeO.

AU N EGL

4 point? Can you retrun for a 6 point ? Need those sub belts to prevent sliding down.

use the stock DOT 3 point or use a 6 point harness.

some guys will put the stock 3 point behind the seat and click it in

I dont worry about it. and my seat belt light stays on, I think. Dont even remember I am so use to it

JohnTheStigGalt

Actually, no you don't. That's a Schroth ASM rig - ASM standing for Anti-Sub-Marining. These belts are safe and DOT approved for every day driving WITHOUT a sub-belt. Although you can still (and should IMO) use a sub-belt with the ASM harness for the race track.

Once I started using them in my car, I never went back to the stock belts. In fact, eventually, I just removed the stock belts altogether.

AU N EGL

No offence, but tracks / organizations may not allow them. We do not for our event.

Stock DOT 3 points or 5 or 6 points.

Does not matter what the manufacture says. and trying too ague is a moot point.

Best to stick with stock or 5 / 6 point harness.

TS Motorsport

6 Point or bust. I normally use the OEM 3 point when driving around the city, and I keep the 4 belts of the 6 point connected to the car and out of sight but ready for race day.

PeOR

The reason for going 4 pt is I still have the stock seats in my car. I know that is not good from a security stand point but it is where I currently balance my car between being a daily driver and a track day car. When I am getting a real seat I will be able to add the two straps to this kit. So, it will then be a full 6 pt belt.

Any comments about using both 4 pt and 3 pt at the same time?

PeO.

AU N EGL

That is EXTREMELY dangerous to get out of the car in an emergency Do not do that.

Stick with the 3 point until you can get a race seat and harnesses.

TS Motorsport

I have the 3 point still in the car which I use with my race seat. I also have a harness bar with the rear harnesses still attached, and side harnesses attached and tucked away on the sides. I use the OEM point like I mentioned earlier on the street, and the 6 point on race days when I attached the main lock with the remaining front two harnesses. It's a great combination of race/street use. What we're saying is, the 6point will actually protect you in a rollover.

95jersey

You will not be allowed to use stock seats with a harness at most ANY club (even the renegade ones). The belts will seperate under impact and you will go through the windshield. Getting a proper race seat with the holes for both upper and sub is a must if you use 4/5/6 point harnesses.

Also, once you got yourself all tied in nice with that harness, guess what floats around like a bobble...your head? You are now tied in so tight, your head will never see the airbag, it will just snap like a twig (Dale H I think was only doing like 40 or 50mph when he died I believe).

I ran without hans for years with harness and in retrospect...it was the STUPIDEST thing I could of done and are lucky after 120 track days to be alive.

You should either stay 100 stock and let the GM system work as designed (allowing your whole body to move and fall into the airbag for support) or get a full race seat, at least 5 point and HANS or other certified neck restraint.

Seriously dude, it's all or nothing....or your life.

I would never strap into another 5 point without my Hans ever again in my life!!!!

PeOR

I appreciate all concerns expressed and understand there is a lot of experience behind it. You have provided lot's of valuable thoughts that are new to me. The body passing between the vertical straps if not in a race seat is one, HANS vs the air bag is another.

I do not of course want to expose myself to risks that I don't have to. On the other hand, I would not want to go that far that I stay off track. My path will be, still with all comments in mind, gradually take the steps to a safer and faster track day car.

PeO.

JohnTheStigGalt

I'm not trying to argue the point. You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Some tracks / organizations may not allow them.

I was simply dispelling your concern that these belts would result in submarining in a crash. They won't. Check out Schroth's website - they have a very interesting crash test video. Schroth isn't exactly the Bubba Belt Company... These guys know what they're doing.

AU N EGL

Schroth is a well respected company. But even well respected company make products that should have never been made.

These belts are for the tunner crowed and to make money. Not for real use.


May I also suggest that some rubber tool box liner be cut and put on the seat bottom to help hold you in place.

and if the OP has power seats, to depress the seat back bladders to almost empty, This will allow you to sit deep into the seat.

Then move up the side bolsters to hold your body side in place.

PeOR

Just for the record, below are some videos that are showing some collision movies with 4 pt harnesses made by Schroth themselves. My intention is not to trigger the discussion about 4 pt belt being safe or unsafe. A 6 pt belt in a race seat and with a HANS setup is the standard to go for. But it did provide me with a higher level of insight than just "my imagination".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR_FhuSEaU8 tries to demonstrate how the flexibility in the shoulder straps makes a difference regarding submarining. (Anyone using their 6pt harness with lose bottom straps, please see how far down the body goes...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHbwvYqq22s shows a collision with 4 pt harness and air bag.

PeO.

Bill Dearborn

If you read the Schroth documentation those belts are only DOT legal in certain cars. They are definitely not certified in a Corvette where they are not mounted to hard points like the cars they are certified for. They are only certified for use in certain BMWs, Minis, VW/Audi and Subarus. The shoulder belts as shown in your picture have clips that fit into the rear seat belt receivers in the back of these cars. Attaching them to a harness bar while using a seat they were not designed for completely destroys their usefulness.

Call HMS Motorsports (Toll Free: 888.467.3269) and talk to Joe Marko the owner. He is a safety harness installation expert and can give you all of the information required for the proper use of a seat belt. His company sells harnesses to some of the top Cup teams in NASCAR and the driver's names are well known.

Bill

sebdavid

There's also the issue of running a harness without rollover protection...

PeOR

It will be a HANS compatible seat coming up within shortly and a HANS set down the line. I need to read in more on seats since I have never studied that topic. Should I have sliders or fixed etc. Calling HMS Motorsports seems to be a good idea. The roll cage will not happen though. Or at least that is what I am thinking now. It is a risk I will run with, but that goes for the guys in the standard Cobras as well..

PeO.

c4cruiser

Even if you go ahead with using that harness on the street, you really need to check your state laws regarding what is legal. If an LEO sees you driving and he doesn't see the diagonal shoulder belt across your chest, he may very well pull you over and write you up. The cop could care less about DOT certification of aftermarket belts as his intent (and authority) is to enforce state law.

Here in WA, state law says that harness belts of any type are not legal for street use. Period.