Labor Day Weekend at Roebling-The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
09-05-2011, 08:06 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Labor Day Weekend at Roebling-The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Three days at Roebling are always a great time and this past weekend was not an exception. As in all things their are high points and low points in any event. We ran with SeatTime on Friday and NASA-SE on Saturday and Sunday.
The "Good" was really good with low track density on all three days. The weather was actually pretty good for the time of year in Savannah. The track grip was pretty good all weekend. The competition in Time Trial and the races was tight with close finishes. TTS and TTE had a lot of competitors. I was able to sort the car out on Friday and give rides all day to friends, students and track workers. The hours I spent working on the car pre-event and the input from all my friends and tech experts (special thanks Danny and David) really paid off with a better car. My Friday student progressed very well and did even better on Saturday and Sunday. Khoi lent me a pair of his scrubs after my front scrubs corded. I was able to get several sessions playing with Khoi on the track playing lead/follow. Getting out with an equivalent /driver and just playing is one the best things on a track day. With no timers running, video for post event humiliation and no real pressure except for the good natured ribbing afterwards makes it a highlight of any track event. The participants at the events were great all weekend with the Roebling track management being extremely helpful to me. The event organizers both did a masterful job of managing the required paperwork, briefings and crowd control. Josh and I both posted our personal best "Mylaps" times at Roebling Road. A6s are amazing and the Hoosier contingency program is outstanding. The low country boil from Pooler Seafood is the best deal in south Georgia. Berit and Jessie came to the track on Saturday. Nothing can be better then hanging out at a track with your friends.
The "Bad" was spread over several categories. While the weather was good for September, in near coastal Georgia, it was still September, in near coastal Georgia, with humidity there as a reminder that staying hydrated was not only a good idea it was required. The gnats were really aggressive whenever the breeze died down. Fuel prices are a fact of life but nothing says it is supposed to make you happy. Tow fuel and track fuel takes a bite out of the play money. Khoi fought with ABS issues all weekend and had a spectacular 4 wheel lockup drift at T1 on Friday. He never really got the brakes to behave for him and Scott spent most of Saturday under the car. Josh had brake fade at T1 on Saturday and added about 10 pounds of sand ballast to the car. Josh has also watched way too much "Fast and Furious" and enjoys drifting my low heat cycle A6s. With low track density comes low profit margin (or even loss) so I am hoping NASA-SE can continue to run at Roebling (maybe with a better weekend). It is amazing how many people cannot read, or choose not to, schedules and rules. Maybe "mandatory" means something else in a modern dictionary. Being a parent helps deal with it since you are used to the tantrums of 2 year olds and the excuses of teenagers.
The "Ugly" was pretty ugly but could have been way worse. After 6 months of Time Trial, and half of the event at Roebling, being very clean with no incidents impacting the schedule John Haff broke the streak by rolling his Miata at Turn 4. The great news is our safety equipment works and John crawled out of his upside down car OK. John hitting something, catching on fire or blowing up in that cursed Miata is nothing new but rollover was a new trick. It took a while to clean up. John biggest concern was he had lost a new track record due to being DQ'd. John also drove the car later in a session until he lost oil pressure. Some people are just not right! The really ugly event happened in our next session. About lap three the Subaru running in the 4th or 5th position shredded a transmission/diff/transfer case coming out of T7 and exited the track at the corner stand for T8/9. I was on grid since it was Josh's stint in the car. I saw the car smoking and come to a stop (I thought it was the SRT4 initially due to heavy smoke). I immediately saw an S2000 spin off track left and at that point told the grid workers to radio in for a black/red flag since I knew the track was oiled down, had antifreeze on it or both. No flag was thrown at the T8/9 corner at all. I knew the flag that mattered was at T6. Since my son was in spot two coming around in about 50 seconds I was not happy. I also knew the bulk of the field was hitting it as I watched helplessly. It was truly ugly with a dozen cars going off. The flags were not thrown (and then it was a yellow and/or debris flag) for a full lap. The first car to make it through never saw a flag (he knew to pit) and all the ones in front of the incident never had one. One S2000 that hit the oil was stuck in the tire wall for a full minute (seeing no flag) when a BMW hit the oil and then hit him. In the meetings I talked about how you never really know with a yellow what it means until you see the incident. I also talked about how corner workers (and I love them and used to be one) can make errors or miss things and to look ahead for signs of trouble. Josh saw all the smoke and dust so he lifted entering T6 using his truly outstanding judgment. Pat was right behind him (naturally) and he knew Josh would not lift without a reason so he lifted also. One reason I like to race with people I know and trust! They then threaded through carmageddon to make the pit (never saw a flag). They were on pit road when the red was thrown. Luckily no one was hurt. There is absolutely no excuse for this incident going from bad (the first couple cars to a scene of the accident are just unlucky) to a dozen cars off. There are probably many reasons, with some having validity, but there are none that can justify this. Since I advise video cameras for all TT cars there was video from multiple viewpoints from participants and the owner of the Subaru was filming at the time from the paddock. The lessons learned from this experience need to be applied and not debated.
This experience has put a two way radio system next on my list since I had no way to communicate the danger to Josh since I knew flags had not been thrown. Luckily for me Josh used the sense his mother gave him to do the right thing. Situational awareness keeps people alive and equipment undamaged.
The "Good" was really good with low track density on all three days. The weather was actually pretty good for the time of year in Savannah. The track grip was pretty good all weekend. The competition in Time Trial and the races was tight with close finishes. TTS and TTE had a lot of competitors. I was able to sort the car out on Friday and give rides all day to friends, students and track workers. The hours I spent working on the car pre-event and the input from all my friends and tech experts (special thanks Danny and David) really paid off with a better car. My Friday student progressed very well and did even better on Saturday and Sunday. Khoi lent me a pair of his scrubs after my front scrubs corded. I was able to get several sessions playing with Khoi on the track playing lead/follow. Getting out with an equivalent /driver and just playing is one the best things on a track day. With no timers running, video for post event humiliation and no real pressure except for the good natured ribbing afterwards makes it a highlight of any track event. The participants at the events were great all weekend with the Roebling track management being extremely helpful to me. The event organizers both did a masterful job of managing the required paperwork, briefings and crowd control. Josh and I both posted our personal best "Mylaps" times at Roebling Road. A6s are amazing and the Hoosier contingency program is outstanding. The low country boil from Pooler Seafood is the best deal in south Georgia. Berit and Jessie came to the track on Saturday. Nothing can be better then hanging out at a track with your friends.
The "Bad" was spread over several categories. While the weather was good for September, in near coastal Georgia, it was still September, in near coastal Georgia, with humidity there as a reminder that staying hydrated was not only a good idea it was required. The gnats were really aggressive whenever the breeze died down. Fuel prices are a fact of life but nothing says it is supposed to make you happy. Tow fuel and track fuel takes a bite out of the play money. Khoi fought with ABS issues all weekend and had a spectacular 4 wheel lockup drift at T1 on Friday. He never really got the brakes to behave for him and Scott spent most of Saturday under the car. Josh had brake fade at T1 on Saturday and added about 10 pounds of sand ballast to the car. Josh has also watched way too much "Fast and Furious" and enjoys drifting my low heat cycle A6s. With low track density comes low profit margin (or even loss) so I am hoping NASA-SE can continue to run at Roebling (maybe with a better weekend). It is amazing how many people cannot read, or choose not to, schedules and rules. Maybe "mandatory" means something else in a modern dictionary. Being a parent helps deal with it since you are used to the tantrums of 2 year olds and the excuses of teenagers.
The "Ugly" was pretty ugly but could have been way worse. After 6 months of Time Trial, and half of the event at Roebling, being very clean with no incidents impacting the schedule John Haff broke the streak by rolling his Miata at Turn 4. The great news is our safety equipment works and John crawled out of his upside down car OK. John hitting something, catching on fire or blowing up in that cursed Miata is nothing new but rollover was a new trick. It took a while to clean up. John biggest concern was he had lost a new track record due to being DQ'd. John also drove the car later in a session until he lost oil pressure. Some people are just not right! The really ugly event happened in our next session. About lap three the Subaru running in the 4th or 5th position shredded a transmission/diff/transfer case coming out of T7 and exited the track at the corner stand for T8/9. I was on grid since it was Josh's stint in the car. I saw the car smoking and come to a stop (I thought it was the SRT4 initially due to heavy smoke). I immediately saw an S2000 spin off track left and at that point told the grid workers to radio in for a black/red flag since I knew the track was oiled down, had antifreeze on it or both. No flag was thrown at the T8/9 corner at all. I knew the flag that mattered was at T6. Since my son was in spot two coming around in about 50 seconds I was not happy. I also knew the bulk of the field was hitting it as I watched helplessly. It was truly ugly with a dozen cars going off. The flags were not thrown (and then it was a yellow and/or debris flag) for a full lap. The first car to make it through never saw a flag (he knew to pit) and all the ones in front of the incident never had one. One S2000 that hit the oil was stuck in the tire wall for a full minute (seeing no flag) when a BMW hit the oil and then hit him. In the meetings I talked about how you never really know with a yellow what it means until you see the incident. I also talked about how corner workers (and I love them and used to be one) can make errors or miss things and to look ahead for signs of trouble. Josh saw all the smoke and dust so he lifted entering T6 using his truly outstanding judgment. Pat was right behind him (naturally) and he knew Josh would not lift without a reason so he lifted also. One reason I like to race with people I know and trust! They then threaded through carmageddon to make the pit (never saw a flag). They were on pit road when the red was thrown. Luckily no one was hurt. There is absolutely no excuse for this incident going from bad (the first couple cars to a scene of the accident are just unlucky) to a dozen cars off. There are probably many reasons, with some having validity, but there are none that can justify this. Since I advise video cameras for all TT cars there was video from multiple viewpoints from participants and the owner of the Subaru was filming at the time from the paddock. The lessons learned from this experience need to be applied and not debated.
This experience has put a two way radio system next on my list since I had no way to communicate the danger to Josh since I knew flags had not been thrown. Luckily for me Josh used the sense his mother gave him to do the right thing. Situational awareness keeps people alive and equipment undamaged.
09-05-2011, 09:13 AM
#4
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Excellent write up as always, Jeff. I am forwarding this to a couple of track day organizers. Good info for classroom. Although the corner workers do a fantastic job, the drivers have to be aware at all times, too. I hope your temperature issues are resolved.
09-05-2011, 09:23 AM
#5
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Wish we could have stayed the weekend but it turned out to be a good call to go home Friday night and help with work. TS Lee didn't scare away many vistiors wanting to get one last weekend at the beach so we stayed busy through the wind, rain, lighting and dark of night this weekend.
Nice to see everyone, we had a good time. Thanks
Nice to see everyone, we had a good time. Thanks
09-05-2011, 10:10 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-05-2011, 11:41 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-05-2011, 11:46 AM
#11
Safety Car
This same thing happened at Road Atlanta in August or maybe it was June, but a Porsche blew up in turn 1 but I think the checkered had flown, however no one threw a flag and car after car went through there tank slapping with one almost impacting the inside wall. Took forever for them to throw a yellow.
Definitely needs to be addressed.
Definitely needs to be addressed.
09-05-2011, 12:18 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
This same thing happened at Road Atlanta in August or maybe it was June, but a Porsche blew up in turn 1 but I think the checkered had flown, however no one threw a flag and car after car went through there tank slapping with one almost impacting the inside wall. Took forever for them to throw a yellow.
Definitely needs to be addressed.
Definitely needs to be addressed.
09-05-2011, 03:49 PM
#14
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09-05-2011, 03:55 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
They took forever to throw a flag as well when John rolled over in an impact zone.
Hopefully Jim will have a talking to the workers. I did notice they added a flagger in the turn 8 box after the incident.
I just know that when I took my turn at learning to flag and flagging at more than a few events I paid attention to the guys that did it as a part time job and know its tough out there. However you are the eyes and ears out there and have to communicate as much as you can to the drivers. You have to get the flags out and waving as quickly as possible, you stay in the box and call it in. If you call it in as it happens that ambulance can be there long before you could get to the incident and it is SAFER!
Even without a car I had a good time and enjoyed the company. My student did great and had a good time.
Hopefully Jim will have a talking to the workers. I did notice they added a flagger in the turn 8 box after the incident.
I just know that when I took my turn at learning to flag and flagging at more than a few events I paid attention to the guys that did it as a part time job and know its tough out there. However you are the eyes and ears out there and have to communicate as much as you can to the drivers. You have to get the flags out and waving as quickly as possible, you stay in the box and call it in. If you call it in as it happens that ambulance can be there long before you could get to the incident and it is SAFER!
Even without a car I had a good time and enjoyed the company. My student did great and had a good time.
09-05-2011, 04:02 PM
#16
09-05-2011, 05:52 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
With all the finger pointing going on in the nasa thread, I think Tim has it right.
It's hard to argue with that.
If a car spins off, sits in a dangerous area and gets hit by another spinning car approx. 1 minute later, there is a failure in the system somewhere that has to be examined.
09-05-2011, 07:19 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-05-2011, 07:21 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I remember you saying your driver had been pushing 120 or so all day at the bottom of the hill where the antifreeze started. That will pull the leather off the bottom of your seat! Glad I was behind the porsche to see the hose let go and move off line. The bottom of T12 is in a bad place for flag station/coolant spill but did not realize they delayed that long on the flags.
