Need help electrical problem on track car
02-23-2012, 12:56 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Need help electrical problem on track car
Hey Guys here is my problem.. i have a 06 c6 that we have converted to a full track car .. we gutted the interior to install a full roll cage.. after the cage was done everything was working fine on the car.. staterd normal dash worked ... but last weekend i relocated the battery to the back with 1gauge wire and a braille battery ,, ground to the rear of the chassis, ground from the motor to the chassis,, 1 gauge battery wire to a kill switch.. when we went to start the car we only got a click click click sound from the starter.. after checking all the battery wires for Resistance and finding everything perfect .. we still have a problem like a low battey clicking, checked voltage 13v... well we got a good friend who works at a GM dealer and he specialize in computer and electrical to come out and find the problem ... After some testing he narrowed it do to a problem with the fuse panel under hood... well today i got a new fuse panel and the same thing happen
we have replace the starter, we have changed batterys, cables, and last the fuse panel...
the red light on the start switch is sometime dim as well as the green light but sometime its get very bright but the moment you push the start it all go's dim...
we can go to the start relay and make it turn over but click click click if we us the start button..
this is a real brain teaser so has anyone had this problem and what do i need to do to fix it,,,
Thank you in advance for your response...
Manny Sanchez
305-333-4445
we have replace the starter, we have changed batterys, cables, and last the fuse panel...
the red light on the start switch is sometime dim as well as the green light but sometime its get very bright but the moment you push the start it all go's dim...
we can go to the start relay and make it turn over but click click click if we us the start button..
this is a real brain teaser so has anyone had this problem and what do i need to do to fix it,,,
Thank you in advance for your response...
Manny Sanchez
305-333-4445
02-23-2012, 04:19 AM
#2
Drifting
The problem is you are not able to pull enough current when you are trying to start the car.
The cause of that problem is hard to say because I can't look at the car directly. Sounds like you already had someone knowledgable look at it, diagnose the problem but that didn't fix it...thus an incorrect diagnosis.
My guess would be one of two things: 1. A battery that has enough juice to light everything up but can't supply the current to start the car or 2. A poor grounding system.
On a forum we are going to need a wiring diagram with the type of wire and connectors at each spot as well as some pictures. However, I would start with telling us more about the ground from the battery to the chassis and the ground from the motor to the chassis. What kind of wire, connectors, where SPECIFICALLY is the ground and how's it attached.
Jay
The cause of that problem is hard to say because I can't look at the car directly. Sounds like you already had someone knowledgable look at it, diagnose the problem but that didn't fix it...thus an incorrect diagnosis.
My guess would be one of two things: 1. A battery that has enough juice to light everything up but can't supply the current to start the car or 2. A poor grounding system.
On a forum we are going to need a wiring diagram with the type of wire and connectors at each spot as well as some pictures. However, I would start with telling us more about the ground from the battery to the chassis and the ground from the motor to the chassis. What kind of wire, connectors, where SPECIFICALLY is the ground and how's it attached.
Jay
Last edited by crease-guard; 02-23-2012 at 04:23 AM.
02-23-2012, 08:14 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
Have you tried a different battery with the current setup?
13V seems borderline. My car needs 13.4 minimum and I'm usually at 14.2. 12.9 and I click too.
Mike
13V seems borderline. My car needs 13.4 minimum and I'm usually at 14.2. 12.9 and I click too.
Mike
02-23-2012, 09:27 AM
#7
Pro
Thread Starter
The problem is you are not able to pull enough current when you are trying to start the car.
The cause of that problem is hard to say because I can't look at the car directly. Sounds like you already had someone knowledgable look at it, diagnose the problem but that didn't fix it...thus an incorrect diagnosis.
My guess would be one of two things: 1. A battery that has enough juice to light everything up but can't supply the current to start the car or 2. A poor grounding system.
On a forum we are going to need a wiring diagram with the type of wire and connectors at each spot as well as some pictures. However, I would start with telling us more about the ground from the battery to the chassis and the ground from the motor to the chassis. What kind of wire, connectors, where SPECIFICALLY is the ground and how's it attached.
Jay
The cause of that problem is hard to say because I can't look at the car directly. Sounds like you already had someone knowledgable look at it, diagnose the problem but that didn't fix it...thus an incorrect diagnosis.
My guess would be one of two things: 1. A battery that has enough juice to light everything up but can't supply the current to start the car or 2. A poor grounding system.
On a forum we are going to need a wiring diagram with the type of wire and connectors at each spot as well as some pictures. However, I would start with telling us more about the ground from the battery to the chassis and the ground from the motor to the chassis. What kind of wire, connectors, where SPECIFICALLY is the ground and how's it attached.
Jay
we have changed back to the original battery that i had in the car ran a short lead from the battery in its original place next to the motor and ran a lead straight to the block and still click click ... we can turn over the motor if we manually press the relay and it turns over with lots of power from either the new battery in the back and the original place3d up front.. so it not a battery problem...
the reason we thought it was the fuse block was that the rest of the power that feed all the computers and fuse panel inside come from th out side fuse panel and we thought there may be a small short when you try to start the system seem like it rebooting as sometime the gauge panel is light up and the start button is bright and when you hit the start button it all shots down .. so i am going to go thru all the ground .. i am also looking at the start button as i read thy have also given some problem.... this problem just started the car was running fine before.. he had reinstalled the dash and it was running fine,, re relocated the battery and ran the new wires and now this,,,
again all the battery wire have been checked and to elimanate that we reinstalled the battery up front using a short leads still the problem..
keep the suggestions coming some how we will get this fixed..
Thank you guys in advance..
Manny
02-23-2012, 09:36 AM
#8
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2005
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I had the same problem on a C6 race car we built. It is not a battery power problem.
I will have to go back and look at the cirrcuits but it is because the computer isn't "seeing" a signal it needs. I will review what I did to fix it on our car and let you know.
It was something like having to splice an extra wire into the start relay circuit.
The differencee for us is we eliminated the GM start button and added a start switch on our control panel. This is slightly different than what you are trying to do. I will see if I can remember what in the computer wasn't happy and let you know.
I will have to go back and look at the cirrcuits but it is because the computer isn't "seeing" a signal it needs. I will review what I did to fix it on our car and let you know.
It was something like having to splice an extra wire into the start relay circuit.
The differencee for us is we eliminated the GM start button and added a start switch on our control panel. This is slightly different than what you are trying to do. I will see if I can remember what in the computer wasn't happy and let you know.
02-23-2012, 02:18 PM
#10
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Update: The start circuit depends on what year car you have. The 08 starting schematic shows the start button signals the BCM the driver wants to start the engine, from there the BCM sends a signal to the ECM across the serial data line and the ECM activates the crank relay.
The 05 starting schematic is more involved with both the BCM and ECM controlling the crank relay power and ground connections.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 02-23-2012 at 02:31 PM.
02-23-2012, 05:25 PM
#12
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Are you sure your clutch switch is working properly? If you manually activate the crank relay you bypass the effect of the clutch switch. In the 05 through 07 cars the switch is in the direct path of the crank relay coil voltage supply with the voltage source being the BCM. The ECM then provides a switched ground. In the 08 and later cars the switch feeds the ECM and the ECM decides whether to apply voltage to the coil with the other side of the relay coil being connected directly to ground.
Bill
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 02-23-2012 at 05:30 PM.
02-23-2012, 11:15 PM
#13
Pro
Thread Starter
guy there are 2 thing i haven't checked... one is the main start switch and the other is the Clutch switch...
i am going to check them both out by replacing the start switch and who knows maybe the clutch switch is not working like its supposed to.. keep sending ideas.. we are breaking ou heads... we were supposed t be testing this weekend at Homestead but it sure doesn't look good...
i really appreciate all your help...
regards,,, Manny
i am going to check them both out by replacing the start switch and who knows maybe the clutch switch is not working like its supposed to.. keep sending ideas.. we are breaking ou heads... we were supposed t be testing this weekend at Homestead but it sure doesn't look good...
i really appreciate all your help...
regards,,, Manny
02-24-2012, 09:11 AM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
thing just don't make sense ..,,, i can get it to turn over by manually hitting the starter relay so there is plenty of battery juice ,,, i must be missing something .. its seem like the rest of the car electrical is getting intermittent current when you attempt to start with the starter button... something the red light and the green on the button is very bright and sometime they are dim .. what else feed power to the inside panel and computers?
keep it coming guys every little bit works..
02-24-2012, 09:32 AM
#16
Drifting
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yes Trackboss there is a fusible Link that come down to the starter it mounts at the post on the starter with the battery power lead and a lead that gos up to the fuse panel... i believe that the fusible link wire comes from the alternator but not sure...
thing just don't make sense ..,,, i can get it to turn over by manually hitting the starter relay so there is plenty of battery juice ,,, i must be missing something .. its seem like the rest of the car electrical is getting intermittent current when you attempt to start with the starter button... something the red light and the green on the button is very bright and sometime they are dim .. what else feed power to the inside panel and computers?
keep it coming guys every little bit works..
thing just don't make sense ..,,, i can get it to turn over by manually hitting the starter relay so there is plenty of battery juice ,,, i must be missing something .. its seem like the rest of the car electrical is getting intermittent current when you attempt to start with the starter button... something the red light and the green on the button is very bright and sometime they are dim .. what else feed power to the inside panel and computers?
keep it coming guys every little bit works..
What you are doing is completely different than what we did on our race car.
You are just adding a kill switch and keeping the rest stock. We changed the way it started including removing the clutch switch etc.
What I need to know is exactly where you introduced the kill switch and what wires you connected to it.
Your problem is that you are back feeding some circuit and that isn't providing enough current to have that circuit work properly.
A simple test to confirm this is to completely bypass the kill switch you installed and install the battery in its original configuration. This has nothing to do with cable lengths etc. Your cable is plenty big enough for the current. It is just the way GM designed the control circuits etc. If they don't see the right voltages at the right time then some relay doesn't switch because the one before it was late.
02-24-2012, 10:37 AM
#17
Drifting
Yes the fusible link is from the alternator.
What you are doing is completely different than what we did on our race car.
You are just adding a kill switch and keeping the rest stock. We changed the way it started including removing the clutch switch etc.
What I need to know is exactly where you introduced the kill switch and what wires you connected to it.
Your problem is that you are back feeding some circuit and that isn't providing enough current to have that circuit work properly.
A simple test to confirm this is to completely bypass the kill switch you installed and install the battery in its original configuration. This has nothing to do with cable lengths etc. Your cable is plenty big enough for the current. It is just the way GM designed the control circuits etc. If they don't see the right voltages at the right time then some relay doesn't switch because the one before it was late.
What you are doing is completely different than what we did on our race car.
You are just adding a kill switch and keeping the rest stock. We changed the way it started including removing the clutch switch etc.
What I need to know is exactly where you introduced the kill switch and what wires you connected to it.
Your problem is that you are back feeding some circuit and that isn't providing enough current to have that circuit work properly.
A simple test to confirm this is to completely bypass the kill switch you installed and install the battery in its original configuration. This has nothing to do with cable lengths etc. Your cable is plenty big enough for the current. It is just the way GM designed the control circuits etc. If they don't see the right voltages at the right time then some relay doesn't switch because the one before it was late.
02-26-2012, 10:41 PM
#19
Pro
Thread Starter
Guys i already installed the battery back at the stock location .. ran a direct battery lead to the starter and the neg to the block.. still the same thing.. click click click Even with the original battery . so its not the long cables or the kill switch or the battery's.. the starter also has been replaced... i can make it turn over by pressing the starter relay at the panel.. but only click at the start button... very frustrating ..
MANNY
MANNY
02-26-2012, 11:30 PM
#20
Drifting
Now that I've read all the posts, this sounds like a BCM/ECM problem. As others have mentioned, there has to be the proper voltages in the proper sequences to get the car started that way. My suspicion is the theft deterrent circiut is being activated somehom preventing the car from starting.
Jay
Jay