Brakes- track rat and racer advice needed
09-24-2014, 10:42 AM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Brakes- track rat and racer advice needed
currently run 5-6 lapping days, plus some autoX and then street driving. Next season plan to run 8-12 events. I put around 5-7k on the car a year. Currently run Carbotech Xp-10s, titanium backing/insulating plates, stainless lines, ducting to the hub with quantum kit and Motul fluid and i run in the open passing advanced group on lapping days.
After all of this I seem to still boil the fluid and just not get the overall braking experience i expect from a car this fast on the track.
I have contacted several vendors and hung out at races and picked track rats brains on the issue. I am hoping to cast i wide net here to get more feedback from other 1st hand expereince before i drop some coin.
I intend for the car to stay a track and street toy, not ready to strip it and cage it for track/trailer only use, yet...
until that time arrives I would like a kit that noticeably improves braking performance and doesnt completely break the bank in upfront and consumables costs as i would like to put coil overs on the car, and stiffer bushings before next season, and Im not exactly wealthy so i need to be budget minded
I know you have to pay to play, but want to spend wisely if at all possible. So basically i want the unicorn of braking systems right or is there a system that isnt too big a compromise?
I have looked at all 3 AP kits, Brembo, Stoptech and I am currently looking into Willwood, and the C6z06 setup, but i havent seen anyone running the c6z setup on a c5 at the track.
I have read up on anti-knockback springs and understand they increase wear due to the constant contact and pressure on the pad, but i havent been able to get a good answer as to how much more wear.
I have also seen the BBK with dustboots which would be great for my street driven car, but my stock brakes constantly melt those so i question the practicality of that on a car that frequents the track. I also have noticed that these same kits may not have stainless pistons which was highly suggested for track use.
It was suggested i get the c6Z brakes and put on track pads and run that. But i have not seen anyone doing this that actually tracks their car. If this is a good route I would be interested in 2 piece rotors for this setup and figuring out wheel fitment, will 18 inch c5Z rears fit over these calipers? time to do more reading
ok so sorry for the novel of questions, but really want to make an informed purchase i wont regret, and i have been on the forums and at the track and im just not getting a consensus.
thanks!
After all of this I seem to still boil the fluid and just not get the overall braking experience i expect from a car this fast on the track.
I have contacted several vendors and hung out at races and picked track rats brains on the issue. I am hoping to cast i wide net here to get more feedback from other 1st hand expereince before i drop some coin.
I intend for the car to stay a track and street toy, not ready to strip it and cage it for track/trailer only use, yet...
until that time arrives I would like a kit that noticeably improves braking performance and doesnt completely break the bank in upfront and consumables costs as i would like to put coil overs on the car, and stiffer bushings before next season, and Im not exactly wealthy so i need to be budget minded
I know you have to pay to play, but want to spend wisely if at all possible. So basically i want the unicorn of braking systems right or is there a system that isnt too big a compromise? I have looked at all 3 AP kits, Brembo, Stoptech and I am currently looking into Willwood, and the C6z06 setup, but i havent seen anyone running the c6z setup on a c5 at the track.
I have read up on anti-knockback springs and understand they increase wear due to the constant contact and pressure on the pad, but i havent been able to get a good answer as to how much more wear.
I have also seen the BBK with dustboots which would be great for my street driven car, but my stock brakes constantly melt those so i question the practicality of that on a car that frequents the track. I also have noticed that these same kits may not have stainless pistons which was highly suggested for track use.
It was suggested i get the c6Z brakes and put on track pads and run that. But i have not seen anyone doing this that actually tracks their car. If this is a good route I would be interested in 2 piece rotors for this setup and figuring out wheel fitment, will 18 inch c5Z rears fit over these calipers? time to do more reading
ok so sorry for the novel of questions, but really want to make an informed purchase i wont regret, and i have been on the forums and at the track and im just not getting a consensus.
thanks!
09-24-2014, 12:21 PM
#2
Instructor
I have a C5Z that I started autoxing a few years back. I started off on stock brakes with good fluid then got better and moved to sticky tires and dual drivers, etc. I faded the stock pads on an autox course and went to XP8's all around and DBA rotors. As I got faster and faster I learned I was pretty hard on brakes (just my driving style). The XP8 setup did well but it was clear I was still working it pretty hard. I also had pretty notable pad taper and the pedal feel was so-so at best. A trip to the tail of the dragon in the spring pretty much cemented my decision that I had outgrown the stock calipers. Nothing like questionable pedal feel on the edge of a cliff! The car still stopped but it didn't make you feel real comfortable doing so. I managed to snag a used Stoptech ST40/ST60 setup for a great deal. I bought all new hardware from Zeckhausen Racing and had the calipers refinished all for about the cost of the ST60 kit new. The difference truly is night and day. The pedal is extremely consistent, stop after stop, time after time. It's clear from rotor temps and colors that I'm not working everything nearly as hard as I was on the stock sized equipment. Rotors are definitely more money but pads are comparable. Zeckhausen has a complete listing of spare parts readily available (a big plus in my mind) and everything fit up perfectly (18" C5Z rear wheels up front now). I'm running a less aggressive pad for street and autox duty and I expect much better rotor life because of it. I debated for a long time on the AP T1 setup or the Willwood, both with stock sized rotors, but ultimately knowing I was hard on brakes I knew I'd be disappointed down the road if I learned that I needed just a bit more thermal mass. I got a great deal on everything and that helped keep the initial investment down but I would say its absolutely worth every penny of even the cost new. Hope that helps a little!
09-24-2014, 01:06 PM
#3
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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Don't bother with the C6Z brakes unless you like spending money on consumables and fighting some inherent problems in the caliper design.
You mention you are constantly boiling your fluid with the stock brakes. Have you considered that you may be encountering a long pedal due to pad taper. The stock two piston floating caliper is notorious for tapering the pads along their length. This invites piston knockback and increased pedal travel within a few sessions. A lot of times the pedal travel increases to the point the brake pedal drops almost to the floor and you have to pump the pedal to raise it to the point you can heel/toe. Loose wheel bearings can also cause the same problem and if you have both at the same time you can lose the pedal quite rapidly. Boiled fluid results in a spongy pedal that never feels solid.
Two things you can do about a long pedal. The simplest is to use your left foot to softly pump the brake pedal as you approach a turn at wide open throttle. This will move the pads outward toward the rotor and when you finally hit the brake with your right foot you will have a high solid pedal. Along with this you can flip the pads from one side of the car to the other to compensate for the wear on a daily basis. This reduces the amount of knock back that can occur. The other choice is to replace the front calipers or both the front and rear calipers.
First thing C5 drivers should look at is the LG G Stop BBK that uses stock rotors and the wide Wilwood SL6 caliper to provide consistent braking turn after turn and session after session. I did this with my C5Z back in 2005 and kept the calipers on the car until I sold it in mid season 2009. The pads are thick so pad life is great. The pads are also lower cost than some others so consumable costs drop quite rapidly. The pads will still taper but you can flip them from side to side to compensate for the wear. Unlike the stock calipers the taper doesn't cause increased pedal travel. I would flip the pads for every event and as they wore I would use spacer shims to keep the pistons inside the calipers. I also had some phenolic spacers that kept heat transfer down. I could easily get 5 events (10 track days) on a set of pads. I only boiled the fluid one time in 4 years and that was when the pads were almost worn out, the phenolic spacer wasn't installed and the brake fluid I used had dropped its dry boiling point temperature. I used Ford fluid for a lot of years and they changed the fluid from a 550 deg dry boiling point to a 500 degree dry boiling point in ~ 2008. After that I changed over to Wilwood 570.
The biggest downside to this setup was the stock sized rotors. Whether they were GM or NAPA Premium rotors they would last about 3 days before cracking. Front or rear the most they would go was 3 days. Made for a lot of scrap rotors (One time I took 570 lbs of scrap rotors to the junk yard and got $75). The next downside was having two different types of calipers that used different pad sizes. Due to the combination of Wilwood calipers and stock rear calipers I was limited in what pad compounds would work together but Wilwood did make H compound pads for the stock rear calipers. The H pads are very good track pads.
Talk to Todd at TCE, Anthony at LGM, Essex, KNS and several other forum vendors to see what they offer and what the prices are.
I currently have Wilwood W6A calipers on the front of my C6Z and W4A calipers in the rear. The front calipers are bracketed so I can run stock size 14 inch rotors and the rear setup is the standard Wilwood kit that uses a 14 inch 2 piece rotor with a parking brake drum. In the front I currently have Wilwood 2 piece rotors but I carry several stock rotors as spares. The C6Z stock rotor does a fairly good job. They go about 5 days before cracking. I had very expensive AFX/Coleman rotors for a while but they only lasted 7 days before cracking so the economics wasn't in favor of them. The Wilwood 2 piecers on the car now have 10 track days (with a lot of heat checks) and I hope to get 2 more next month. I use Wilwood A compound pads in the front and Hs in the the rear but the pad sizes are the same front and rear so I can swap pads around if I need to. I have two boxes of spare H pads just in case I wear out the front As.
Most of the aftermarket calipers will not have dust boots but I don't see that as a problem. As the pads wear use spacers to keep the pistons depressed into their bores thus reducing the exposure to dirt. Before depressing pistons to change pads use brake cleaner to clean the exposed part of the pistons.
Since dust boots usually turn into crispy critters after a couple of track days I see them more of a detriment Vs a benefit since dirt can be captured in the remnants and it can be difficult to clean the pistons before depressing them.
As for cost I think you will find the Wilwood solution lower cost than the ones from StopTech or Brembo although if you get into the latest versions of Wilwood race calipers with the Thermo Block pistons installed in place of Stainless Steel pistons the price difference can close rapidly. I don't know about the other two brands but Wilwood is no offering Carbon Ceramic rotors that will fit the W6A/W4A and follow on calipers. List price for the rotors is eye opening but the vendors may be able to sell them for less money. The C6ZR1 rotors are in the same price range.
The other consideration is whether or not you need to change your wheels if you go to a BBK. The G Stop kit fits under the stock C5Z front wheels. I think the W6A/W4A kits fit under C5 wheels as well but you would need to check. I am pretty sure you would need to upgrade to different wheels if you go with StopTech or Brembo.
The C6ZR1 brake kit will work on your car if you have the correct wheels. However, I doubt that it would be cost effective compared to the other choices and your usage.
Bill
You mention you are constantly boiling your fluid with the stock brakes. Have you considered that you may be encountering a long pedal due to pad taper. The stock two piston floating caliper is notorious for tapering the pads along their length. This invites piston knockback and increased pedal travel within a few sessions. A lot of times the pedal travel increases to the point the brake pedal drops almost to the floor and you have to pump the pedal to raise it to the point you can heel/toe. Loose wheel bearings can also cause the same problem and if you have both at the same time you can lose the pedal quite rapidly. Boiled fluid results in a spongy pedal that never feels solid.
Two things you can do about a long pedal. The simplest is to use your left foot to softly pump the brake pedal as you approach a turn at wide open throttle. This will move the pads outward toward the rotor and when you finally hit the brake with your right foot you will have a high solid pedal. Along with this you can flip the pads from one side of the car to the other to compensate for the wear on a daily basis. This reduces the amount of knock back that can occur. The other choice is to replace the front calipers or both the front and rear calipers.
First thing C5 drivers should look at is the LG G Stop BBK that uses stock rotors and the wide Wilwood SL6 caliper to provide consistent braking turn after turn and session after session. I did this with my C5Z back in 2005 and kept the calipers on the car until I sold it in mid season 2009. The pads are thick so pad life is great. The pads are also lower cost than some others so consumable costs drop quite rapidly. The pads will still taper but you can flip them from side to side to compensate for the wear. Unlike the stock calipers the taper doesn't cause increased pedal travel. I would flip the pads for every event and as they wore I would use spacer shims to keep the pistons inside the calipers. I also had some phenolic spacers that kept heat transfer down. I could easily get 5 events (10 track days) on a set of pads. I only boiled the fluid one time in 4 years and that was when the pads were almost worn out, the phenolic spacer wasn't installed and the brake fluid I used had dropped its dry boiling point temperature. I used Ford fluid for a lot of years and they changed the fluid from a 550 deg dry boiling point to a 500 degree dry boiling point in ~ 2008. After that I changed over to Wilwood 570.
The biggest downside to this setup was the stock sized rotors. Whether they were GM or NAPA Premium rotors they would last about 3 days before cracking. Front or rear the most they would go was 3 days. Made for a lot of scrap rotors (One time I took 570 lbs of scrap rotors to the junk yard and got $75). The next downside was having two different types of calipers that used different pad sizes. Due to the combination of Wilwood calipers and stock rear calipers I was limited in what pad compounds would work together but Wilwood did make H compound pads for the stock rear calipers. The H pads are very good track pads.
Talk to Todd at TCE, Anthony at LGM, Essex, KNS and several other forum vendors to see what they offer and what the prices are.
I currently have Wilwood W6A calipers on the front of my C6Z and W4A calipers in the rear. The front calipers are bracketed so I can run stock size 14 inch rotors and the rear setup is the standard Wilwood kit that uses a 14 inch 2 piece rotor with a parking brake drum. In the front I currently have Wilwood 2 piece rotors but I carry several stock rotors as spares. The C6Z stock rotor does a fairly good job. They go about 5 days before cracking. I had very expensive AFX/Coleman rotors for a while but they only lasted 7 days before cracking so the economics wasn't in favor of them. The Wilwood 2 piecers on the car now have 10 track days (with a lot of heat checks) and I hope to get 2 more next month. I use Wilwood A compound pads in the front and Hs in the the rear but the pad sizes are the same front and rear so I can swap pads around if I need to. I have two boxes of spare H pads just in case I wear out the front As.
Most of the aftermarket calipers will not have dust boots but I don't see that as a problem. As the pads wear use spacers to keep the pistons depressed into their bores thus reducing the exposure to dirt. Before depressing pistons to change pads use brake cleaner to clean the exposed part of the pistons.
Since dust boots usually turn into crispy critters after a couple of track days I see them more of a detriment Vs a benefit since dirt can be captured in the remnants and it can be difficult to clean the pistons before depressing them.
As for cost I think you will find the Wilwood solution lower cost than the ones from StopTech or Brembo although if you get into the latest versions of Wilwood race calipers with the Thermo Block pistons installed in place of Stainless Steel pistons the price difference can close rapidly. I don't know about the other two brands but Wilwood is no offering Carbon Ceramic rotors that will fit the W6A/W4A and follow on calipers. List price for the rotors is eye opening but the vendors may be able to sell them for less money. The C6ZR1 rotors are in the same price range.
The other consideration is whether or not you need to change your wheels if you go to a BBK. The G Stop kit fits under the stock C5Z front wheels. I think the W6A/W4A kits fit under C5 wheels as well but you would need to check. I am pretty sure you would need to upgrade to different wheels if you go with StopTech or Brembo.
The C6ZR1 brake kit will work on your car if you have the correct wheels. However, I doubt that it would be cost effective compared to the other choices and your usage.
Bill
09-24-2014, 01:30 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I've spent many days at the track with a friend who has the C6Z front calipers on his C5. He loves the brakes but the huge drawbacks are: cost of pads and maintenance.
Since you mentioned budget - the ST60/ST40, AP Racing Endurance and Brembos are all great but pads are mucho $ (albeit the pads do last a long time, but I don't think that makes up for the cost) and rotors about break the bank (note that with AP Endurance you can run a stock C6 rotor by shimming the calipers).
Seriously consider the AP Racing Sprint and the Wilwood SL6 variants - the performance is very good and the pads are much cheaper as are the rotors (running stock size rotors).
Also consider replacing your front spindles with the ZR1 units. See other threads on this topic - they are much stiffer and seem to reduce quite a bit of pad taper - regardless of caliper.
Since you mentioned budget - the ST60/ST40, AP Racing Endurance and Brembos are all great but pads are mucho $ (albeit the pads do last a long time, but I don't think that makes up for the cost) and rotors about break the bank (note that with AP Endurance you can run a stock C6 rotor by shimming the calipers).
Seriously consider the AP Racing Sprint and the Wilwood SL6 variants - the performance is very good and the pads are much cheaper as are the rotors (running stock size rotors).
Also consider replacing your front spindles with the ZR1 units. See other threads on this topic - they are much stiffer and seem to reduce quite a bit of pad taper - regardless of caliper.
09-24-2014, 01:54 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2010
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MAXg - great topic. I hope to meet up with you at one of the local events, I'm signed up for the Turn2 event on Oct 10th and a PCA event at Raceways on the 12th.
With the GS, I've been considering some changes/upgrades without breaking the bank.
Bill Dearborn, thanks so much for all of your comments. I've taken lots of notes.
I've inquired at AP Racing regarding the use of their calipers on stock rotors, very non committal. They won't sell new calipers w/o rotors so for right now for me, the price of admission is too high.
I read Bill's comments using Wilwood calipers and I believe you can buy the calipers without the rotors, reducing the cost considerably. I like the idea of lighter 2-piece rotors but can't really afford it right now and as Bill says, the stock rotors are very cost efficient.
With the possible upgrade to Carbon Ceramic rotors, I can see going down that path as soon as funds permit.
With the GS, I've been considering some changes/upgrades without breaking the bank.
Bill Dearborn, thanks so much for all of your comments. I've taken lots of notes.
I've inquired at AP Racing regarding the use of their calipers on stock rotors, very non committal. They won't sell new calipers w/o rotors so for right now for me, the price of admission is too high.
I read Bill's comments using Wilwood calipers and I believe you can buy the calipers without the rotors, reducing the cost considerably. I like the idea of lighter 2-piece rotors but can't really afford it right now and as Bill says, the stock rotors are very cost efficient.
With the possible upgrade to Carbon Ceramic rotors, I can see going down that path as soon as funds permit.
09-24-2014, 06:16 PM
#6
Pro
AP Racing sprint kit and be done with it. Went down the same path as you and was always disappointed until I got the AP kit. I haven't thought about my brakes since.
09-24-2014, 07:59 PM
#7
Drifting
I have the Hardbar AP T1 kit and run stock rotors. The AKB springs don't contribute to any significant wear.
Buy the Essex T1 kit with rotors, I'm sure that you can shim the caliper if necessary to center it on the stock rotors. I had to shim the Hardbar brackets anyway.
The pads for this caliper are about the least expensive pad profile available in race compounds, and pads are the most expensive consumable.
Buy the Essex T1 kit with rotors, I'm sure that you can shim the caliper if necessary to center it on the stock rotors. I had to shim the Hardbar brackets anyway.
The pads for this caliper are about the least expensive pad profile available in race compounds, and pads are the most expensive consumable.
09-24-2014, 10:17 PM
#8
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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Do you left foot brake? Had an autocrosser driver for a student in an auto that boiled his fluid with constant left foot braking. Have had probably over 100 student drivers, probably a third in vettes and the problem has only arisen a half dozen times. Usually with old DOT 3. Although the conversation of boiling fluid comes up often, it very seldom happens in most HPDE events. Not generally a concern of mine.
09-25-2014, 01:15 AM
#9
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Cleveland OH
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St. Jude Donor '11,'13
currently run 5-6 lapping days, plus some autoX and then street driving. Next season plan to run 8-12 events. I put around 5-7k on the car a year. Currently run Carbotech Xp-10s, titanium backing/insulating plates, stainless lines, ducting to the hub with quantum kit and Motul fluid and i run in the open passing advanced group on lapping days.
After all of this I seem to still boil the fluid and just not get the overall braking experience i expect from a car this fast on the track.
I have contacted several vendors and hung out at races and picked track rats brains on the issue. I am hoping to cast i wide net here to get more feedback from other 1st hand expereince before i drop some coin.
I intend for the car to stay a track and street toy, not ready to strip it and cage it for track/trailer only use, yet...
until that time arrives I would like a kit that noticeably improves braking performance and doesnt completely break the bank in upfront and consumables costs as i would like to put coil overs on the car, and stiffer bushings before next season, and Im not exactly wealthy so i need to be budget minded I know you have to pay to play, but want to spend wisely if at all possible. So basically i want the unicorn of braking systems right or is there a system that isnt too big a compromise?
I have looked at all 3 AP kits, Brembo, Stoptech and I am currently looking into Willwood, and the C6z06 setup, but i havent seen anyone running the c6z setup on a c5 at the track.
I have read up on anti-knockback springs and understand they increase wear due to the constant contact and pressure on the pad, but i havent been able to get a good answer as to how much more wear.
I have also seen the BBK with dustboots which would be great for my street driven car, but my stock brakes constantly melt those so i question the practicality of that on a car that frequents the track. I also have noticed that these same kits may not have stainless pistons which was highly suggested for track use.
It was suggested i get the c6Z brakes and put on track pads and run that. But i have not seen anyone doing this that actually tracks their car. If this is a good route I would be interested in 2 piece rotors for this setup and figuring out wheel fitment, will 18 inch c5Z rears fit over these calipers? time to do more reading
ok so sorry for the novel of questions, but really want to make an informed purchase i wont regret, and i have been on the forums and at the track and im just not getting a consensus.
thanks!
After all of this I seem to still boil the fluid and just not get the overall braking experience i expect from a car this fast on the track.
I have contacted several vendors and hung out at races and picked track rats brains on the issue. I am hoping to cast i wide net here to get more feedback from other 1st hand expereince before i drop some coin.
I intend for the car to stay a track and street toy, not ready to strip it and cage it for track/trailer only use, yet...
until that time arrives I would like a kit that noticeably improves braking performance and doesnt completely break the bank in upfront and consumables costs as i would like to put coil overs on the car, and stiffer bushings before next season, and Im not exactly wealthy so i need to be budget minded
I know you have to pay to play, but want to spend wisely if at all possible. So basically i want the unicorn of braking systems right or is there a system that isnt too big a compromise? I have looked at all 3 AP kits, Brembo, Stoptech and I am currently looking into Willwood, and the C6z06 setup, but i havent seen anyone running the c6z setup on a c5 at the track.
I have read up on anti-knockback springs and understand they increase wear due to the constant contact and pressure on the pad, but i havent been able to get a good answer as to how much more wear.
I have also seen the BBK with dustboots which would be great for my street driven car, but my stock brakes constantly melt those so i question the practicality of that on a car that frequents the track. I also have noticed that these same kits may not have stainless pistons which was highly suggested for track use.
It was suggested i get the c6Z brakes and put on track pads and run that. But i have not seen anyone doing this that actually tracks their car. If this is a good route I would be interested in 2 piece rotors for this setup and figuring out wheel fitment, will 18 inch c5Z rears fit over these calipers? time to do more reading
ok so sorry for the novel of questions, but really want to make an informed purchase i wont regret, and i have been on the forums and at the track and im just not getting a consensus.
thanks!
__________________
Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
Web Site & Direct ordering http://ampdautosport.com/
All major CC and Pay Pal accepted.
Check out Promo code:z28
Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
Web Site & Direct ordering http://ampdautosport.com/
All major CC and Pay Pal accepted.
Check out Promo code:z28
09-25-2014, 02:33 PM
#10
Supporting Vendor
First, do NOT put the C6Z06 OEM brake package on your car for track use. You'll be squandering your money if you do. I've had many, many customers switch to our BBK's after going down that route. They are not a good design for heavy track use.
Please read the reviews on our blog. Those are the sentiments on our kits straight from our customers.
Since you seem to be on a tighter budget, I believe our Front Sprint kit will be the proper choice for you. That was one of the primary drivers for all of the component choices in this kit. Some key budgetary considerations:
You will not find another kit on the market that has components with a similar level of specification. You can buy a cheaper kit, but you won't get everything on the list below.
If you require a rear kit after putting away some more money, we now also offer a matching Rear Sprint kit, which uses the same pad and iron disc as our front kit. That means you can swap front and rear components and generally need to keep fewer spares on hand.
Also of note, Essex has been for a long time, and continues to be a Corvette Forum sponsor, and we plan to be here supporting our customers for the foreseeable future. I personally have been supporting Corvette brake customers for over 10 years on this forum.
Essex / AP Sprint
Here is a complete summary of benefits:
Clears OEM C5Z06 front 17" and rear 18" wheels (when run on front)
Discs are interchangeable with base C5 OEM discs
Caliper pistons sized properly to allow for seamless integration with OEM master cylinder and ABS system
Clears OEM C5Z06 17" wheels and 18" rear OEM C5 Z06 wheels without a spacer
Over 8lbs. of unsprung weight reduction from each front corner of the car vs the stock system, or 16+ lbs. of unsprung weight reduction from the car.
Incredible array of inexpensive race pad options at prices that are nearly $100 lower per set than the OEM pad shape ($150-$225 per set on average). These pads are large/thick enough to handle typical lapping/race sessions
Mitigation of pad knockback due to 4lb. anti-knockback springs in the calipers
Less chance of damaging bleed screws or crossover tubes when changing wheels due to built-in protection
Caliper finish that is more resistant to wear and deterioration
Stainless steel caliper hardware for a long caliper service life under frequent pad change conditions
High temperature, low drag seals that will hold up to track temps better than OEM components= less rebuilding and longer service life
No dust boots to burn up and make a big mess
Simple pad change with one bolt and no spring clips (rather than tapping out the pins)
Extremely compact package for superior wheel fitment
Stainless steel pistons that keep heat out of your brake fluid to resist fluid fade during extended track sessions
Lifetime professional caliper rebuilding support by Essex (at a fee)- pull off your calipers, send them to us, we clean, inspect, and rebuild them
High airflow, heavy duty AP Racing J Hook brake discs that are over 1lbs. lighter than the OEM units, available at an extremely competitive replacement price ($250 each).
AP Racing J Hook slot design that gives more pad bite/feel, and distributes heat evenly throughout the disc
Disc metallurgy specifically designed to handle the temps typically seen on track offers a long service life
Highest quality, Spiegler stainless steel brake line with clear sheath that reduces compliance over OEM rubber design.
As for AKB springs, they don't cause any increased wear. Here's a post I made in another thread:
Please read the reviews on our blog. Those are the sentiments on our kits straight from our customers.
Since you seem to be on a tighter budget, I believe our Front Sprint kit will be the proper choice for you. That was one of the primary drivers for all of the component choices in this kit. Some key budgetary considerations:
- Replacement race pads are typically in the $150-$225 range.
- Our kit can be run with OEM style discs if needed.
- Our kit fits behind OEM C5 Z06 wheels (front 17's, or rear 18's run on front)...no need to buy expensive aftermarket wheels.
- Spare iron is only $249 each, and they last a very long time for most people.
You will not find another kit on the market that has components with a similar level of specification. You can buy a cheaper kit, but you won't get everything on the list below.
If you require a rear kit after putting away some more money, we now also offer a matching Rear Sprint kit, which uses the same pad and iron disc as our front kit. That means you can swap front and rear components and generally need to keep fewer spares on hand.
Also of note, Essex has been for a long time, and continues to be a Corvette Forum sponsor, and we plan to be here supporting our customers for the foreseeable future. I personally have been supporting Corvette brake customers for over 10 years on this forum.
Essex / AP Sprint
Here is a complete summary of benefits:
Clears OEM C5Z06 front 17" and rear 18" wheels (when run on front)
Discs are interchangeable with base C5 OEM discs
Caliper pistons sized properly to allow for seamless integration with OEM master cylinder and ABS system
Clears OEM C5Z06 17" wheels and 18" rear OEM C5 Z06 wheels without a spacer
Over 8lbs. of unsprung weight reduction from each front corner of the car vs the stock system, or 16+ lbs. of unsprung weight reduction from the car.
Incredible array of inexpensive race pad options at prices that are nearly $100 lower per set than the OEM pad shape ($150-$225 per set on average). These pads are large/thick enough to handle typical lapping/race sessions
Mitigation of pad knockback due to 4lb. anti-knockback springs in the calipers
Less chance of damaging bleed screws or crossover tubes when changing wheels due to built-in protection
Caliper finish that is more resistant to wear and deterioration
Stainless steel caliper hardware for a long caliper service life under frequent pad change conditions
High temperature, low drag seals that will hold up to track temps better than OEM components= less rebuilding and longer service life
No dust boots to burn up and make a big mess
Simple pad change with one bolt and no spring clips (rather than tapping out the pins)
Extremely compact package for superior wheel fitment
Stainless steel pistons that keep heat out of your brake fluid to resist fluid fade during extended track sessions
Lifetime professional caliper rebuilding support by Essex (at a fee)- pull off your calipers, send them to us, we clean, inspect, and rebuild them
High airflow, heavy duty AP Racing J Hook brake discs that are over 1lbs. lighter than the OEM units, available at an extremely competitive replacement price ($250 each).
AP Racing J Hook slot design that gives more pad bite/feel, and distributes heat evenly throughout the disc
Disc metallurgy specifically designed to handle the temps typically seen on track offers a long service life
Highest quality, Spiegler stainless steel brake line with clear sheath that reduces compliance over OEM rubber design.
As for AKB springs, they don't cause any increased wear. Here's a post I made in another thread:
I had a question in a different thread regarding Anti-KnockBack (AKB) Springs that are included in the calipers in our kits. I thought I'd post it here as well, since I've had several people ask about this recently.
I was asked if there are any negatives associated with running AKB springs.
Short answer= No
Long answer=
The amount of knockback that occurs definitely varies by vehicle, and depends on the amount of deflection seen in the hub, bearing, spindle, etc. This can be an issue on C5 and C6 Corvettes. You'll note that some around here switch to ZR1 spindles to mitigate the issue.
There are no major downsides to a light AKB spring as long as the caliper was designed for it. More specifically, the shape and material of the piston seal. The AP Racing competition six piston calipers used in both the AP Racing Factory Kit and our Essex Designed AP Racing Kit are designed to work with AKB springs. I posted about this the other day on a different forum, but it's applicable here:
As you're driving the suspension is constantly compressing, the disc is moving around laterally, etc., and the pads are being pushed slightly away from the disc. Think of the seals in the caliper as a spring or hinge attached to the side of the piston, rather than just a ring through which the piston slides. In the AP Racing competition calipers under discussion, the groove the seal sits in isn't a square cut groove. It has angles. When forces push the piston in or out there is friction between the outer piston wall and the seal. The seal distorts a bit...visually, think of it like this:
A caliper piston sliding out to the left would make the seal look like this (the slashes are the seals on either side of the piston):
/
---
---
\
As it slides back in to the right, the seal does this:
\
---
---
/
There is a certain amount of tension or friction that needs to be overcome before the piston even starts moving through the seal ring. That tension/friction keeps the piston from dragging on the disc once the pistons are pushed back into the bores by the disc/suspension movement.
When AKB springs are added, a little more force is required to push the pistons back into their bores than would be required without them, and the spring's unloading after being compressed pushes the piston back to 'neutral.'
So all you're doing with the proper seal and spring are trying to keep the piston in the 'neutral' position, not pressed against the disc. I think that's where a lot of the misunderstanding occurs. The piston is still able to slide almost freely in either direction, but a bit of friction or tension needs to be overcome initially to get it moving in either direction. The seal offers that first bit of friction to limit movement, and then the spring provides additional resistance. The brakes won't drag, create additional or unnecessary wear, etc.
Typically in street driving, the lateral forces aren't as great as you'd see on a racecar on slicks, nor are they sequenced as they would be on a track. If you go through a series of S turns on a track on slicks, you're quickly loading the disc back and forth, causing deflection in all of the components described above, and ratcheting the pistons back into the bores. That's when you usually see knockback. You go through a series of turns, hit the pedal, and have to take up all the slack to get the pistons back to the disc. In street driving, you take a slight left at low speed and lateral load...drive straight a while...make another left...come to a stop, etc. It's rare that you'd be going left, right, left, right at heavy lateral loads without touching the brakes. Again, this is why street BBK's don't have AKB springs, but racing kits such as ours do.
All of that sounds nice 'on paper,' but the proof as they say, is in the pudding! To date we've sold hundreds of kits with AKB springs in our Essex Designed Competition Kits, and I've yet to have a single complaint about the springs, dragging brakes, excessive wear in any way related to the springs, etc. It's just not an issue. Since that's the case, I don't really see any reason not to use them if they're available. You get their benefit, without any major downside.
I was asked if there are any negatives associated with running AKB springs.
Short answer= No
Long answer=
The amount of knockback that occurs definitely varies by vehicle, and depends on the amount of deflection seen in the hub, bearing, spindle, etc. This can be an issue on C5 and C6 Corvettes. You'll note that some around here switch to ZR1 spindles to mitigate the issue.
There are no major downsides to a light AKB spring as long as the caliper was designed for it. More specifically, the shape and material of the piston seal. The AP Racing competition six piston calipers used in both the AP Racing Factory Kit and our Essex Designed AP Racing Kit are designed to work with AKB springs. I posted about this the other day on a different forum, but it's applicable here:
As you're driving the suspension is constantly compressing, the disc is moving around laterally, etc., and the pads are being pushed slightly away from the disc. Think of the seals in the caliper as a spring or hinge attached to the side of the piston, rather than just a ring through which the piston slides. In the AP Racing competition calipers under discussion, the groove the seal sits in isn't a square cut groove. It has angles. When forces push the piston in or out there is friction between the outer piston wall and the seal. The seal distorts a bit...visually, think of it like this:
A caliper piston sliding out to the left would make the seal look like this (the slashes are the seals on either side of the piston):
/
---
---
\
As it slides back in to the right, the seal does this:
\
---
---
/
There is a certain amount of tension or friction that needs to be overcome before the piston even starts moving through the seal ring. That tension/friction keeps the piston from dragging on the disc once the pistons are pushed back into the bores by the disc/suspension movement.
When AKB springs are added, a little more force is required to push the pistons back into their bores than would be required without them, and the spring's unloading after being compressed pushes the piston back to 'neutral.'
So all you're doing with the proper seal and spring are trying to keep the piston in the 'neutral' position, not pressed against the disc. I think that's where a lot of the misunderstanding occurs. The piston is still able to slide almost freely in either direction, but a bit of friction or tension needs to be overcome initially to get it moving in either direction. The seal offers that first bit of friction to limit movement, and then the spring provides additional resistance. The brakes won't drag, create additional or unnecessary wear, etc.
Typically in street driving, the lateral forces aren't as great as you'd see on a racecar on slicks, nor are they sequenced as they would be on a track. If you go through a series of S turns on a track on slicks, you're quickly loading the disc back and forth, causing deflection in all of the components described above, and ratcheting the pistons back into the bores. That's when you usually see knockback. You go through a series of turns, hit the pedal, and have to take up all the slack to get the pistons back to the disc. In street driving, you take a slight left at low speed and lateral load...drive straight a while...make another left...come to a stop, etc. It's rare that you'd be going left, right, left, right at heavy lateral loads without touching the brakes. Again, this is why street BBK's don't have AKB springs, but racing kits such as ours do.
All of that sounds nice 'on paper,' but the proof as they say, is in the pudding! To date we've sold hundreds of kits with AKB springs in our Essex Designed Competition Kits, and I've yet to have a single complaint about the springs, dragging brakes, excessive wear in any way related to the springs, etc. It's just not an issue. Since that's the case, I don't really see any reason not to use them if they're available. You get their benefit, without any major downside.
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 09-25-2014 at 02:36 PM.
09-25-2014, 03:30 PM
#11
Drifting
[QUOTE=JRitt@essex;1587908484]First, do NOT put the C6Z06 OEM brake package on your car for track use. QUOTE]
Try good track pads and castrol SRF fluid before spending a ton of money.
There is no good pad for "roadcourse" and street use. Autocross can be done on a street pad. Get used to swapping pads.
Try good track pads and castrol SRF fluid before spending a ton of money.
There is no good pad for "roadcourse" and street use. Autocross can be done on a street pad. Get used to swapping pads.
09-25-2014, 04:48 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
You specifically said track rat/racer input so you are serious about this. Good, it is a serious chunk of change to remedy the brakes on a Vette. My 420rwhp C6 went through
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
09-25-2014, 10:10 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
You specifically said track rat/racer input so you are serious about this. Good, it is a serious chunk of change to remedy the brakes on a Vette. My 420rwhp C6 went through
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
I concur!
09-27-2014, 08:26 PM
#14
You specifically said track rat/racer input so you are serious about this. Good, it is a serious chunk of change to remedy the brakes on a Vette. My 420rwhp C6 went through
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
- C6Z06 brakes
- AP T1 Hardbar 4 piston sprint setup
- Wilwood SL6 with 20mm pads
- Coleman 14" rotors
- AP J hook 12.6" rotors
What did I settle on:
- Stoptech 14" trophy kit for the front from LG
- Stock BASE C6 rear caliper and a cheapo 2 piece coleman rotor (lost Ebrake in the process).
Car is now at 455rwhp and holding up great.
I pissed away a ton of money on pads that I would melt and calipers that would flex and very scary braking situations from lap to lap and race to race. All that crap stopped and the wallet stopped bleeding when I got high quality front calipers Stoptech/Brembo or AP 6 piston top end stuff only, and 14" 2 piece rotors made from very high quality iron, not cheap Chinese crap (coleman). The rear caliper and rotor is not nearly as important, just get a 2 piece to dissipate heat and you will likely get 6 weekends out of track pads for the rear. IF there were a small amount of extra wear due to anti knockback springs it pales in comparison to the benefit of a consistent pedal every corner. Im afraid there is no cheap solution to brakes, only a bunch of mediocre solutions that will bleed you until you land at the top end I just described. Do yourself a favor and skip the bleeding. Just my .02.
I would spend your time looking for used brembos / stoptech
09-29-2014, 02:00 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
OP. I run about the same amount of days on the track as you. Also a DD. I can say I am VERY happy with the Essex/AP Racing Endurance Front kit I put on my car. It stops phenomenally. No fade. No pad taper. I can change between street/track pads in about ~30 minutes (includes jacking car. 
). 
).
09-29-2014, 04:55 PM
#16
Advanced
Thread Starter
Super awesome feedback! thanks everyone for your time!
So it looks like, if I want uncompromising braking a truly BBK with 6 pistons and the whole 9 is what I should save up for. I was hoping for the AP sprint kit or the like, but I really wonder how they hold up to a hard lapping day. i often get a 60 minute lap session in there towards the end of the day when the track thins out after 5-6 previous sessions and thats when the vette really starts to show its weaknesses.
Eventually I will upgrade the rears, but for now I will focus on the fronts. As JerryTX, 63Corvette, cruzin2 and Bluefire pointed out, i dont want to have to buy a kit only to find out if i had spent another grand I would have got what i was truly expecting out of a world class brake kit. Unfortunately the only way to know is to take a car for a few sessions with a specific brake kit, and since this just isnt really a possibility i have to gamble, and if I am going to gamble might as well on a sure bet right? Looks like I will be saving for a 6pot kit and get coilovers the next season Pay to play as they say...
NOW, any preferences or reasons to go with Brembo, or AP, or Stoptech, Or Willwood over the other kits? Pad selection, rotor selection, wheel choices (stock 18s on front fit?) ease of serviceability/rebuild, durability, cost of consumables? again, great feedback like above is whats helpful here in my choosing something I will be happy with. Do the kits other than AP have anti-knockback springs? I am putting together a decision matrix to help guide my choice so this feedback helps a lot.
thanks again! Great community and feedback, much better than the other forums I have been on for my other cars!
So it looks like, if I want uncompromising braking a truly BBK with 6 pistons and the whole 9 is what I should save up for. I was hoping for the AP sprint kit or the like, but I really wonder how they hold up to a hard lapping day. i often get a 60 minute lap session in there towards the end of the day when the track thins out after 5-6 previous sessions and thats when the vette really starts to show its weaknesses.
Eventually I will upgrade the rears, but for now I will focus on the fronts. As JerryTX, 63Corvette, cruzin2 and Bluefire pointed out, i dont want to have to buy a kit only to find out if i had spent another grand I would have got what i was truly expecting out of a world class brake kit. Unfortunately the only way to know is to take a car for a few sessions with a specific brake kit, and since this just isnt really a possibility i have to gamble, and if I am going to gamble might as well on a sure bet right? Looks like I will be saving for a 6pot kit and get coilovers the next season
Pay to play as they say... NOW, any preferences or reasons to go with Brembo, or AP, or Stoptech, Or Willwood over the other kits? Pad selection, rotor selection, wheel choices (stock 18s on front fit?) ease of serviceability/rebuild, durability, cost of consumables? again, great feedback like above is whats helpful here in my choosing something I will be happy with. Do the kits other than AP have anti-knockback springs? I am putting together a decision matrix to help guide my choice so this feedback helps a lot.
thanks again! Great community and feedback, much better than the other forums I have been on for my other cars!
09-29-2014, 10:46 PM
#17
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Posts: 18,363
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Just engineering curiosity here.
09-29-2014, 11:14 PM
#18
Advanced
Thread Starter
Oh yes, I forgot to ask as well, why are Ti shims a bad idea? I was told specifically to use them to help with heat, but I'm a rookie and all ears as I have a lot to learn. Are there better shims out there especially for when pads get lower?
09-30-2014, 11:04 AM
#19
Supporting Vendor
i often get a 60 minute lap session in there towards the end of the day when the track thins out after 5-6 previous sessions and thats when the vette really starts to show its weaknesses.
NOW, any preferences or reasons to go with Brembo, or AP, or Stoptech, Or Willwood over the other kits? Pad selection, rotor selection, wheel choices (stock 18s on front fit?) ease of serviceability/rebuild, durability, cost of consumables? again, great feedback like above is whats helpful here in my choosing something I will be happy with. Do the kits other than AP have anti-knockback springs? I am putting together a decision matrix to help guide my choice so this feedback helps a lot.
Essex/AP Racing Endurance BBK vs. StopTech ST-60 BBK
I was actually the sales manager at StopTech for roughly five years before taking on my current role at Essex/AP Racing. While at ST I was also involved in just about every part of the process of bringing their products to the market (production, product mgmt., component sourcing, etc.). I doubt there is anyone more uniquely qualified to compare their system to ours. Below is a comparison of the components in our kit vs. those in the StopTech setups, but this info also applies in the same manner to other high performance street big brake kits (painted calipers, aluminum pistons, dust boots, drilled discs, etc.) currently on the market.
Here's the breakdown as I see it:
Calipers
Essex version of the AP Racing CP5060 six piston vs. StopTech ST-60 six piston
Anti-knockback springs
AP Racing has them, StopTech does not. People severely underestimate how valuable these springs are. After going through S turns, you'll have a much lower pucker factor in the next brake zone with the AKB springs installed.
Piston type
StopTech= cast aluminum
AP= machined stainless steel, domed back, ventilated
Stainless steel is far superior at keeping heat out of your brake fluid vs. aluminum. The domed back on the AP pistons adds substantial stiffness, which can be felt as a firmer pedal. The ventilation on the piston edges allows for more cooling air circulation. All of these features add up to greater heat rejection around the piston area, ultimately leading to a lower chance of brake fluid boiling and resulting fade.
Weight
StopTech ST-60 is 8.9 lbs.
Our version of the AP Racing CP5060 weighs 6.2 lbs. without pads...approximately 3 lbs. lighter per side than the StopTech ST-60.
Dust Boots
StopTech is a street caliper, and as such uses dust boots. The AP CP5060 has none. If you've ever run dust boots on the track, you'll find that they burn up and cause a big mess almost instantly. Their only value is if you're driving on winter or debris/dirty roads. As soon as they go on track they essentially lose all value.
Seals
Both calipers have quality, high temperature seals.
Pad choice/cost/size
The ST-60 and AP Racing CP5060 use the same basic shape (it was originally an AP Racing shape, implemented many years ago. The D54 radial depth version we use in the CP5060 has an additional 3 mm of surface area along the lower edge, giving a bit more pad volume vs. the D51 pads in the ST-60. Pricing on the two pad shapes is the same.
Stainless Steel hardware
Both calipers have quality stainless steel hardware.
Footprint/size
In addition to weighing much less, the CP5060 has a smaller footprint and tends to offer superior wheel fitment.
Finish
StopTech= painted. Look pretty, but will not look as good after hard use. Red turns maroon/brown, etc. Paint and powdercoat tend to color shift dramatically at track temps. If you're driving through road salt however, they will be better protected than anodized.
AP Racing= anodized. Look 'racier' (like what you see on full-blown race cars like the factory M3 racers) and do not color shift nearly as much. I tell people that they go from grey to ugly grey.
Bracket
Both have high quality anodized aluminum brackets and aircraft quality hardware.
Rebuild Service
Essex offers a lifetime professional reconditioning service. For a $150/caliper you can send your calipers to Essex and have them rebuilt by the same techs who service calipers for NASCAR Sprint Cup and ALMS teams. StopTech can rebuild I believe, but I'm not sure how formalized their procedures, policies, and prices are at this time.
Discs
Design
Discs from both manufacturers are quality castings that are crack resistant and will last a long time under heavy track use. That said, the AP Racing discs are a heavy duty 72 vane internal construction, and patented J hook face slot are the #1 choice at the elite level of motorsports (NASCAR, ALMS, DTM, Super GT, etc.). The exact same discs in our kit won the 2012 championship on Corvette Daytona Prototypes. The StopTech's are only a 48 vane disc with a conventional slot pattern.
Disc hats
Both have a quality design and are made from high grade, anodized aluminum. Both are optimized for weight and airflow.
Weight
Essex/AP Racing hat/disc=17.6 lbs.
StopTech hat/disc= 21-22 lbs.
When you combine the caliper and disc weights, our system weighs 9-10 lbs. less per side vs. StopTech or 20 more lbs. off the nose of the car.
Spare Disc Price
Even though the AP discs offer far more features, pricing is almost the same as StopTech's recently increased price per disc. Replacement iron prices per disc are as follows:
$359 Essex/AP Racing Sprint Kit (355x32mm)
$335 for the StopTech 350x32
Other Items
Wheel Fitment
Our Essex Comp kits sit inboard of the StopTech setup a bit, offering superior clearance. Our kit fits behind C5Z06 rear 18" wheels without a spacer when they're run on the front. Our kit also clears C6Z06 OEM front wheels without a spacer.
Brake Lines
Both systems came with a high quality set of brake lines. The Spiegler lines in our setup use all stainless steel fittings made in Switzerland (assembled and tested in Ohio). The fittings on the ST lines are not quite to the same spec.
Racing Pedigree and Brand Equity
While I'm far from a brand snob, I'd say it's safe to say that AP Racing gets the nod in terms of brand equity, racing heritage, and pedigree. StopTech has had good success in the lower ranks of racing (World Challenge, Grand Am, etc.), but AP dominates at the elite level. Virtually all of the factory Corvette race cars use AP Racing (including the C5.R, C6.R, and C7.R), DTM, etc. Not to mention AP dominates many of the 'money-no-object' markets when teams have a brake choice (non-spec) such as NASCAR Sprint Cup (which btw are extraordinarily tough on brakes, even though they're typically going in a circle!), Super GT, ALMS etc..
While our system is a bit more expensive than the standard StopTech ST-60 kit, you're getting a lot more technology for your money. If you peruse the list above, you'll see that every component in our kit meets or exceeds their specification, and is more closely aligned with professional-level race components. That is intentional. When you factor in the fact that the higher specification components will need fewer replacements, the running costs over a year or two will balance out quickly, essentially negating the initial price difference. You'll also be saving about 9-10 lbs. unsprung weight per front corner with our kit!
Ultimately both companies make a great product. I had an ST-60/ST-40 14" BBK on my Z06 while I worked at StopTech (and an ST-40 kit on my 350Z). Both were solid products made by good people. I'm also still friends with a number of their employees (since I hired and trained most of their current sales staff). When we put our Essex Competition Kits together however, I tried to look at every piece of the StopTech system and produce something that eclipsed its performance, all while keeping the costs at a level that the average enthusiast could afford. My past employment there put me in a perfect position to accomplish this task, and I believe we have succeeded...more technology borrowed from pro racing, higher specification, lower running costs, better fitment, etc. I believe what we're doing is taking things to the next level for the average club racer, HPDE student, and autoX'r, and giving them access to previously unobtainable technology and performance.
I was actually the sales manager at StopTech for roughly five years before taking on my current role at Essex/AP Racing. While at ST I was also involved in just about every part of the process of bringing their products to the market (production, product mgmt., component sourcing, etc.). I doubt there is anyone more uniquely qualified to compare their system to ours. Below is a comparison of the components in our kit vs. those in the StopTech setups, but this info also applies in the same manner to other high performance street big brake kits (painted calipers, aluminum pistons, dust boots, drilled discs, etc.) currently on the market.
Here's the breakdown as I see it:
Calipers
Essex version of the AP Racing CP5060 six piston vs. StopTech ST-60 six piston
Anti-knockback springs
AP Racing has them, StopTech does not. People severely underestimate how valuable these springs are. After going through S turns, you'll have a much lower pucker factor in the next brake zone with the AKB springs installed.
Piston type
StopTech= cast aluminum
AP= machined stainless steel, domed back, ventilated
Stainless steel is far superior at keeping heat out of your brake fluid vs. aluminum. The domed back on the AP pistons adds substantial stiffness, which can be felt as a firmer pedal. The ventilation on the piston edges allows for more cooling air circulation. All of these features add up to greater heat rejection around the piston area, ultimately leading to a lower chance of brake fluid boiling and resulting fade.
Weight
StopTech ST-60 is 8.9 lbs.
Our version of the AP Racing CP5060 weighs 6.2 lbs. without pads...approximately 3 lbs. lighter per side than the StopTech ST-60.
Dust Boots
StopTech is a street caliper, and as such uses dust boots. The AP CP5060 has none. If you've ever run dust boots on the track, you'll find that they burn up and cause a big mess almost instantly. Their only value is if you're driving on winter or debris/dirty roads. As soon as they go on track they essentially lose all value.
Seals
Both calipers have quality, high temperature seals.
Pad choice/cost/size
The ST-60 and AP Racing CP5060 use the same basic shape (it was originally an AP Racing shape, implemented many years ago. The D54 radial depth version we use in the CP5060 has an additional 3 mm of surface area along the lower edge, giving a bit more pad volume vs. the D51 pads in the ST-60. Pricing on the two pad shapes is the same.
Stainless Steel hardware
Both calipers have quality stainless steel hardware.
Footprint/size
In addition to weighing much less, the CP5060 has a smaller footprint and tends to offer superior wheel fitment.
Finish
StopTech= painted. Look pretty, but will not look as good after hard use. Red turns maroon/brown, etc. Paint and powdercoat tend to color shift dramatically at track temps. If you're driving through road salt however, they will be better protected than anodized.
AP Racing= anodized. Look 'racier' (like what you see on full-blown race cars like the factory M3 racers) and do not color shift nearly as much. I tell people that they go from grey to ugly grey.
Bracket
Both have high quality anodized aluminum brackets and aircraft quality hardware.
Rebuild Service
Essex offers a lifetime professional reconditioning service. For a $150/caliper you can send your calipers to Essex and have them rebuilt by the same techs who service calipers for NASCAR Sprint Cup and ALMS teams. StopTech can rebuild I believe, but I'm not sure how formalized their procedures, policies, and prices are at this time.
Discs
Design
Discs from both manufacturers are quality castings that are crack resistant and will last a long time under heavy track use. That said, the AP Racing discs are a heavy duty 72 vane internal construction, and patented J hook face slot are the #1 choice at the elite level of motorsports (NASCAR, ALMS, DTM, Super GT, etc.). The exact same discs in our kit won the 2012 championship on Corvette Daytona Prototypes. The StopTech's are only a 48 vane disc with a conventional slot pattern.
Disc hats
Both have a quality design and are made from high grade, anodized aluminum. Both are optimized for weight and airflow.
Weight
Essex/AP Racing hat/disc=17.6 lbs.
StopTech hat/disc= 21-22 lbs.
When you combine the caliper and disc weights, our system weighs 9-10 lbs. less per side vs. StopTech or 20 more lbs. off the nose of the car.
Spare Disc Price
Even though the AP discs offer far more features, pricing is almost the same as StopTech's recently increased price per disc. Replacement iron prices per disc are as follows:
$359 Essex/AP Racing Sprint Kit (355x32mm)
$335 for the StopTech 350x32
Other Items
Wheel Fitment
Our Essex Comp kits sit inboard of the StopTech setup a bit, offering superior clearance. Our kit fits behind C5Z06 rear 18" wheels without a spacer when they're run on the front. Our kit also clears C6Z06 OEM front wheels without a spacer.
Brake Lines
Both systems came with a high quality set of brake lines. The Spiegler lines in our setup use all stainless steel fittings made in Switzerland (assembled and tested in Ohio). The fittings on the ST lines are not quite to the same spec.
Racing Pedigree and Brand Equity
While I'm far from a brand snob, I'd say it's safe to say that AP Racing gets the nod in terms of brand equity, racing heritage, and pedigree. StopTech has had good success in the lower ranks of racing (World Challenge, Grand Am, etc.), but AP dominates at the elite level. Virtually all of the factory Corvette race cars use AP Racing (including the C5.R, C6.R, and C7.R), DTM, etc. Not to mention AP dominates many of the 'money-no-object' markets when teams have a brake choice (non-spec) such as NASCAR Sprint Cup (which btw are extraordinarily tough on brakes, even though they're typically going in a circle!), Super GT, ALMS etc..
While our system is a bit more expensive than the standard StopTech ST-60 kit, you're getting a lot more technology for your money. If you peruse the list above, you'll see that every component in our kit meets or exceeds their specification, and is more closely aligned with professional-level race components. That is intentional. When you factor in the fact that the higher specification components will need fewer replacements, the running costs over a year or two will balance out quickly, essentially negating the initial price difference. You'll also be saving about 9-10 lbs. unsprung weight per front corner with our kit!
Ultimately both companies make a great product. I had an ST-60/ST-40 14" BBK on my Z06 while I worked at StopTech (and an ST-40 kit on my 350Z). Both were solid products made by good people. I'm also still friends with a number of their employees (since I hired and trained most of their current sales staff). When we put our Essex Competition Kits together however, I tried to look at every piece of the StopTech system and produce something that eclipsed its performance, all while keeping the costs at a level that the average enthusiast could afford. My past employment there put me in a perfect position to accomplish this task, and I believe we have succeeded...more technology borrowed from pro racing, higher specification, lower running costs, better fitment, etc. I believe what we're doing is taking things to the next level for the average club racer, HPDE student, and autoX'r, and giving them access to previously unobtainable technology and performance.
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 09-30-2014 at 11:07 AM.
