New vs Scrubs - Hoosier R6/A6
02-11-2015, 01:03 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
New vs Scrubs - Hoosier R6/A6
Has anyone had a good experience buying used Hoosier's from any of the online vendors (JB Racing, John Berget, JFA Phoenix, etc.)?
How did they compare in performance compared to a new set?
A couple years back I bought a couple used sets of Conti Scrubs and while they looked very new they had no grip at all...was like driving on ice.
I usually just buy new Hoosiers but thought I might try to give the scrubs another shot if anyone else has had a good experience. I know from my own experience that the Hoosier's performance falls off slightly, say a second or two off of a 2:00 min lap, after a couple heat cycles. I'm fine with that....I just don't want to buy a scrub set and have them be like all the Contis I had which had no grip at all.
How did they compare in performance compared to a new set?
A couple years back I bought a couple used sets of Conti Scrubs and while they looked very new they had no grip at all...was like driving on ice.
I usually just buy new Hoosiers but thought I might try to give the scrubs another shot if anyone else has had a good experience. I know from my own experience that the Hoosier's performance falls off slightly, say a second or two off of a 2:00 min lap, after a couple heat cycles. I'm fine with that....I just don't want to buy a scrub set and have them be like all the Contis I had which had no grip at all.
02-11-2015, 01:46 AM
#2
Hoosiers must be new, recent date code, stored in bags inside, and used for one weekend only if you don't want to give up significant time. Consensus is largely that, given bagging and climate control, for autocross they are about .2 off after 1 week/6 runs. Another .2 off after a couple of weeks/10 -15 runs. Another .5 off after that.
In my experience a 20 run, 2 month old set was so far off they couldn't even be used for accurate testing/setup. Just fun runs. 30 runs and you have lost seconds and are into cords.
They seem to hold up better for lapping sessions where you can get more and more consistent heat and less slip angle.
Bottom line if you want to be fast, show up on sticker Hoosiers.
In my experience a 20 run, 2 month old set was so far off they couldn't even be used for accurate testing/setup. Just fun runs. 30 runs and you have lost seconds and are into cords.
They seem to hold up better for lapping sessions where you can get more and more consistent heat and less slip angle.
Bottom line if you want to be fast, show up on sticker Hoosiers.
02-11-2015, 10:15 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Only time I ever had a major off was running some A6 scrubs I bought off this forum. 15 minutes into a run they just flat went away. I did get some warning in the turn before the off but I didn't read it and slow down as I should have. Never again will I buy any A6 scrubs.
02-11-2015, 11:00 AM
#4
Racer
Both myself and my hephew have bought A and R scrubs from JB and had pretty good luck with them. I use them as practice, fun , etc so to save my lowest HC tires for Qualify and race sessions.
You can save some real money but just have to know they aren't new. The top guys run these 1 cycle and thats it, that tells you how long they are at their best! I have streched my racing budget this way for quite a while with good luck. Once in while I get a tire or 2 that aren't good and JB has even sent me a replacement when 1 was just plain shot. They are good to deal with and will tell you what they have and it is your call when you buy.
Wish I had the budget to only run stickers! Good luck.
You can save some real money but just have to know they aren't new. The top guys run these 1 cycle and thats it, that tells you how long they are at their best! I have streched my racing budget this way for quite a while with good luck. Once in while I get a tire or 2 that aren't good and JB has even sent me a replacement when 1 was just plain shot. They are good to deal with and will tell you what they have and it is your call when you buy.
Wish I had the budget to only run stickers! Good luck.
02-11-2015, 12:32 PM
#5
Tech Contributor
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The Conti Scrubs will work fine but you have to run them at the correct pressure which is a lot lower than most people are used to running. The first couple of laps the car will feel unstable until the tire gets hot and the pressure comes up. Since they are true race slicks they take a fair amount of camber so if your alignment is set as a compromise between track and street you may not get the performance you are expecting.
I purchased a set of the GTI slicks in late 2013 and used them for 12 track days spread over the last few events of 13 and all of 14. The last two days they were starting to lose grip and the outside corner of one of the front tires was showing some cords. That isn't bad wear for $400 plus installation fees.
Bill
I purchased a set of the GTI slicks in late 2013 and used them for 12 track days spread over the last few events of 13 and all of 14. The last two days they were starting to lose grip and the outside corner of one of the front tires was showing some cords. That isn't bad wear for $400 plus installation fees.
Bill
02-11-2015, 03:57 PM
#6
Supporting Vendor
I dunno... won more than one National event (with other people there) on take-offs from Road racers, and that sat out in the open all winter in an unheated building in PA.
02-11-2015, 05:02 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Do the Hoosiers scrubs sometimes look brand new but have zero grip left in them? That was my experience with the Contis which I'm still not sure how that was possible.
When I run Hoosiers that I purchase new they still are pretty decent even after 2-3 track days (probably 8-12 heat cycles). So these Hoosier 'race scrubs' that I see for sale that supposedly only have 1-3 heat cycles on them should still be decent I would think.
When I run Hoosiers that I purchase new they still are pretty decent even after 2-3 track days (probably 8-12 heat cycles). So these Hoosier 'race scrubs' that I see for sale that supposedly only have 1-3 heat cycles on them should still be decent I would think.
02-11-2015, 10:05 PM
#8
Pro
I no longer buy scrubs from people I don't know or have experience with. But, if you tell John at JBRacing that you want recent date, low heat cycle, near full meat scrubs, that is what you will get. I have purchased many scrubs from him and won many races on them.
02-12-2015, 10:17 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
The same set of A6 tires I had an off with running a track day I got reasonable use out of for autocross on hot concrete afterwords. They would run 10-15 minutes on track then go away like you flipped a light switch on track but were pretty consistent for 5 or 6, sixty second runs for autocross.
I use to buy V710 takeoffs with great results but I bought most of those from one individual.
The first set of V710s takeoffs I purchased came completely apart at the seam. Those were not on the recall list but had a date code that was very soon after the recalled tires.
02-12-2015, 10:50 AM
#10
Drifting
It's hard to know 'what' you're exactly getting when you purchase someone elses tires... but I don't see the big drop off in Road Racing after many months and/or heat cycles.
Yes, New are fastest... no doubt... but after that, if cared for... they can run within 80 to 90% for quite some time.
Best,
Dave
02-13-2015, 01:37 PM
#11
Drifting
I run A6 scrubs from Joe at Pheonix all year long, and typically run the FTD at most of my autocrosses until I am down to cords...
I run conti scrubs from Todd at GT for all my big track events and they are a fantastic tire as a scrub... Ill get plenty of use on his scrubs without worry...
Im not competing for a plastic trophy or a jacket, but I'm plenty competitive....
I run conti scrubs from Todd at GT for all my big track events and they are a fantastic tire as a scrub... Ill get plenty of use on his scrubs without worry...
Im not competing for a plastic trophy or a jacket, but I'm plenty competitive....
02-13-2015, 10:21 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
The Conti Scrubs will work fine but you have to run them at the correct pressure which is a lot lower than most people are used to running. The first couple of laps the car will feel unstable until the tire gets hot and the pressure comes up. Since they are true race slicks they take a fair amount of camber so if your alignment is set as a compromise between track and street you may not get the performance you are expecting.
I purchased a set of the GTI slicks in late 2013 and used them for 12 track days spread over the last few events of 13 and all of 14. The last two days they were starting to lose grip and the outside corner of one of the front tires was showing some cords. That isn't bad wear for $400 plus installation fees.
Bill
I purchased a set of the GTI slicks in late 2013 and used them for 12 track days spread over the last few events of 13 and all of 14. The last two days they were starting to lose grip and the outside corner of one of the front tires was showing some cords. That isn't bad wear for $400 plus installation fees.
Bill
NOTE: WINNING........................Is a WHOLE different question with way more money involved.
02-14-2015, 11:13 PM
#14
Theres a reason some of the best drivers were putting new sticker tires on for each run at solo nationals.
Of course you can win in older tires. But not if someone else has a good day on new tires.
One data point, my 12 run 2 year old bagged set of hoosiers lapped tws at the same pace as a set of michelin ps2's. They pulled peak of 1.3g. New hoosiers peak at 1.7g same track. That is worth many, many seconds.
Of course you can win in older tires. But not if someone else has a good day on new tires.
One data point, my 12 run 2 year old bagged set of hoosiers lapped tws at the same pace as a set of michelin ps2's. They pulled peak of 1.3g. New hoosiers peak at 1.7g same track. That is worth many, many seconds.
02-15-2015, 09:00 AM
#15
Pro
What kind of car? Aero? I've used a couple sets of conti scrubs last year and saw a max of 1.4gs. Buying fresh Hoosiers this spring for racing and wondering what kind of gs they may pull.
Theres a reason some of the best drivers were putting new sticker tires on for each run at solo nationals.
Of course you can win in older tires. But not if someone else has a good day on new tires.
One data point, my 12 run 2 year old bagged set of hoosiers lapped tws at the same pace as a set of michelin ps2's. They pulled peak of 1.3g. New hoosiers peak at 1.7g same track. That is worth many, many seconds.
Of course you can win in older tires. But not if someone else has a good day on new tires.
One data point, my 12 run 2 year old bagged set of hoosiers lapped tws at the same pace as a set of michelin ps2's. They pulled peak of 1.3g. New hoosiers peak at 1.7g same track. That is worth many, many seconds.
02-16-2015, 02:36 PM
#16
Supporting Vendor
A set of tires that's been sitting in Texas heat for 2 years isn't ideal. They are rubber, and rubber does get harder with time, bagged or not. I mean they are vacuumed sealed. 
As for what people do to win, well yeah. And everyone sprays Hoosier's too when it gets hot, except me. And I won the ProSolo Overall on Hoosier's, on a 3436 pound (without driver) Mustang and never sprayed a tire.
As for what people do to win, well yeah. And everyone sprays Hoosier's too when it gets hot, except me. And I won the ProSolo Overall on Hoosier's, on a 3436 pound (without driver) Mustang and never sprayed a tire.