cagotzmann

In order to run my 2010 GS convertible At the local track I require some sort of roll protection. Anyone know of something that looks factory and doesn't do a hack job on the interior.

Charley Hoyt

Be very careful in your search and ask a lot of questions. And don't believe what some sellers tell you. I have not Seen ANY aftermarket bars that are safe. In fact most put you at far greater risk. I had one custom built with the goal of making the car as safe as a hard top without a roll bar. As I got faster even my bar didn't seem safe enough so I upgraded to a race car. Best of luck with your search.

Charley

rocsvette

Most run groups will require an SCCA approved type of roll structure for a convertible.

Charley Hoyt

That wasn't my experience. The groups I ran with only required minimal checks. I was told that the minimum requirement was to pass the broomstick test but no one ever checked it.

cagotzmann

My group requires that the roll protection = height of my head (helmet) + 1". They don't have a spec to follow so I would think a complete roll cage is not required.

FASTFATBOY

Buy a C5 and go have fun, you can buy those cars for 10-12K now.

996toomey

Hello All:

New here just joined.

Does anyone know if a 2017 GS convertible will pass a broomstick test? I want to do a couple track days a year.

Thanks.

Robert

Charley Hoyt

No it won't.

pjazz

I have a 2012 GS Vert and was told I could attend a PDX event with just the factory roll over protection.

BEZ06

First of all - I have never been to an SCCA PDX event, but I think it's sorta their entry level exposure to driving on the track.

However, I would recommend that you get better confirmation about NOT needing "roll over" protection. I advise you to get an SCCA Technical Inspector for the event you're planning to attend to give you a definitive reading on the acceptability of your convertible.

Take a look at this SCCA PDX document:

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1453909994


In there you can read:

I bold-faced some applicable parts, and I think the part where it says "...with the factory roll over protection system..." is particularly important to understand.

What is generally considered a "FACTORY...SYSTEM" is something like in some BMW and Mercedes Benz verts - a "pop-up" rollbar or hoops that automatically extend when the roll over sensors in the car detect that the car is leaning too far and beginning to roll over.

But, maybe your local SCCA region is a little more lax than other regions.

Bottom line - I don't think the Corvette has a "factory rollover protection system" that will be meet the requirements of the organization. However, some regions may interpret the national document differently, and if the PDX is an entry level track event they may be more lenient.

Some tracks and track event organizing groups do allow convertibles - I know there's an event here at Daytona in April the last few years that allows stock verts, and I've seen several Vette verts attend. None of the other organizers of events here allow a stock Vette vert.

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rocsvette

I'm not aware of any factory roll protection in a GS convertible. My guess they are not familiar with your car and are thinking of the pop up roll hoops from the German cars. They may be ok with that but a number of other groups including ACNA I believe no longer accept those as sufficient.

I have instructed at PDX events and I think (I'm not 100% on this) that they allowed convertibles but an instructor rode along and speeds were kept to highway speed, ~70 on the straights. Personally the thought (and the experience) of instructing a student in a coupe running on the straight at high speed ( triple digits) coming up on a car doing 70 or less on the straight can be a huge pucker moment.

pjazz

I have researched this and emailed the person sponsoring the event who said it was ok. I read that on the C6 the a pillars around the windshield are reinforced and considered factory roll over protection. I can't find the rule book I found this on but the 2006 vert and up was considered to have factory roll over protection.

FASTFATBOY

As an instructor, I can tell you I wouldn't ride in a convertible without real rollover protection.

That windshield will not do anything for you in a rollover.

rocsvette

While the A pillars are stronger on more recent vehicles and in 2014 a new standard was released (so all cars since had to meet the newer standards) a convertible still cannot meet the broomstick rule, that is the roll structures being 2" above the top of the helmet. You only have 1 of the 2 required supports; with a convertible, the back deck/trunk edge becomes the second support. When a car rolls over it doesn't balance on 1 roll point like the windshield header, it rolls on 2 contact points.

BEZ06

NO, it absolutely will NOT!!!

The "broomstick test" is where you sit in the car with your helmet on, then they place a broomstick (or any straight edge that's long enough) on the windshield frame, over your helmet, and onto the rollbar/cage/hoop or whatever the other main roll over protection is. The broomstick must commonly be 1" or 2" above your helmet to meet the test requirement when your car is going through a tech inspection.

So....in a stock Vette, if you put a broomstick on the windshield frame, the other end will drop down onto the waterfall area. There's nothing to hold it up over your helmet.

Bottm line - there's no way a Vette without a rollbar or cage can meet the broomstick test.

There's no "factory system" in the Vette that will pop up a rollbar or hoops, as there is in some other verts.

Here are some pictures of the broomstick test - and you can see that a stock Vette vert has nothing to hold up the rear of the broomstick, so NO WAY it will pass!!








Here's a picture of a Corvette that flipped over on a public street (not at a track event) - you can see that he didn't have any rollbar, and the windshield frame didn't do squat to protect the passengers. This is one of the reasons that it's recommended that if you have a harness system (even in a coupe) that you should have roll over protection - the standard shoulder harness will allow your body to slump over and maybe get your head down where you might avoid serious/fatal injury, whereas the harness holds you erect in the seat and would unquestionably cause life-threatening injury in the accident below:




And here's another convertible (Miata, I believe) that had a rollbar that protected him:




Bottom line - if you have a Corvette convertible you'll almost always need a rollbar/cage and arm restraints to run with most all tracks and track day organizations. There are exceptions, but you may have a problem getting an instructor to ride with you.

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pjazz

I appreciate all your concerns but I guess I just don't see much difference in the risk we take on the street everyday. I'm not racing anyone and most on the track will have heightened awareness of obstacles on the track. I've done 3 or 4 HPDE with my previous Coupe. So I'm just going to give it a go.

I'll post later to let you know if I survived.

Here's someone else who gets out in his vert.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tection-2.html

BEZ06

I'm all for you taking your car to the track!!

I don't care if you want to run a convertible. And some track day organizing groups don't care either.

But if this is an SCCA PDX, your local region will probably adhere to national SCCA requirements when running local events in their region.

In the highly litigious society we live in today, everybody wants to cover their azz - and at most all track events, if you're the organizing group, one of the ways to CYA is to not allow convertibles without roll over protection to run.

And the SCCA is one of the groups that, in general, does not allow convertibles without roll over protection. The national SCCA "TIME TRIAL RULES PDX & Club Trials Driver Information" document that I referred to in a previous post has definite rules regarding convertibles. I don't like reposting what I've already posted, but here it is again:


I still think that somebody you've been talking to doesn't understand what you're asking about, or they're not the person that will actually determine if you can run the event.

Here's an excerpt from a document about a Central Florida Region SCCA PDX event earlier this year:

You're not gonna find any info in the Vette Owners Manual that says it has "OEM rollover protection"!!!

I'm sure different SCCA regions can use some discretion in application of the national rules, so perhaps your local region just disregards the national SCCA requirement for convertible roll over protection. However, that's sort of like national requires helmets during track events, but your local region doesn't require you to wear a helmet on the track.

I really think that whoever you've been talking to doesn't fully understand that your car really is a convertible, or what the requirements really are for a convertible to run their SCCA PDX events. I'd hate for you to get all excited to run the event, then get there and get rejected by the tech inspectors.

I recommend you get a firm readout on whether your vert Vette will REALLY meet the tech requirements for your local SCCA PDX event. I'd hate for you to be disappointed when you show up at the event and they won't let you run.

Good luck getting through your tech inspection, and have a great time running the track event! As you said, let us know how it all goes!!

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rocsvette

I created and ran the NCM's HPDE program for almost 10 years and safety was always the #1 concern, even if the participant didn't care. The business with the roll bar question is similar to the questions I got about helmets such as "I can get a helmet for $40 will that be ok?" It comes down to do you have a $40 or a $400 head? As experienced instructors can testify, everything is fine until something goes wrong and when that happens it's faster and more violent than you can imagine.

The people/group that runs an event is considered to be "expert" and therefore held to a higher standard of knowledge than a student, especially a relatively inexperienced one. While you might be willing to risk it that doesn't mean the organizers can give you a pass. I would be very surprised to hear that SCCA, ACNA, BMWCCA, PCA or NCM would allow a convertible.

pjazz

Although its not the SCCA. This organization recognizes the C6 as having factory roll over protection.

https://www.thedriversedge.net/droptop.htm

Before I registered for the event I did send a clear email on the convertible i'd like to run. I just sent an email to the contact person of the event to reaffirm I will be allowed to run. If not I better get my money refunded.

pjazz

Confirmed I'm running.