clearwaterms

My wife gave me an awesome Christmas gift, a choose my own adventure. i can choose one of several different racing "experiences"

I have no "track" experience in my Corvette, so I am looking for something that will help me get started. The car is a stock 08 that will have a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it.

Option 1: 2 day Autocross school. something like the evolution driving school: http://www.evoschool.com/ but I am open to suggestions beyond that.

Option 2: a 2 day HPDE event. I need track insurance, and from what I understand, track insurance covers a weekend for roughly the same price as a single day, so I would likely just go for a weekend.

Option 3: one of any number of those race car experiences, 15 laps, etc. in a NASCAR car, etc. This provides the smallest experience and likely not an option

Option 4: a day of hot laps / practice with high performance go karts (http://sugarriverraceway.com/go-kart...laps-practice/)

Cost will be an issue, i will need to come up with the difference above and beyond the value of the "gift" and I don't want to more than double the cost of the gift as I am concerned that would send the wrong message to my wife.

UrbanKnight

Option one or 2 are your best bang for the buck IMO... You will either leave the experience with the track bug, or you won't.

Not knowing you're background experience, the evo driving school and autocross will help you get a great number of skills that translate well into an HPDE event. It doesn't work in reverse though, LOL HPDE experience does not make a great autox'r

Autocross is a great way to get to know your car, your limits, some of the cars limits, and have a realtively low risk adventure. I think I would vote for that (Number 1) as your best starter... If you really want high speed though, you wont get that with AutoX, so Option 2 would be it.

Opt 3 and 4 I wouldn't have in the lineup...

My $0.02 and I owe you some change..

Also, depending on your location, a lot fo groups will allow passengers if you wanted to get the feel for HPDE and see what you think

BEZ06

My first recommendation would be to attend the Ron Fellows Corvette Driving School at Spring Mountain.

If you get a new C7 it's $1000, and you drive THEIR cars!! So....that's a good reason to tell the wife you need a new Vette!!

However, it's kinda expensive otherwise.

Next is to do an HPDE weekend. Although, for a first-timer, some don't do real good classroom instruction. I REALLY like the Nat'l Corvette Museum events for their great classroom sessions from Chuck Hawks.

Where do you live?? Forum members in your local area will have better advice on what track day organizations might have better events for a novice track driver in your area.

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bigmackloud

Not sure of the details on your car, but keep in mind that if it's a convertible, most tracks require a roll bar.

Do you have an SA approved helmet? A school might provide one, while HPDE typically does not provide one (tho required). Buying a helmet ($200-300) adds some expense unless you think you'll continue to do track days.

Regardless of what you pick, you're gonna have fun!

Mordeth

What a great gift!! I faced the same questions when I first tracked my Vette. While others may have different opinions, here is mine.

Ditch options 3 and 4. Between options 1 and 2, my opinion is option 2. The HPDE events are a blast and you will learn a ton. Depending on where you live and what track/organization are local, a typical weekend event will cost between $500-$800 (some might be higher or lower depending on location).

Some organizers will allow you even to only attend one day as a Novice, thus lowering your cost. However, I don't think you will appreciate the full experience over just one day, as the first day is a whirlwind.

So your plan would be to identify the local track. Then identify which clubs/organizations hold events there. For example, I am local to Watkins Glen. There are a bunch of clubs that host events at this track. Such as: Hooked on Driving, BMW Club, Porsche Club, AUDI club, NASA, Trackmasters, Phoenix etc. You go on their website, become a member and then can register for events.

Most clubs are very friendly to novices. You will be assigned an instructor and will not be "released" until ready, which probably won't occur during the first 1-2 days.

You should prep the car by inspecting the brake pad thickness (should be at least 1/2 pad left) and tires. Other routine maintenance should be done such as a fresh oil change and a brake fluid flush using high temp brake fluid like Motul 600. You should also swap the clutch fluid. Ensure lug nuts are torqued to 100ft/lbs. Remove EVERYTHING from the car except yourself. Arrive with a full tank of gas. There are a lot of other things that can be checked (battery condition, coolant, diff/trans fluid etc), but what I wrote are the priorities.

You will also need a Snell SA2010 helmet or newer, or will need to arrange to borrow/rent one.

I would not do any performance mods to the car. Drive it stock, but ensure you go through a proper inspection ahead of time. Most of the clubs and organizations provide a "tech inspection" sheet on their website that should be completed by either you or a competent mechanic prior to the event.

You will have a blast!! It is so much fun. On my first day in my 600hp Z06 I was being passed by Miatas, Hondas and other 4 cyl **** bangers yet I didn't care as I was only there to have fun and be safe!!

clearwaterms

I have done a few track days on Motorcycles in the past, so I am familar with the experience, but never in a car.

I have a c6 so that isn't an option. An HPDE school is outside of my reach. I live in Chicago, multiple tracks in the north west IL (AutoBahn, Blackhawk) as well as well as Gingerman and Putnam near Indianapolis are all within a 3-4 hour drive.

The car is a 2008 base (LS3, stick shift) hard top.

I do not own an SA approved helmet, and would probably try to rent/borrow for 1 day so i am not making that sized investment that i might not use again.


It is sounding more and more that given the budget as being less than or equal to twice the cost of the gift (I don't want my wife to think her gift was trivial) that something like the Evolution X school might be my best option.

clearwaterms

Could you break down that cost for me? The budget number that I am trying to stay in is that my wife's gift will purchase something. I don't want her to feel like her very generous gift was more of an expense then it was a gift.

phloozy

in my opinion you should think about your future budget then decide between 1 and 2. HPDE is a ton of fun but I cant afford more than 1 or 2 events a year + the wear and tear that comes with it. I can afford a full season of autox though so that was my choice. You either love it or hate it though so you wont know until you try.

On the other hand you dont need any training to get into autox so maybe spend the gift on an hpde event for the experience and then sign up for an autox and see which you like more

UrbanKnight

Your typical Autox Day:
Registration: $50-60, Many autox places loan helmets and allow Motorcycle helmets too
Set tire pressure, check fluids, tighten lug nuts, have fun. The Evo School is around $300 if mmeory serves, and includes entry into an event. Still want fresh fluids and decent brake pads, but its going to be "cheaper" than option 2...

Your typical HPDE:
2 day- $500
Must have a Snell SA helmet
May have to prep the car- Pads/fluids etc
Hotel Stay
Fuel, Food etc..

jesup16

Here's my experience and feedback (assuming you have no autoX or track day experience):
EDIT: Just read you have motorcycle experience. I have a co-worker that is a regular moto track day guy. He took his car for a track weekend and was all over the place... many moto techniques do not work well in cars e.g. late brake / trail brake.

As other's have stated: AutoX and HPDE skills do not always cross pollinate... being good at one doesn't make you good at the other.

I vote for doing a AutoX / Evo school first. Why?

You will learn the how YOUR car operates at the edge in a safe environment with lots of coaching / feedback. The instructors are there to teach you car control, hitting apex's, corner exit, etc. in YOUR OWN CAR.

You can then take these skills to the track (HPDE) after that. Most the in-car instructors at HPDE events are there to make sure you are "safe on track"... they are not there to teach you car control. Most of the classroom instructors at HPDE are there to teach course safety, passing etiquette, track layout, corner stations, flags, etc.

So... if you do a AutoX school first and then you get into a "hairy" situation at a HPDE, you should have the skill-set and knowledge on how to bring the car back under control. Most people will say you won't have a hairy situation at a well conducted HPDE, but they do happen.

If you do a HPDE first and get into a "hairy" situation... will you have the skill-set in YOUR car to not put your car in the wall, avoid another car, etc?

I'm not an experienced road racer or anything, just a regular autocrosser with HPDE habits. I did my first HPDE after about 1 year of autocrossing.

Mordeth

Sure. I just registered for about 5 events in the last few days as they are all opening up now. The registration cost typically range from $500-$800 depending on the track and organization. Here is an exact breakdown of cost for one of them:

Registration for 2 day event: $550

Here the expenses I budget for:
Fuel: $100
Flush brake fluid: $50 (I do my own with Motul 600)
Change oil: $45

So that is $745. It sounds like you already have new tires, so all set there. If your pads are 50% or greater, then they will likely last the weekend, but you may need new front pads when done. Budget a few hundred for those. Most organizations will let you rent a helmet for $25-$50.

So I am thinking you are "all-in" for around $1000, and that includes new front pads. If that is above your budget, then the auto-cross would be what I would do.

By the way, at any good HPDE organization/club/event, they teach you FAR more than just track safety, flags, passing etiquette etc. There is a fair amount of classroom work (2-3 classes per day), including learning about an apex, driving the line, throttle and braking, cornering, using vision, hand placement, smoothness, weight transfer, grip/traction and various other car control techniques. In fact, the instructor will be in the car with you, using a communicator to give you guidance/feedback as it happens, IN YOUR OWN CAR. Additionally, many of these organizations provide videos in advance to teach you about car control. HOD has a very good series of videos and lectures for free once you register.

Scooter70

How about something like the MidOhio School? You get professional instruction in the classroom, paddock, and on track and you can use their cars so that you don't have to worry about yours.

http://www.midohio.com/mid-ohio-cour...ighperformance

jesup16

Not trying to start an argument, but I ran with NASA multiple weekends. Did we talk about some of these things... yeah. Did we watch video's... sure... I learned about most these techniques when I was 10 years old learning to drive go-karts. But that's no replacement for actually driving your car and practicing these topics in a secure, low risk environment.

In EVO school, the instructor is in your car, too... so not sure that's a difference maker. I can honestly say I learned 100x more about controlling my car at AutoX. I did learn other things at HPDE's like heel-toe technique, brake modulation, etc. But these are things that help you go faster... not keep you on course. Seeing as the OP has little experience in his car on track, I would presume safety would trump speed.

Maybe there a better local organizations, but I rank NASA as one of the best/safest and it's the reason I chose to run my HPDE's with them. NASA did 2 classes per day, too.

Of all the instructors, I only had 1 that really helped me get faster... which had nothing to do with car control, just how to take a better line in certain sections. So there is a lot of dependency on the organization and the instructor.

Also, not trying to bring the fear of death in here, but last I checked, no one was ever killed or crashed/totaled a car at an AutoX EVO school. There have been multiple instances in recent years of deaths and injury (driver and/or instructor) in HPDE. This has been mostly due to over-aggressive novice drivers and poor instructions.

Also, I don't want to start a AutoX vs HPDE discussion... each have their merits, but if costs is a concern, AutoX is much cheaper and EVO school is best way to maximize seat time at AutoX.

I don't think a track weekend has ever cost ME less than $1000 (Entry fee, fuel, brakes, lodging, food, etc... random replacement parts).

Also, HPDE can become a slippery slope. As you go faster, you'll need better brakes, better cooling, better safety, etc.

IMO, HPDE is more fun. You don't have to work the course. You get more seat time compared to a regular autoX event. You get to go over 70mph. But I probably wouldn't be married anymore if I did HPDE as often as I get to AutoX...

To each their own...

Mordeth

Agreed jesup. I definitely learned more at an autocross than an HPDE event. I was only pointing out that you do learn quite a bit at HPDE though...not just flags, safety etc. But, if you are simply wanting to learn more about your car and control, then AutoX/Evo wins. If you are looking for the lowest cost option, then AutoX/Evo also wins. However, if you are looking to (as Bill Dearborn once told me), "have more fun than anything that doesn't include removing your clothes", then HPDE wins (by a very large margin in my opinion). There is simply nothing comparable to driving your own car, at speed, on a race track. At least in my own opinion. It isn't even a comparison.

If I could do any of those options only once in my life, it would be a well conducted HPDE weekend event. Even a one day event, which many organizations offer.

jesup16

If I could do only 1... HPDE every time.

To the OP: I've done every single choice on your list. If you want to rank them as most FUN (cost being a limited factor), here is my $.02:

1. HPDE: Watch out... it's addicting!!

2. EVO School: I've been autocrossing for years, and I still enjoy every single pass on course.

3. Go Karts: I would have ranked this higher if I was still a spring chicken, but I've done a few karting events in the past years and my back hated me after that. YOU are the suspension in a go-kart.

4. Race Experience: I did the Richard Petty experience years ago at Daytona. Was it cool... Yeah. But was over pretty quickly and I didn't get to drive. The option to drive was VERY expensive. For me, all the fun happens in the driver's seat.

Nowanker

Auto-X school for the first go 'round! You'll learn the feel of your car at the limit with minimal risk. Must funner to spin the car at 40 in a wide open parking lot than it is at 80 in turn 6 at Laguna.
Some skills transfer, some don't. Auto-X encourages you to be more abrupt with your inputs... not so great at the track.

mikeCsix

Another option worth thinking about is attending a car control clinic usually put on by a local Audi, Porsche, or BMW club. These are inexpensive and will give you some experience operating your car at limits.

Then attend an hpde event. What I like about hpde is it teaches you to be smooth, smooth on the brakes, respect for the accelerator, and where to place your car on the track. At the novice level, you aren't going to stress the car that much and a good instructor will keep you at or below 5/10's for a nice safety margin.

You'll have to go through a tech inspection, heck you should be doing these on street cars anyway, especially brake fluid/flush. Street pads will work fine at the novice level but you should have more than 50% pad. Pads are cheap on the base model/ Z-51 equipped cars. You'll also need a good tire gauge and torque wrench, and plan to have a heck of a lot of fun and meet some nice like-minded people.

clearwaterms

do you have any links for this?

clearwaterms

How many passes do you typically get in a AutoX day? I remember from motorcycle track days you got 7 sessions and I was usually exhausted at the end of the day. In AutoX somebody once told me the thing they didn't like was that they left wanting more seat time.

C5 Hardtop

I vote for a modified #1.

Pick a track you like and a school that hosts there that allows you to use your car. That way you learn in class and then apply that theory in practice on the track.

Thats what I did with Proformance Racing School in Seattle (actually Kent, WA in late '90's). That will set you up with yer ducks in a row for getting seat-time with HPDE's at tracks, clubs and companies across the USA.

Also consider skid-control training. That would be in a modified car on rails, but you learn car-control skills in a controlled environment. The race track in Oregon (PIR) has a school that offers it.