Sawbladz

Looks like I am going to be tracking my 2013 Grand Sport more this summer coming since I sold my track/autoX Miata. I have tracked the Corvette once previously with the stock setup and was conscious not to extend the session too much to cause problems. I intend to do 5+ events this summer and at least that many autoX events plus drive the car on the street. For reference the car has 28,000 km.

Mods I intend to complete regardless of the rotor/pad/caliper setup I choose are stainless steel lines, DOT4 fluid and Quantum Motorsports spindle ducts. For tires I just bought a set of 275 RE71R's for the front and 325 RE11's for the rear to go on the factory wheels.

Options I am considering:

Option A

Pads Only.

Carbotech XP10 up front and Carbotech XP8 in the rear with factory rotors.

My understanding is this works ok on the street but with additional dust and squeak. I have doubts that these pads would do well for autoX since it would be so far outside their preferred operating temps.

Option B

Swappable Setup

Track - Carbotech XP10 up front and Carbotech XP8 in the rear with 2 piece rotors.

Street - All factory pads and rotors.

Option C

BBK Upgrade

Wilwood 6 piston calipers/2 piece rotors up front. Factory rotors in the rear. Wilwood BP10 pads for the street and a compatible race compound for the track (recommendations?). Not sure what pads to run in the rear. Would prefer a pad I can leave in full time.

The benefit here is a superior caliper, cheaper replacement pad cost and I could likely sell the factory calipers to recoup some of the purchase price. Even still, at the end of the day it's a lot more money.

Decisions like this are why I bought the Miata in the first place. Cheap consumables! Sucks when you move and your 2 car garage becomes a single...

Any input is appreciated as I continue to read and evaluate options. I don't have a set budget in mind but I want good value for the dollar. I'm also located in Canada and the exchange rate sucks right now so I have to keep that in mind.

Sawbladz

Since links might help make this clearer, these are what I'm looking at.

2 piece rotors
http://www.zip-corvette.com/05-13-c6...ke-rotors.html

Wilwood BBK
http://www.zip-corvette.com/05-13-c6...-calipers.html

Another concern with the BBK is that the car will no longer be legal in AS. Not the end of the world since my local club has basically no cars in that class but it's still something to consider. I think the 2 piece rotors would bump me out too even in stock sizes.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

How much seat time do you have?

You stated you have been out one time with the car so far, I would personally run it until you exhaust your pads and rotors you have and see what you don't like about it. For some the stock brakes are ok with good fluid, cooling, and pads. I might suggest our cooling ducts and Cobalt pads however .

That being said there are a number of short comings with the stock setup when pushed hard by an experienced driver and there are a number of choices on the market today. My top three (in no particular order) would be StopTech, AP/Essex, Brembo. I know some have good luck with Wilwood but for a good driver, there are much better options out there and their customer service and replacement part delivery times have been greatly lacking lately.

If you are swapping pads, if you have time/budget to do so I would keep rotors and pads matched together that way you do not have to worry about pad compatibility issues but there are a number of pads out there that you can swap with little to no cleaning of the rotor surface.

Conesmacker

Sorry not brake related advice...but I ran my 2011 GS in AS at several SCCA local autoX events last year with that tire setup. I was totally unhappy with it. The rear RE11s felt like they were greased compared to the front RE71Rs.

Contributing factors may have been the new purchased RE11s were date coded from 2014, so they were old on the shelf. And...the last Solo ride was an NA Solstice, so my throttle pedal foot is horribly miscalibrated. Your mileage may vary...

I'm planning to buy 18" x12 rear rims this year to run RivalS back there..but then I'm a autox only guy for now.

Are you running SCCA or other Solo rules? I'm not familar with the Canadian sanctioning bodies or their rules. Opt C will bump you out of AS and to either CAM or SP.

CAM is a popular class right now, but there's no limit to the checks you can write for speed parts - some folks take that as a positive.

Bill Dearborn

Here is another option if you want to consider it. Going with two piece rotors with the stock calipers should still meet the rules for the autocross class you want to compete in. However, I had extremely bad life expectancy out of the Coleman Rotors. Factory rotors would go about 5 days before cracking while the Coleman's made it 7 days. For the more than double the cost of rotor rings and replacement bolts they weren't cost effective. I followed those with this set of rotors and was very happy with life and cost. http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Bra...tte&option=Z06

I got 13 track days out of them before replacing them and they had not cracked. Replacement rings although about double the cost of factory rotors were just about equivalent in consumable cost to the factory rotors due to the almost 3 times durability. They might have gone another two or three days but I replaced them at the beginning of the season.

Afterwards if you decide the stock caliper is not for you then go with this Wilwood kit which will fit right over the rotors above. It will also go over any other stock or stock replacement rotor.
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Bra...tte&option=Z06

This will let you change in steps. The combo of the Wilwood Stock Replacement Calipers and the Wilwood Stock Replacement Rotors is not the standard Wilwood BBK offering. The standard offering gives you 14.25 inch rotors with a different offset than the stock 14 inch rotors. The thing I liked about the kit is I could throw some well abused stock rotors in the back of the truck as spares for the track. If something happened to a Wilwood Rotor I didn't need to have a spare one at the track and didn't have to worry about playing around with changing rings at the track.When I got home I could call a vendor and take my time getting the ring replaced. I did ruin one Wilwood rotor when I lost a front wheel at VIR and used the rotor to drive on. It actually held up pretty well but the edges of the vanes were pretty badly dinged and a lot of dirt got forced between the two sides of the ring.

Bill

Zip Corvettes

Bill,
I saw the pictures of your rotors you posted and something happened. You never responded to AFX or Coleman who wanted to test the rotor rings to see how they failed. That is not a normal thing that happens, taking your rotors out of the equation the only other failures have been caused by the user. Before we ever came out with these they were run on several race cars for a couple of years. Some of the those race cars went a full season on a set of rings. I have no doubt that are rotors are some of the best out there.

Sawbladz

I've owned the car since new so I'm familiar with the car. I've been doing HPDE's and autoX for about 7 years in different cars. Started with a Supra doing an event or two per year, then had an NB Miata set up for STR with Hawk track pads for HPDE's for the past two years. I got a fair bit or seat time in the Miata and improved a lot. It was broken last year so I took the Vette instead and really enjoyed the car.

The StopTech, AP/Essex, Brembo kits you mentioned look great but are really more than I want to spend. I'm not racing the car at this point and the price of that kit is what I paid for my Miata.

If I decide to go the pad swap route I will likely keep the factory set together for the street setup.

Sawbladz

I actually read your post regarding your dislike of the RE11's before I purchased mine. I got an exceptional deal through costco with a rebate and paid 1560 after tax installed for the set. I thought it was an amazing deal since we usually get dinged hard for shipping, customs, taxes, etc crossing the border. I'm mounting the rears (corded now) and driving the Florida on vacation first week of April. Will mount the RE71R's on the front when I get back. Plan to swap the RE11's for the 305 RE71R if I don't like the feel. They were out of stock when I ordered.

Our local sanctioning body is the CASC-OR and it follows SCCA rules regarding classification. I currently autoX more than I do lapping days but I've been doing more lapping every year.

Sawbladz

I appreciate the tip on the piecemeal approach to the upgrade. Would definitely leave options open if I just did the rotors now and the calipers later. This car may end up only being used for street and HPDE since our local autoX is very tight and best suited for Miata's. May end up buying an NC just for autoX.

TKOGTO

"Wilwood 6 piston calipers/2 piece rotors up front. Factory rotors in the rear. Wilwood BP10 pads for the street and a compatible race compound for the track (recommendations?). Not sure what pads to run in the rear. Would prefer a pad I can leave in full time."

Had same consideration a while back. Started with W6As in the front with B pads for the track and Hawk HP+s in the rear with OEM calipers. Swapped the fronts to BP10s for the street and kept the HP+s in the back because had no interest in constantly swapping pads out of the OEM calipers. This never worked for me. I did not like imbalance on the track and the HP+s squealed on the street. I broke down and got the Wilwood FNSLs for the rear and now all's good. B pads all around on the track (sometimes H pads) and BP20s in front on the street. I leave the B's in the rear on the street (lazy) and have no issues as a result.

Like everyone else, the only regret I have is not doing it sooner.

Bill Dearborn

Not sure when they saw my pictures. The first time I posted the pictures was almost 5 years ago https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1580897365. I never received a PM asking me to send the rotors back for inspection. The rotors were thrown in the trash bin a long time ago.

They were my second set of AFX/Coleman Rotors. The first ones cracked after 7 days and I replaced them in Sept 2011. One of the rings of the second set split apart like the pictures showed after 5 track days in May of 2012. Needless to say I was not a happy camper spending that kind of money on the rotors and not seeing any significant increase in durability over stock rotors. They pretty much soured me on two piece rotors. It took me a year and 3 more sets of stock rotors before I was even willing to try the Wilwoods.

I do have to say the rear Colemans wore well once I bent the backing plate out of the way. I actually got over 20 track days on those rotors.
The slots disappeared and I replaced them because they dropped below minimum thickness. However, the rear Wilwoods that were part of the Wilwood rear BBK that replaced calipers and rotors in June 2013 were wearing just as well.

When people comment they are thinking about purchasing the Coleman's I feel that I should tell people the problems I had with the HD AFX/Coleman rotors. Everybody was raving about them but I didn't get the result they did when I took them to the track. Pure and simple I got a totally different result from the Wilwoods.

Bill

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Understood, but how much does it cost to fix when the brakes fail and the car goes into the tire wall?



Now I am saying that with a bit of an exaggeration to it, but not much. It always amazes me people will drop $30-40k on an engine but say $4k for brakes and that is just INSANE. Not only will a good brake system drop lap times, but it is one good safety measure to have on the car as well. Sure there are kits out there that are WAY to much and something that I would never begin to suggest to someone doing this as a weekend hobby....like the calipers on the ALMS car.







That little Alcon piece is $4475 EACH caliper before you even start with pads, rotors, hats......and yes that would be nuts for a weekend guy to get for an upgrade.


Now you also have to think about consumables as well, how long are rotors going to last? Pads? Caliper rebuilds.


So that being said...a entry level front StopTech 6 piston kit is under $3k and would work fine with the ABS, stock rear brakes, and give you a more reliable setup. Unless the looks would bother you, keeping the stock rears would be fine, and I don't see much point to doing the rear brakes for weekend outings.

Lawdogg

I run Nasa time trial sessions which are usually 15 minutes. We usually do 5 sessions per day. I run on slicks and my car is highly modded with aero. I run Coleman 2 piece front rotors with factory calipers and Carbotech XP20 pads. Rears are stock calipers with XP12 pads and one piece stoptech rotors. Rear pads and rotors last forever. Front rotors last about 6 track days plus 4000 street miles. Pads about 1/2 that. I live with the elevated dust and noise and street drive this setup.

Because my track session are only 15 minutes, I don't run any cooling ducts. I run Wilwood XP600 brake fluid and braided steel brake lines. In 10 summers and 60+ track days, never overheated the brakes and I'm still on the original calipers with no maintenance (60,000 miles on the car). Just one guy's experience.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Check your in box

speedwaywhite

Same experience for me as well, did A, then B and now C. Just installed AP factory BBK on front of my GS. Been through 3 sets RE 11, good tire, would be on fourth set now but hard to come by. OE front calipers aren't up to the task of track days, leaking bleeders, lost pad pins etc.
If your budget allows, go for C first and save a lot of money and aggravation.

JRitt@essex

To the OP. You need to decide what your pain threshold is for tinkering with your brakes over the next couple of years. Between track sessions, do you want to be under your car wrenching, bleeding, and cursing, or would you rather be enjoying a cool water and talking with your buddies? You can 'get away' with a modest brake upgrade, but the OEM C6 GS brake equipment is never going to offer you the performance you've always imagined in your head. The calipers are not good, and the discs are worse. You will be continuously throwing spares at the car, bleeding brakes, lack consistency, face potential fade, etc. In the end, you will burn up the OEM equipment, and it will be scrap iron when you go to sell your car.

I've helped many hundreds of customers go down this path over the past 10 or so years since the C6Z06 debuted with the brake setup on your GS. Of those who have bought one of our Essex/AP Racing brake kits, I literally cannot name a single one who has ever come back and told me (or posted on this forum) that they regret their decision. I also can't point to one who thought our brake kit wasn't worth every dime they paid for it. In most cases, our customers tell us that our brake kit is the favorite mod they've ever installed on their track car. You can see customer feedback on our blog page. You'll see others chime in here that have gone down that path. Most of them tell me they just wish they had skipped all the putzing around and went straight to our complete kit at the beginning of their journey.

Our kits are a substantial investment, but they are also a great value. Some people find the initial price tag daunting, but those people are typically a bit shortsighted in their approach. We have proven time and again that if you plan to track your car for the next few years, our brake kits pay for themselves in consumable savings alone. We designed our Competition Kits with low long-term running costs as one of the key goals. Disc spares are affordable, and since the discs last so long, they aren't needed very often. Pads are the most common shapes, available from every manufacturer in all compounds. Because of their quality and durability, our kits regularly change hands on the used market for 60-70% of their original purchase price. You pull them off, get a couple grand back, and install your fresh OEM parts that have been sitting on the shelf in your garage. You don't have to go out and buy brand new OEM parts to give away. Best of all, you get to enjoy all of our kit's benefits in the interim.

We have a wide range of kits to suit different budgets and needs, and we'd be happy to guide you towards the proper kit for your situation if you'd like our assistance. You can see all options for your car here on our site:

https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl.../Grand%20Sport

Also note that we just finished running a holiday special on the Factory Big Brake Kits. They were $1999, rather than the regular $3699. I can probably twist an arm or two to honor that price if you're interested. You'd be far better off with that setup on the front vs. the OEM equipment...which brings me to another point:

These cars are brutal on front brakes, but not so hard on the rears. Invest in the best front brake kit you can afford, and you will be a happy camper during your years of owning and tracking the car!

Whis9

good info

JRitt@essex

Below are a few vids to watch and consider. Let us know if you'd like some assistance. We'll be here!

Additional videos on these topics and others can be found on the Essex YouTube Channel.

Planning for Future Brake Needs


Brake Upgrade Guide


Essex Competition Kits Part 1


Essex Competition Kits Part 2

JEPopp

I could not agree more. When pushed hard on stock Grand Sport/Z06 calipers, I spent too much time bleeding brakes and changing pads (which is a PITA on stock calipers), not to mention having a pad locating pin come out while under hard braking going into Turn 5 at Road America.

0Todd TCE

Bill brings up a good point with regard to doing some of this in "stages" (being the one who helped him do all of it) And while that makes sense on the surface.... with today's pricing structure it's really not a good value.

At this point money is better spend on simply purchasing complete kits- regardless of the vendor. The cost of a Caliper Kit up front and later adding a Rotor Kit will exceed the complete cost buy quite a bit. With just about any 14" 2pc combo running $800-1000 that's hundreds more than the cost of full kit up front.

The old "sum of the parts is greater than the whole" is true here as much as anywhere.