Frankie the Fink

I won't confirm or deny. I've worked hard, saved every dime and had some fortunate opportunities. Didn't win a lottery or inherit squat.

Let's just say I don't have so much that I'm not grateful for everything I've gotten, but enough so I don't have to be envious of anyone or want for a thing.

However, I would never spend several hundred thousand dollars on a car let alone millions, I don't care what the pedigree.

My cars right now could go to zero value and not affect my lifestyle. You start getting into the megabuck rides and that's no longer true....

GTOguy

I think it boils down to being happy in your lifestyle. It has nothing to do with the 'cash value' of an item. For me, as I get older, it seems that the more I am able to afford, the less I actually need. Friends, family, time off to enjoy, that's what's important. I see a lot of unhappy guys in very expensive cars. I'd rather be grinning in one of my old relics, or helping a friend with theirs. I bought my old GTO's when they had zero value. But I liked them. They were fast. They were stylish. They were loud. They were seen as un- PC gas hogs 35 years ago. I didn't care. Same today....I drive what I drive because I want to, not because of any perceived 'worth' or return on investment. As for Frankie, to me it looks like he's made solid life-choices, made use out of opportunities, and has kept his eyes and ears open. He's in a place where he can make any choice he wants to. And he's living the dream as we speak. Sounds like a well-played hand to me!

tuxnharley

It depends on what perspective you have on this issue. From the perspective of us Corvette peons, most of what is being said is absolutely correct and good advice applicable to us. However, from the perspective of the ultra affluent who collect cars - The Du Ponts, Ralph Lauren, etc, a very different perspective and set of "rules" apply.

Buy low sell high - or not at all -still applies. I know of one guy who bought a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO for $13 million when the market was down; its worth at least $30M today and maybe as much as $50M.

The exclusivity factor is what counts. I love the quote from the video clip I posted earlier in this thread:

"They aren't making anymore of these cars. There are new Billionaires being created every year"

Corvettes aren't truly exclusive, unless you have an original Grand Sport.

The toys the big boys play with are, and will always remain so. Heck, those guys even know how to make money in a down market!

biggd

I'm looking to buy another and it's never good to buy at the top of the market. So I guess I'm hoping for a down turn in prices just like the market. I know the rare ones will always bring top dollar but this rising Corvette market floats all boats.

GTOguy

Well stated, Tux. Apples and oranges, here. But sometimes the two meet in the middle. A friend of mine let Jay Leno drive his beat-to-death Model T hack that we pulled out of a field in Tulare in 2006 at the Monerey Historics a couple of years back...and Jay got a huge kick out of it....telling a Delage owner (million dollar car) to 'get that foreign piece of crap out of my way" while the headliner of the hack was flapping in his face. Some of the ultra rich do go slumming from time to time, but yes, it is a totally different world than what most of us live in.

tuxnharley

Great story, GTOguy!

I love Jay Leno - still a down to earth real car guy in spite of all his wealth and success.

Easy Rhino

Pretty much it, except for the super-rich crowd trading in >$1M cars, and only as a hobby at that. All I hope is that my '65 pretty much breaks even at the end of it all, or thereabouts.

As far as a Camry goes, I've never owned one, but it's a good example of a car as an appliance, saves money, and is entirely forgettable.

I AM watching for that next dip opportunity to buy at a discount.

GTOguy

Tux, he's a real gearhead. Comes to the Bakersfield brass car swap meet and can be seen digging around in the filthy old boxes full of parts, sometimes on the ground....looking for that perfect valve stem cover or whatever. Down to earth and nice guy, too. Likes to know how and why things work, like most of us.

SBR

I understand what you are saying but if a person has a great solid axle fuelie, big brake or Airbox car, they should be just fine. Look at how well the 58 collection did at the Mecum Indy auction. You even state that auction houses are running out of good cars. Bottom line is if you have a great car, you will be fine.

mrg

Going outside the box a bit. Apple's to oranges age notwithstanding (60+) it just seems to me most here are comfortable with their financials at this stage of the game.

The real investment that matters is health. Keep mind and body active and hopefully, that will keep the life juices a flowing for some time to come. Read, write, walk, jig, golf......drive Corvette.......all good! Might help buy some extra 'time'. ..

No guarantees in life, of course. .. Roll the dice........and hope it don't come up snake eyes!

Frankie the Fink

At my level in the hobby one of the more appealing aspects is the range of Corvette friends I have. I have pals that have had their cars for 50+ years and are still managing to drive and maintain them on just their social security checks and other friends with 8-digit net worth that get just as greasy on their Corvettes as I do.

When we get together its like I used to do with my high school gearhead pals. I'm not remotely interested in the megabuck vettes with racing provenance or celebrity status nor weenie-extending pasta rockets. I think the folks in that rarefied atmosphere are not the type I'd care to be around much.

When somebody tells me that, "...a million dollars is the entry point for serious collector cars".... I nod politely and move on.

And I still get an occasional crazy money offer for my '61....I don't think C1s have fallen off the map by a long shot..

Loren Smith

Yes and no, I could see a car with a fresh restoration depreciate as the restoration ages. Aging restoration is another factor you need to throw in that makes our cars even worse investments, a condition 1- car will be a condition 2- car in a few years.

HudsonHornet

Final sales of $44,335,001 at the three-day sale, increase of $10 million over last year.

John McGraw

Absolutely! I take a very long-term view to my retirement portfolio. I did not sell anything back in 08, but just kept buying all I could afford. The Dow has doubled since 08. Sure, I have lost a whopping 1.58% year to date, and I am not sure how I will ever survive! Wait, I made 12% last year and almost 16% the year before.

You got to take the bad along with the good. As soon as someone shows me a better track record than the market, I will move all my money, but until then, I will just have to limp along with meager yield that I am getting from the market!

I had a bunch of co-workers that dumped all of their stocks at the bottom in 2008 and moved completely into money markets to protect what was left. Of course, the market rebounded and they did not get back into the market until late 2012. They lost a ton of money when they sold, never got it back on the upside, and then sat out most of the bull market for the last several years. At least a couple of them did the same thing on this dip! At this rate, they will be lucky to have any money left to retire with!

Everything I own has been paid for for a long time, so there is no better place for my money to make money than in the stock Market.
I am only a few years from retirement, and I will stay maxed out on my contributions until then.



Regards, John McGraw

Frankie the Fink

John was lucky; 95% aren't. Timing the market is a huge risk. I pulled out early during the crash he mentioned; went completely to cash and avoided 90% of the drop but was a tad slow on getting back in on the rise. I did very well despite that....but was also lucky.

By the time you identify a true crash from a normal market correction the damage has been done and its exactly the wrong time to pull out.

And, most may not want to hear this, at the age most of us are at there isn't a lot of time left to recoup from mistakes....leave that high risk stuff to the kids...

Once I retired and became a consultant, new vistas opened up as far as retirement; I was able to dump some serious money into my own profit-sharing plan and I maxed my contributions for a decade....

phil2302

Frankie, clearly you and John are guys that figured it out a long time ago.
I am a fed retiree and from day one took advantage of a 401K variant they began offering in 1985 called TSP (Thrift Savings Plan).
I put in the max from day one and always invested in the funds with the highest reward potential (stocks).
I agree that market timing is tough and in almost all cases doesnt work because you have to be right twice. You need to be right when selling and the 2nd even harder choice is when to re-invest. Of course there is also the luck factor. In 2008, after losing approx 15% of my account value I moved everything out to a fund that is similar to a money market called the G fund. Some time later, after the Dow and S&P lost approx 40% I bought back into the stock funds and never looked back. It was the luckiest thing I ever did in my whole life.
For me it all comes down to the risk / reward ratio. No risk investments have little reward.
Having said that I must admit it took alot of patience to sit still and not make any defensive moves this week.
Over my career years I felt bad for people I worked with who made the oh so common mistake of selling after a market rout. The same mistake was often compounded with some of them re-entering the market only after it had risen significantly again. I saw the same mistakes made over and over again. Some folks just dont have the stomach and the long view it takes to be a reasonably successful investor in equities.
I have also dabbled with individual stocks over the years with some modest success (and some nightmares ) but never achieved the same level of success that patient, long term investing in major stock indices provided.
Back on topic, as much as I have enjoyed owning Corvettes and motorcycles I never expected to make a profit from them when buying or selling.

Frankie the Fink

Wife and I are both retired Feds with the CSRS pension but she also has the TSP. The TSP is one of the most well run funds, ever, by anyone. Its managed similarly to how Harvard and other big institutions deal with their investments. There are funds out there that mimic the TSP for non-Feds....that's how good they are.

I was a Senior Exec at the SEC for a while and it convinced me even more solidly that market timing is 100% luck. Now, with 'dark pool' trading, computer programs doing massive buying/selling to make just pennies on massive trading, and other things I won't mention you have 'flash crashes' and failed 'circuit breakers'. And many don't understand this simple facet of the market: "time reduces risk".

Anyway, I don't get people that pay $50K for a vintage Corvette, drive it for 15 years, then complain when they can't get $75K for it. While that decade-old SUV in the driveway, they paid $50K for when new, is now worth $2,500.

Silliness on a massive scale.

dplotkin

Here's another way to look at it, there are only two good reasons to leave the market, 1). if you need the cash to live on so that market fluctuations affect lifestyle, or 2). you believe the world is coming to an abrupt end, in which case I would advise that you stay in the market since the money will be useless anyway.

Dan

Easy Rhino

This has turned into an interesting thread after all.

I, too, have been saving and investing for decades, and agree by and large with most of what has been said here. However, I also keep an eye out for the minority opinion to avoid suffering from a recency defect.

This is due, in part, to my Grandfather, who taught me the most about the philosophy of investing. Bogle, Bernstein, and others taught me the technical parts. While I am no day trader, speculator, or fringe investment buyer (niobium mining futures), or band wagon buyer (tulip bulbs, anyone?), there is a place for not just sitting on the sidelines 100% of the time.

So I take a major equities approach with lesser allocations into opportunities to make a return and get back out. As has often been said "sell euphoria and buy panic". For example, putting a lump wad into index funds Tuesday midnight and getting out Thursday at midnight (yes, TSP), making about 6% in two days - buying the dip. So, there are times to step out of the box, even though I am a conservative investor overall.

FWIW, I avoided the 2008 downturn entirely by getting out within 5% of the top, and got back in within 5% of the bottom. A mistake that many make (you can't play with the big boys and program traders) is trying to hit the exact bottoms and tops - it will kick you in the teeth most every time.

I also avoided the high-tech (NASDAQ) collapse of 2002, as well as several prior others market downturns (but not the flash crash of black Monday 1987). If you can take your "winnings", get out, and get back in close to the bottom, you can significantly enhance your returns.

I have to, I'm a humble retired prior enlisted Naval officer and current fed (double-dipper) that never had a big salary as compared to many in my family, but don't intend to eat cat food in my old age.

YMMV

65hihp

Great to be a part of such a group of brilliant and savvy investors. With a tiny bit of luck if I hang here on the CF I will not only learn what makes my old corvettes tick, but also learn how to invest my remaining money without losing my shirt in the process. My 401K track record is an embarrassment compared to everyone else here.