I can't figure this out!
11-23-2015, 06:17 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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I can't figure this out!
I'm trying to help a friend with a '65 get his car to start correctly. At first his problem was that the car would act dead when he hit the key, but not all the time. Every time he changed something, he thought it was finally fixed, but it kept happening.
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
Last edited by KC John; 11-24-2015 at 12:15 AM.
11-23-2015, 06:34 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Jump with a known good battery and see what happens...
I'm trying to help a friend with a '65 get his car to start correctly. At first his problem was that the car would act dead when he hit the key, but not all the time. Every time he changed something, he thought it was finally fixed, but it kept happening.
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
11-23-2015, 06:36 PM
#3
Team Owner
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Location: Washington Michigan
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11-23-2015, 06:59 PM
#4
I'm trying to help a friend with a '65 get his car to start correctly. At first his problem was that the car would act dead when he hit the key, but not all the time. Every time he changed something, he thought it was finally fixed, but it kept happening.
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
I told him I thought it was the ignition switch, so I gave him a new one I had for my car. I knew it might not plug in, but I told him to just let it hang under the dash and jump the wires to see if that helped his problem.
After replacing the battery cables, then the starter, then the battery before trying the ignition switch, it seems that the switch worked, it now at least tries to turn over when you turn the key.
He now has another problem. When he turns the key the motor barely turns over. I asked if the car runs well when it does start and he told me it runs fine, so I guess the timing is fine.
I had him try to start the car with a multimeter hooked up and it pulled the battery down to around 10 volts. The battery tested out at 12 volts. I also hooked a battery cable to the neg terminal and the engine to make sure the ground was good.
It turns over slowly (every time now that it has a new ign. switch) and the starter motor doesn't sound right. Also it doesn't torque as hard as I expected when I had it in my hands still hooked up and asked him to hit the key.
The rebuilt starter is now suspect, but he is going to bring it to a shop that rebuilds starters.
Is there something I'm missing?
11-24-2015, 12:15 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
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Every thing is new and the bendix engages properly, it doesn't bind at all. The only symptom is the engine turns over like it's full of molasses.
If the battery was bad wouldn't it eventually just click and not try to turn the engine.
If the battery was bad wouldn't it eventually just click and not try to turn the engine.
11-24-2015, 12:37 AM
#6
Team Owner
Whats the CC AMPS of the battery and is the starter Stock or a Mini hi torque one...???
11-24-2015, 09:38 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
You said the battery tested at 12V. It should be 12.6
It should read > 13.5V with the car running if the alternator is good.
It should pull down to 9.6v when cranking the starter..
Last edited by phil2302; 11-24-2015 at 09:39 AM.
11-24-2015, 10:46 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
I'm also thinking the Battery is at fault. Try jumping the car with a known good Battery to see if it starts easily. A Battery should be above 13 Volts to be strong. Al W. 
11-24-2015, 10:59 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
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I was using an old analog meter, so it could have been 12.6. He told me he read 13.9 when it was running so it seems the battery and alternator is fine.
11-25-2015, 08:40 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '05, '09, '15
I would check for a voltage drop on both the positive and negative sides of the starter. Use your volt meter. Put the positive meter lead on the positive post of the battery. On the post not the cable end. Put the negative lead on the starter solenoid where the battery cable attaches. Put it on the terminal, not the cable lead. Watch the meter and look for a voltage reading while your friend tries to crank the engine. You should see less than ~.2 volts. Repeat the test on the negitive post of the battery and the starter case or mount bolt. Reverse the meter leads so the negative meter lead is on the battery post. Again you should see less than ~.2 volts. If either test shows more than the ~.2 volts you are dropping voltage through that side.
If you have no meter reading at all while performing the tests check your connections. You may not have a good meter connection.
Tom
If you have no meter reading at all while performing the tests check your connections. You may not have a good meter connection.
Tom
Last edited by Sky65; 11-25-2015 at 08:47 PM.
11-26-2015, 03:26 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
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Turns out the starter was bad, he replaced it and all is well. I guess he happened to have two problems at the same time. First the ign switch was bad and then the starter he replaced was fine (I tested it before he changed it out) but he replaced it anyway before trying the switch. The dealer replaced the starter so other than spending a bunch of money he didn't have to spend, it's now fixed. Thanks for all the help.
11-26-2015, 08:58 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Rebuilt starters
Spend the extra money and buy a NEW starter. Rebuilt is a worn out part that has had only wear items replaced to Make it work. Still a weak worn out part. Another tip. If your battery is a Napa take it back and buy anything else. Napa batteries are no good . I deal with these issues everyday. You may not agree but this is my opinion and I am sticking with it. Dave
Turns out the starter was bad, he replaced it and all is well. I guess he happened to have two problems at the same time. First the ign switch was bad and then the starter he replaced was fine (I tested it before he changed it out) but he replaced it anyway before trying the switch. The dealer replaced the starter so other than spending a bunch of money he didn't have to spend, it's now fixed. Thanks for all the help.
Last edited by 65specialk; 11-26-2015 at 09:00 AM.
11-26-2015, 07:43 PM
#15
Race Director
I have had BOTH new alternators and new starters that were brought in by my customers fail. SO....it can happen.
DUB
07-09-2016, 03:12 PM
#16
Nothing 'weak' or 'worn out' if it is rebuilt correctly. I guess everybody needs to buy a new engine also. Maybe in your area no one can rebuild a part correctly. I guess I am lucky and can have the shop I use who rebuilds my stuff and NEVER have a problem.
I have had BOTH new alternators and new starters that were brought in by my customers fail. SO....it can happen.
DUB
I have had BOTH new alternators and new starters that were brought in by my customers fail. SO....it can happen.
DUB
DUB is 100% correct in what he said but in my case, I know what went into it and it was done right. Too many failures with Chinese starters, solenoids, parts period. Then we are stuck going up and down, in and out.
07-09-2016, 03:40 PM
#17
Safety Car
"Back in the day" I worked with a fortune 50 Co. One of our Industrial Engineers related to me that during his summers while in school he worked in a Starter/Alternator/Generator rebuild company doing time studies. The process was to bring all the piles of alternators into a room and disassemble them. Similar parts were placed in piles together. Each pile of similar parts were then run through a tumbler to remove rust, grease, and whatever. Once the piles were cleaned. They moved to an assembly area and these parts were reassembled and painted. Only obviously broken pieces were discarded. They had a high return rate. They sold their product to Auto Supply Houses as rebuilt units.
I never buy a rebuilt anything. My failure rate is 0% just as xkeots!
I never buy a rebuilt anything. My failure rate is 0% just as xkeots!