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1962 was still uncomfortably warm in stop and go traffic or red lights that took 2-3 cycles to get through due to traffic with my 383 stroker motor and 700R4 overdrive automatic. It would wander up to 210-215*. Once it got moving it would drop back to 185* as long as you kept moving. This is after changing everything as outlined in my previous posts. I mean everything.
I would like to do some of the local cruises and handle the Beach Blvd, Huntington Beach traffic with it next summer so I decided to compliment my new Dewitts restoration radiator and stock looking fan clutch/fan combo with a 16" Derale puller fan from the Fan Man in Stanton (way cheaper than Summit or Jegs). The goal was to install it so it was undetectable by the casual observer. I used Derale's relay kit which includes a temperature sender that turns the fan on at 190* and off at 175*. I just finished installing it today.
The result? Today it was 78* in Orange at my shop. I drove it around, bought some gas, did a little spirited driving, then pulled in the parking lot, and left it in drive with the e-brake on. Within a few minutes it crept up from 185 to 190 and 195 seemed to be headed for the usual 210-215 when stopped in drive for an extended period. Suddenly the fan kicked on, and within a few minutes the temp dropped back to 179* and held. It has a 180* thermostat. I let it idle in drive for 10 more minutes and the gauge held at 179*. I jumped back in it, did a peelie in the parking lot, made a u-turn and pulled it inside. I opened the hood and the underhood temperature was a lot cooler than normal. I am a happy camper once again.
The stock generator actually did pretty well, but I'm going to replace it with one of those Powermaster 90 amp alternators that looks like a 1960's GM generator. They are a direct bolt in.
Here's the fan being installed.
Here's the completed installation after my test. Tough to tell it's even there. When running, the fan is barely heard in the car. As fast as it cooled down I have no doubt that hotter days will not hamper the performance of the fan.
Had the exact same problem last yea & year beforer, except while the electric fan controlled my idle temps, out on the highway it would edge up to 210-215. The longer I drove at 65 mph, the hotter it would get.
Finally, I removed the electric fan and installed a HD fan clutch and seven blade fan and closed off all my Dewitt radiator openings. On the hottest days (100+), never gets over 185 deg.
I also had a heating problen in my 62. Orig 324/340. Installed a Dewitts and Spal fan setup. Bought from a person on this site for $300. Added a Powermaster Alternator repainted it low gloss black all parts trying to keep original look, rivited on a Delco tag. Same sucess with the heating, but also added Classic Auto air. All works great. Tok out west this summer and were were in Carlsbad Caverns temp 98 car ran cool at 215. In traffic iddleing along stays at 190. I have installed alot of A/C units in street rods over the years and puller fans are always my choice.
Wow, that setup really is invisible unless you're looking for it.
Originally Posted by Randy G.
1962 was still uncomfortably warm in stop and go traffic or red lights that took 2-3 cycles to get through due to traffic with my 383 stroker motor and 700R4 overdrive automatic. It would wander up to 210-215*. Once it got moving it would drop back to 185* as long as you kept moving. This is after changing everything as outlined in my previous posts. I mean everything.
I would like to do some of the local cruises and handle the Beach Blvd, Huntington Beach traffic with it next summer so I decided to compliment my new Dewitts restoration radiator and stock looking fan clutch/fan combo with a 16" Derale puller fan from the Fan Man in Stanton (way cheaper than Summit or Jegs). The goal was to install it so it was undetectable by the casual observer. I used Derale's relay kit which includes a temperature sender that turns the fan on at 190* and off at 175*. I just finished installing it today.
The result? Today it was 78* in Orange at my shop. I drove it around, bought some gas, did a little spirited driving, then pulled in the parking lot, and left it in drive with the e-brake on. Within a few minutes it crept up from 185 to 190 and 195 seemed to be headed for the usual 210-215 when stopped in drive for an extended period. Suddenly the fan kicked on, and within a few minutes the temp dropped back to 179* and held. It has a 180* thermostat. I let it idle in drive for 10 more minutes and the gauge held at 179*. I jumped back in it, did a peelie in the parking lot, made a u-turn and pulled it inside. I opened the hood and the underhood temperature was a lot cooler than normal. I am a happy camper once again.
The stock generator actually did pretty well, but I'm going to replace it with one of those Powermaster 90 amp alternators that looks like a 1960's GM generator. They are a direct bolt in.
Here's the fan being installed.
Here's the completed installation after my test. Tough to tell it's even there. When running, the fan is barely heard in the car. As fast as it cooled down I have no doubt that hotter days will not hamper the performance of the fan.
Very slick how it fastens with brackets rather than the usual zip -tie-thru-the-core. Looks factory, and you have to look for it to see it. I like it!
Yea, I didn't want to do the zip tie route. Just thinking about the damage to the radiator, shroud, hood and wallet should the electric fan come loose and get into the regular fan was reason enough for me to never consider it.
Mike T. I bought some mild steel 1/8" thick steel straps (I think they are 5/8" or 3/4" wide?) from the local Ace Hardware store and formed and cut them to fit in behind the fan shroud side of the radiator support along side each end of the radiator so the face of the straps missed the entire radiator by about 3/16" all the way across. It was pretty time consuming. I drilled and countersunk the strap mounting holes in the radiator support so I could use countersunk 1/4'-20 x 1/2 bolts and nylocks because I wanted the shroud to still sit flush on the radiator support when all was said and done. On the radiator side of the straps I also drilled them for 1/4" countersunk bolts so the face of the four bolts that hold the fan assembly to the straps wouldn't touch the radiator. Then I painted them with Krylon Industrial Semi Flat black paint before installing them.
I used the Hayden #2747 heavy duty fan clutch with a Derale 6 blade fan on the front of the water pump. There is just under 1/2" clearance between the closest point on the front of the fan clutch and the electric fan (whew!) Might as well be a mile!
Flyingb you stole my thunder...or vis-versa. Today I ordered the Powermaster alternator like yours and I already had a Delco tag I picked up for the original generator a couple of months ago from a guy on ebay. I decided it may be worth a try to drill the case and put it on the Powermaster case. Obvioulsy you beat me to it! Good job. You should sneak a fan and fan clutch on yours. Also you said "Tok out west this summer and were were in Carlsbad Caverns temp 98 car ran cool at 215." Was it actually running that warm?
That is almost exactly how i mounted the SPAL fan on my 327 powered '37 Ford pickup.
Great minds think alike, i guess.
As a side note, I used the SPAL PWM fan speed controller that is programmable and runs the fan vari-speed as needed, so it doesn't just blast full on at certain temp.
Doug
Originally Posted by Randy G.
. I bought some mild steel 1/8" thick steep straps (I think they are 5/8" or 3/4" wide?) from the local Ace Hardware store and formed and cut them to fit in behind the fan shroud side of the radiator support along side each end of the radiator so the face of the straps missed the entire radiator by about 3/16" all the way across. It was pretty time consuming. I drilled and countersunk the strap mounting holes in the radiator support so I could use countersunk 1/4'-20 x 1/2 bolts and nylocks because I wanted the shroud to still sit flush on the radiator support when all was said and done. On the radiator side of the straps I also drilled them for 1/4" countersunk bolts so the face of the four bolts that hold the fan assembly to the straps wouldn't touch the radiator. Then I painted them with Krylon Industrial Semi Flat black paint before installing them.
Had the exact same problem last yea & year beforer, except while the electric fan controlled my idle temps, out on the highway it would edge up to 210-215. The longer I drove at 65 mph, the hotter it would get.
Finally, I removed the electric fan and installed a HD fan clutch and seven blade fan and closed off all my Dewitt radiator openings. On the hottest days (100+), never gets over 185 deg.
I used a heavy duty Hayden fan clutch (#2799) with a seven blade fan in my air conditioned 65 and it works very well.
I used a heavy duty Hayden fan clutch (#2799) with a seven blade fan in my air conditioned 65 and it works very well.
Part of the problem with C1's is how far the radiator is from the stock fan because of the torsion bar that's in the way, how poorly the stock 17" fan fits around the fan opening in the shroud leaving tremendous gaps of over one inch or more in some (but not all) areas, plus the factory shroud is a major air leaker everywhere even after you spend a bunch of time on them like Frankie did.
Seems like a few have no problems, but most I know around here with all types of older cars do. We were discussing this yesterday, how 40 years ago we didn't have the traffic and gridlock to deal with here in SoCal so your car never sat long enough to overheat unlike today. Just going the 10 miles to Huntington Beach from my house can take an hour or more. If you don't have traffic issues it's likely you would be part of the group proclaiming that your car simply doesn't overheat, because mine wouldn't either if that were the case. A friend of mine bought a '51 Merc from a guy in Prescott who swears the car never overheats. Prescott is a small town with not much stop and go traffic. The seller is an honest guy. After a few bouts with So Cal traffic and the temp gauge in the Merc flirting with 215* my friend installed a Derale 16" pusher fan (I like puller) and now he's running 180* to 185* with the flathead while in line to get in car shows like Cruising for a Cure in Costa Mesa, where they typically have long lines and get over 3,000 cars. That's why I wanted mine to pass the "10 minute-in drive-sitting still" test.
[I also had a heating problen in my 62. Orig 324/340. Installed a Dewitts and Spal fan setup. Bought from a person on this site for $300. Added a Powermaster Alternator repainted it low gloss black all parts trying to keep original look, rivited on a Delco tag. Same sucess with the heating, but also added Classic Auto air. All works great. Tok out west this summer and were were in Carlsbad Caverns temp 98 car ran cool at 215. In traffic iddleing along stays at 190. I have installed alot of A/C units in street rods over the years and puller fans are always my choice.
Not to get off topic but that is a great job of upgrading and keeping the original and period correct look. Very stealth.
Nice install and Happy for you that you now can stay at 180 and relax.
Based on following this whole thread it sounds like the spring in the fan clutch was never fully engaging the factory fan. When fully engaged the fan will pull more cooling air than the electric. I suspect you have diagnosed it with the distance from the radiator to the fan clutch. Most are about 2 inches away from the radiator heat. They usually engage at a temp at the clutch of 180, in most cars the radiator would be 200-210 when the clutch kicks in. In your car I bet the fan clutch is not coming close to seeing 180 based on the air leaks and distance involved. Too bad we can't get an electric engagement set up for the fan clutch like they run in large Diesel Trucks. That would allow us to engage the fan when needed. Maybe one of the fan clutch companies can supply a spring that engages the clutch at 165, might solve the issue. Glad yours is finally cool, enjoy.
Randy, very,, very good point on the traffic conditions of today vs 'Route 66' days. Night and day in most urban areas. Thanks for the details on your brackets, and I need to ask, how do you like the 383? Flying B, that AC system is so darn stealth I thought it was power steering at first glance. Super tiny and non-obtrusive. Is it a special kit? Thanks, guys.
Randy, very,, very good point on the traffic conditions of today vs 'Route 66' days. Night and day in most urban areas. Thanks for the details on your brackets, and I need to ask, how do you like the 383? Flying B, that AC system is so darn stealth I thought it was power steering at first glance. Super tiny and non-obtrusive. Is it a special kit? Thanks, guys.
My A/C is from Classic Auto Air. Painting all the A/C parts Low gloss black engine paint from Duplicolor.
The 215 degrees was running at 70 mph with A/C on in Carlsbad area.
Randy, very,, very good point on the traffic conditions of today vs 'Route 66' days. Night and day in most urban areas. Thanks for the details on your brackets, and I need to ask, how do you like the 383? Flying B, that AC system is so darn stealth I thought it was power steering at first glance. Super tiny and non-obtrusive. Is it a special kit? Thanks, guys.
The combination of the hp and torque from the 383 coupled with the 700R4 is amazing. If you are ever in the Orange County area send me a PM and I'll let you take it for a spin. The super low 1st gear in the transmission coupled with a 3.36 rear end gear and lock up converter/overdrive transmission is the best of the best. I have a new tach cable to install and will have RPM data at 70 miles per hour soon, but it sounds like it's just purring. As soon as you touch the throttle, the trans downshifts immediately and goes into the right gear depending on how much you get after it.
Nice install and Happy for you that you now can stay at 180 and relax.
Based on following this whole thread it sounds like the spring in the fan clutch was never fully engaging the factory fan. When fully engaged the fan will pull more cooling air than the electric. I suspect you have diagnosed it with the distance from the radiator to the fan clutch. Most are about 2 inches away from the radiator heat. They usually engage at a temp at the clutch of 180, in most cars the radiator would be 200-210 when the clutch kicks in. In your car I bet the fan clutch is not coming close to seeing 180 based on the air leaks and distance involved. Too bad we can't get an electric engagement set up for the fan clutch like they run in large Diesel Trucks. That would allow us to engage the fan when needed. Maybe one of the fan clutch companies can supply a spring that engages the clutch at 165, might solve the issue. Glad yours is finally cool, enjoy.
I had more than one fan clutch on it including a reproduction original style. I even unhooked the spring on the back of the Hayden truck fan clutch #2747 that's on it now and rotated the shaft to shut the internal valve but it made no difference at extended idle. I used the stock 17" 5 blade fan, a Spal 17" 6 blade fan, and even put an 18" 6 blade fan from a 1969 big block Camaro with A/C on it (took some doing since the C1 fan shrouds are so far out of round). Still got warm at extended idle. My Columbia Freightliner I had to tow my race rig had an electric fan clutch on it. When that thing kicked on on the grades the tree branches along side the road leaned in toward the hood. It really pulled some air. (Shameless exaggeration, of course).
I wondered if the fan clutch was so far away from the radiator that it would take a lot more heat that a normal passenger car set up to activate the fan, but bypassing the clutch spring and rotating the valve on the back ruled that out. What's amazing is, when the car would sit and idle before I installed the electric fan there was quite a bit of air flowing back of the fan when it was warm. With the electric fan on and the engine not running (so the stock fan has no effect on my test) there doesn't seem to be any more or less air flowing through the shroud or engine compartment. I guess the difference is, how close the fan is to the radiator and the fact that the air is actually being pulled through the radiator instead of around it and everywhere else. After putting it back together with the electric fan all I left on it for additional sealing is the black water pipe foam you can see on each end of the radiator itself. I also installed the lower front radiator support seals a while ago that Frankie recommended.
I know idle timing effects idle temp. So, different timing curves were tried and idle timing was adjusted in 2 degree increments from 4* BTDC all the way to 26*. All done with no luck. It runs better with more initial, though. So I'm set with a 8* vacuum can (16* at the crank) with total idle timing at 25.5* all in with vacuum can connected to manifold vacuum (not ported vacuum) and full advance at 3,500 RPM is set just short of 36*.
11-23-2015, 11:07 PM
Well, that worked out great.
