mongo6901

Hey, funny question for you guys...

I'm having a discussion with some Pontiac guys about the Indy Pace cars, specifically in this case the 78 and 86 Corvettes.

Were the 78s and 86s "stock" when they paced the race?

Does anyone know the specific modifications they had to make to actually pace the race?

Thanks.

SLVRSHRK

I don't have the link handy, but somewhere on the Internet is a scan of a magazine article detailing exactly what you are looking for. In short, here's what i remember from the article.

The cars were definitely not stock. I think there was a requirement that the Pace Car had to be able to acheive 135 MPH on the track. The 78 L-82 had a redline of 5250ish and while it could go up to that redline, that only equated to about 122MPH.

Two cars were built, one as a spare in case the first broke down on race day.

The cars were automatics, each with a hand built blueprinted Turbo 350 automatic.

L-82 block was used, but either the heads or pistons were from the 77.

Exhaust manifolds were RAMS horns, but they were the 2.5" dump, not the stock 2" dump. Exhaust was a true dual 2.5" setup. Article mentioned that removing the stock 'pancake' catalytic converter added 20hp.

There were a couple of other mods listed but they escape me. All in all, the article mentioned that the motor easily put out over 300hp net, which compared favorably to the L-82 performance option which was rated at 220 net.

If I can find the link I will post it later to the thread, it's good reading.

HamadUP

Please do! That'll be very interesting article

hunt4cleanair

wfo76

I think I remember reading that article on the 78 car being a blueprinted L82 but basically stock except for the exhaust. Not sure about the early cars, but as far as the mid 70's on, the 1986 car was the first pace car that was completely stock and unmodified mechanically and a big deal was made about this at the time. Not sure I agree with the 135 mph requirement as this would be dangerously fast in some of the pace cars especially with the trend to celebrity drivers. The pace speed is 70 mph with the speed picking up to 100 mph in turn 4 and then the pace car exits so no real need to be much above 100 mph as long as the car could get up there fairly quickly.

7T1vette

There are pace cars and then there are Pace Cars.... The cars used to actually pace the Indy 500 have NEVER been stock. They have modifications to the engines, brakes, and suspension, as well as the pace lighting and its related wiring; some also had some drag reducing farings, etc. added. The mass of "follower" cars called Pace Cars are stock cars with Indy 500 designation paint and/or lettering. These were provided to local VIP's for use during month of the race for "perks" and for promotional purposes...then sold after the fact. Then, in '78 and '86, the factory continued to pump out additional "factory" pace cars to the general public, as well. The "follower" cars have a bit more value than the general use pace cars (if they have legit documentation of being assigned to the Indy 500 program). The real Pace Car is given to the winner of the race; the back-up duplicate of the Pace Car is kept by the Indy 500 museum.

billsfan

They generally have 3 designations of Indy pace cars. At least 3 are designated as "official" pace cars, with the required modifications mentioned above. Then there are the "festival cars", which may be as many as 20 or 30, depending on the year. These are used by officials during speed week, and in the parade. After the race, these are given to top dealers, and sold as pace cars, with documentation. The remainder are called "pace car replicas" and are available to the general public thru all the dealers.

KapsSA

New years eve I took a ride down to the Indianapolis Auto Show because they had 78 Pace Car 0001 on display with the 2 08 Pace Cars. Took some pics. This is the one you see in pics with Jim Rathmans name on the door. It APPEARS completely stock, right down to the factory exhaust and catalytic converter.
Despite what others say, my OPINION was that 0001 was used simply for pre race use. Driving Rathman around the track to wave to the fans. This one is owned by GM and is part of the Heritage Collection.
The other two Pace Cars, 0002 and 0003 are owned by AL Unser and by the Indy Speedway Museum.
I stopped by the museum while I was down there to see theirs but they don't display the Pace Car collection. Person I spoke with didn't even know where they keep it .
The parade and festival cars used in 78 were Camaros and Monte Carlos.
I gotta agree that I don't see a need for the Pace Car to attain 135mph speeds. If you look at a list of recent race Pace Car drivers they're mostly actors and celebrities. I'm sure they don't want any more repeats of the 71 race!

PS, anyone know who JR Cloutier was? His name is on the other side of the Jim Rathman car.

edit: so much for OPINIONS! turbo78vair posted the facts! Thankyou.

SLVRSHRK

OK, I couldn't find the web link to the article, but I think it originally appeared in the May 1978 issue of Hot Rod magazine and was part of their VETTEMANIA giant vette section.

I found a copy for sale at:

http://www.nitroactive.net/hrmags.html

and have purchased it (because I don't want you guys to think I'm crazy ).

When it arrives I will confirm and scan the article for those who want a copy.

L82shark

PM me when it comes in, I want a copy!

mongo6901

x2 SLVRSHRK!

Thanks for all the help!

7T1vette

Most of the folks who 'work' at the Indy 500 Museum are really volunteer helpers or part-time employees. None of them ever get invited to the bowels of the museum and its restoration area (basement area), so they don't know what's down there. You would be amazed at the quantity of 500 race cars, pace cars, etc. that is being archived. Every month, a different 500 car [from bygone eras] is brought out to display in the Indy 500 restaurant; then it goes back "to sleep" and another is cycled through. The museum which the public sees has just a small fraction of what is in the "archives".

[Isn't J.R. Cloutier the world famous poker player...or do I have his initials mixed up with someone else?]

C3 4ME

I remember the 86 being a big deal becasue it was mechanically stock. It's interesting to know the 78 had only basic modifications. So what nubmer 78 pace car actually paced the race, and are you saying that one is in the Indy museum?

KapsSA

I'm assuming 0002 was the actual Pace Car and is the one owned by Al Unser. He received it for winning the race and it does mean enough to him that he still has it 30 years later! (He sold the car he got for winning the 71 race because it wasn't the actual Pace Car.)
The 3rd one, 0003(again an assumption)is the one at the Speedway Museum. Most likely the back up car.
It might be the other way around concerning the VINs. Still trying to verify.
I fellow on another site is really into this stuff and is doing a lot of research on it. We're trying to get a viewing of the Indy owned Pace Car to verify the VIN and modifications, such as the exhaust. And he's written to Unser to see if he can get some info on his.
Check out www.C3VR.com and look at the Pace Car threads in "special edition Vettes"

KapsSA

turbo78, great info! FOUR Pace Cars? Never realized they had one out there early. High VIN? Can I get your source or copies of your info. We'd realy like to put this all together. As I said, this other guy is trying to contact Al Unser(he met him but wasn't thinking at the time). He has been in touch with the curator of the Speedway museum, also. This would rule out 003. I saw 0006 on ebay a while back and no mention was made of being at Indy, tho.

Pace Car #0009

7T1vette

Heck. Maybe Al Unser lost it in a card game in Albequerque...I don't know. For the few years before he was 'resurrected' by Penske for his '86 win, he probably was in need of a few shekels on occasion.

TheSkunkWorks

To my recollection, the mandatory minimum performance requirement(s) came about after the '77 Olds pace car couldn't get out of it's own way, resulting in numerous driver complaints about the conspicuously slow start.

I had a '76 Buick Free Spirit "Pace Car" for a while. The real one had a potent Kenne-Bell turbocharged V6 among many other mods, while the production version came with a smogged to death 350 and weighed in at 4,200#. Buick didn't even bother putting the same wheels on them, so I went out and bought my own set of Western superlites (got a set for the shark too).

As for the '78 Vette PC, I thought I remembered Chevy bragging about how stock that one was...

hunt4cleanair

I would love a copy...thanks

SLVRSHRK

We got lucky! The article is in the Hot Rod magazine that I purchased and my memory was about 85% right (have to quit drinking at work so much ).

The article details the mods made to serial number 0002, the car used for the month's buildup to the race. Serial number 0001 was reserved for use on race day only and was essentially stock L-82 which had been t'thoroughly inspected' to ensure it was up to the challenge.

It's a good article that details things down to cam advance used as well as spark plugs and ignition timing.

The PDF scan of the article is 5MB, so if you want a copy, PM me your e-mail and I will forward it on to you.

-Fred

KapsSA

Fred, received the article . Interesting read. Thanks again.
Mike