Doc Sab

Hi all,
I have a 69 Vette that is apparently matching.. or maybe not.
The car has 60,000 original miles... verified by the fact that I changed the front rotors.. and they were the originals... never drilled out until I did so... and they needed replacement.

I went through the numbers.. I have a car born on April 5th 69.
The stamp pad matches the vin.
The trans is correct.
The block is a 3963512.... and I discovered was used from as early as Oct 68 through the 70 year for the 454... after much research.
My date code is J 22 9 ( I think.. as the 8 and 9 look so close... even when scratched and photographed)
Is this a car that might be ALL correct and numbers matching....? Or just a correct car and not a matching block? I understand it says Oct 22 of 69.
Could it be a dealer replacement block for a motor that went wrong early? OR could it be a block stamped late in 68 for the 69/70 cars?

I am perplexed by this... as Why would someone along the lines.. go through so much effort to make a car correct... then stop short at the block... yet getting so close it is correct.. just not date matched? Or is it?

Also.. I noticed it had 2 specific dealer upgrades that I read about in a few books( American Muscle)( that dealers sold in the parts departments... over the counters) 2 1/2 inch headers and chokeless Rochester Quadrajets for HP improvements. My car has those 2 modifications... and it makes me happy when I see period correct HP modifications. All else is left alone.

Any friendly info on the above?
Thanx

Reasonable thoughts?

joewill

Doc:
to answer your question: Simple, only the most knowledgeable look at the block casting date prior to buying a car. Most only look at the Vin derivative stamped on the block and the horsepower tag on the shift console. They ignore the other critical criteria, casting codes, casting dates, stamp pad broach marks, fonts, do the dates line up, trim tag info, other drivetrain parts pass inspection, ... all are authenticating questions..

and most 'bubba' fakers out the also do the same thing.. they restamp any old block, not caring about cast date, or even cast code.. knowing that most buyers only look at the vin derivative, at least until the buyer gets the car home and does more extensive research.

if your block is october 69 then it cannot be the original block, if your block is october 68, it would be a very early 512 block and therefor almost 6 months old before installation in your car.. and then even very suspect.


again, the reason why a faker would stop short at the block, was the difficulty in finding ( or even wanting to find ) a correctly dated block in order to take that extra step or to just find any old 512 and restamp it.. the best of the best fakers fool most of the people most of the time, and charge 4 figures to do it, while the bubba fakers only fool some of the people and charge merely 3 figures...

also, since most sellers don't know this info either.. who knows how many owners ago did this to your car..


look further.. what are the cast and date code if your heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, carb, alternator, tranny, rearend?

Faster Rat

You said the tranny was correct. Does it have the VIN derivative? If not, then even more reason to suspect your engine is a restamp.

Having buyer's remorse, or just wishing and hoping? Buying a NOM car for a NOM price is perfectly fine...and you told us before that you just wanted a big block to drive.

Mike Ward

Doc,

Original rotors may not mean the low mileage you assumed. Mine have over 130,000 and still look like new, no reason to replace them as yet.

As to the originality of the engine block, post a picture of the casting date and the stamp pad. Joewill has given you good reason to suspect a few things. The 512 was used starting in late Oct. 68 and your car was built in April. This stretches the NCRS '6 month rule' pretty tight, but it's not impossible. Are you sure it's an April build?

I'm curious about the dealer upgrades you mentioned. Never heard of a chokeless Qjet being offered by a dealer for street use, BWTFDIK.

Mike Ward

Is it this car?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...-car-help.html

Please let's not rehash the same discussion all over again.

Derrick Reynolds

Doc:

I know what you mean about the difficulty determining the difference between an 8 and a 9 on a GM cast part, as I have had this trouble myself. The bottom of a "9" is in more of a loop shape than it is in this font, and the loop almost comes all the way back around, making it look a lot like an "8". The best way I know to tell the difference, is that a GM "8" has the top "loop" slightly smaller than the bottom, and the 9 has a noticably bigger loop on top. Hope that helps.

PK

Easy Mike

There are two numbers stamped on the pad. One is the VIN derivitive; the second identifies the engine.

Post the second number.

Mike Ward

My guess is that this is the same car in the link posted above. If so here's the pad:




And my comments about it being 'questionable' still stand.

Easy Mike

Doc Sab

I am not rehashing anything, and it's a forum.. AND I am curious about the Block dating... I am not saying it IS a matching # car.. I am questioning what I see. I didn't buy it because it was gauranteed to be anything BUT a BB correct car.. Meaning.. a 427 was offered in 69 and it's in the car.. as well as side pipes being offfered in 69 and they are there.. a 4 speed offered in 69 and it is there.... sway bars offered.. and are there..a Big Block tack was offered and it's there.. etc.

The joy about owning a Vette is discovering things... and the ride.... and the sound.. It's the 4 wheel Harley. This is my 7th. with a few years between each one. This is the most fun.. as it's not so perfect I am afraid to drive it.

The build date IS April 69

The Vin Derivative.. I will look for the next time I get under the car
.
WHAT KIND A PRICE.. for a 69 BB, 4 speed, Side pipe, convertable car.. in solid 3+ condition go for?

As far as dealer counter parts... as in "AMERICAN MUSCLE" Page 46.. it describes what dealers offered BB buyers to unleash higher HP. They called it parts for the "Corvette Serious".
The adaptations were big 2.5 inch headers.. a choke free Rochester... even a bigger radiator.( my car doesn't have a bigger radiator.)

Thanx